I know somebody has gone the heads and cam route but my searching has produced little.

If I wanted to go heads and cam. Maintain a very streetable daily driver[/b] and still pick up 50-60 rwhp, is this doable. Should I go with the livernois heads or hyland. Which cam? I like many of you would really like a doug Tune with this.


Would $3000 cover parts and install? If not, what would I be looking at?

I cast my questions to the gurus of THE MUSTANG SOURCE?

 

I just ordered the Stage 2 heads from Livernois last week. After trading PMs with Mike at Livernois, I found out that they offer two versions. The Stage 1 heads with the upgraded spring and stock valve size flow right around 275 intake and 195 exhaust. The Stage 2 heads include the upgraded spring as well as Manley 1mm oversize valves. The stage 2 heads flow around 295-300 intake and 210-215 exhaust. Stage 1 are $2195, and Stage 2 are $2725. But, you get a $600 core charge credit off those prices if you send in your stock heads.

And I just decided today to pass on the cams for while. http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=673707

 

why pass? any reason? maybe you found something out thats gonna bite me in the hiney that i need to know? this morning I woke up and decided that im gonna install them myself.

and eric, $3000? not quite.

 

I think alot of people are waiting for someone to be the first. You know, the Guinea-pig. Once someone has done it and can show a cool idle and some dyno numbers, they will be finding there way in a lot of Stang's. They will one day be in my sig.
By the way. I saw a tool somewhere that let you change cams without taking the front cover off. I am searching.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperorjordan @ April 29, 2006, 2:10 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
why pass? any reason? maybe you found something out thats gonna bite me in the hiney that i need to know?[/b][/quote]

In a nutshell, the cons outweighed the pros right now. Uncertainties about daily drivability and tuning (for example, VCT, knock sensors, etc.) were key concerns. Also, we'll have more info later when other brands and grinds are on the market.

 

ok, well then, little girls, I will happily (happy at this time anyway) be the guinea pig. I am gonna do it myself, document the install, and hopefully get it dynoed soon, and forsure get some sweet videos. Somebodys gotta do it, and seeing as I want them so bad, I think im gonna go for it. Now if only Doug would hurry up and get that tune ready.....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperorjordan @ April 29, 2006, 4:10 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
why pass? any reason? maybe you found something out thats gonna bite me in the hiney that i need to know? this morning I woke up and decided that im gonna install them myself.

and eric, $3000? not quite.
[/b][/quote]


Break it down for me Jordan. Heads are around 1700 with core, cames are??? How much is install? What other parts will be necessary/wise?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eric n @ April 29, 2006, 7:36 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Break it down for me Jordan. Heads are around 1700 with core, cames are??? How much is install? What other parts will be necessary/wise?
[/b][/quote]

Cams are another $1150 including springs/retainers. Labor for the install of cams and heads is another $500-1000, if not more. But, at the end of the day, you may end up with 350-370rwhp in NA form. No added weight to the car (in particular, no added nose weight), no blower belts/oil/etc... to deal with, and fewer heat concerns if you are doing more than 1/4 mile blasts at a pop.

This is a very attractive route to take, but I start to get concerned about how the stock lower end will hold up. With ported heads and aftermarket cams, the power comes on higher in the powerband--makes it very tempting to keep your foot in it above the stock redline of 6,200...

 

so we're looking at $3500 - $3700. Not a bad way to get 360 + - rwhp. But again How will dependability be affected. If I want to kill my shortblock I could go blower for not much more. Obviously with an automatic fighting the urge to over rev is pretty much a point of programing, but will limiting reves to 6200 be highly detremental to the sought after hp increase???

I guess I'll be a girl about it and let others boldly go where my **** is hesitent to go. Carry On Jordan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(don_w @ April 29, 2006, 2:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I just ordered the Stage 2 heads from Livernois last week. After trading PMs with Mike at Livernois, I found out that they offer two versions. The Stage 1 heads with the upgraded spring and stock valve size flow right around 275 intake and 195 exhaust. The Stage 2 heads include the upgraded spring as well as Manley 1mm oversize valves. The stage 2 heads flow around 295-300 intake and 210-215 exhaust. Stage 1 are $2195, and Stage 2 are $2725. But, you get a $600 core charge credit off those prices if you send in your stock heads.

And I just decided today to pass on the cams for while. http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=673707
[/b][/quote]

Don,
Are the stage 2 heads a "blower specific" head. Just curious as to what are the differences between the two, other than the obvious, and if the stage 2 heads would be conceivable with a NA motor.

 

JPC sells their 11 sec kit for 5k

http://www.jpcracing.com/store/product_inf...roducts_id=1109

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stang9325 @ May 1, 2006, 9:08 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Don,
Are the stage 2 heads a "blower specific" head. Just curious as to what are the differences between the two, other than the obvious, and if the stage 2 heads would be conceivable with a NA motor.
[/b][/quote]

No, not blower specific as far as I know. The difference is the new larger valves.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stang9325 @ May 1, 2006, 11:08 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Don,
Are the stage 2 heads a "blower specific" head. Just curious as to what are the differences between the two, other than the obvious, and if the stage 2 heads would be conceivable with a NA motor.
[/b][/quote]

Not necessarily Blower specific, but definitely a race head in a NA application. They don't recommend these for daily drivers.

 

sorry I took so long to get back here, but Import Slaya got it about right, cams cost $700+ in labor, if you get the Comp cams for $1150 from doug which includes springs and retainers which you have to have for any of the grinds. I still am on the fence about doing it myself, becuase I just broke up with my gf whos dad has all the tools. haha, so we will see what happens.

I plan to keep my car NA and get as much as I can. I dont plan to do heads now, but later on down the road, and I want to see how Don's turn out. but with cams, and all my mods plus pulleys, I think I will be pretty much maxing out the motor with out a power adder. oh and long tubes... I dont think I will be going there until I get new heads.

 

Since you broke up with her, when we gonna see the good mustang babe pictures?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperorjordan @ May 1, 2006, 12:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>I dont plan to do heads now, but later on down the road, and I want to see how Don's turn out[/b][/quote]

I checked with Livernois today, and my heads are still on schedule to be done by the end of this week. So, assuming the shortblock machine work and assembly is done in the next couple weeks, there is a chance I might have my car back before the calendar says June. Oh, and Mike at Livernois is going to try and send me some pics of the porting work on the heads.

 

Don,
Can't wait to hear your feed back on their heads.( I'm going to be doing heads as well but I'm going to wait for winter seeing as the car will be out of commission anyway.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FordRacing @ May 2, 2006, 9:02 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Don,
Can't wait to hear your feed back on their heads.( I'm going to be doing heads as well but I'm going to wait for winter seeing as the car will be out of commission anyway.
[/b][/quote]

I'm not dissing Don or you guys, but it's not a fair comparison between Don's gains from the heads and what someone should expect from a NA application. Remember Don has the huffer and a good one at that!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wsmatau @ May 2, 2006, 11:38 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'm not dissing Don or you guys, but it's not a fair comparison between Don's gains from the heads and what someone should expect from a NA application. Remember Don has the huffer and a good one at that!
[/b][/quote]

I agree. Any dyno numbers I get won't allow anyone to compare these heads to the stock heads... even for those with blowers. There will be too many other changes on my car between the "before" and "after" to draw any conclusions. The only numbers I have seen on these is the test recently in 5.0 and Super Fords mag on a NA motor... 40rwhp and 20rwtq (note: these were the Stage 1 heads, not the Stage 2 I bought).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(don_w @ May 2, 2006, 1:24 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I agree. Any dyno numbers I get won't allow anyone to compare these heads to the stock heads... even for those with blowers. There will be too many other changes on my car between the "before" and "after" to draw any conclusions. The only numbers I have seen on these is the test recently in 5.0 and Super Fords mag on a NA motor... 40rwhp and 20rwtq (note: these were the Stage 1 heads, not the Stage 2 I bought).
[/b][/quote]

Not to be contradictory, but (Don I think you know me well enought to know when I'm making a point vice arguing for the sake of arguing) the heads only provided a 28 HP + 6 ft/lb gain....and that was on a car with an X-pipe, Pulleys, CMRC delete, and axle backs. They didn't hit the 42HP/37TQ until they added Long tubes. My point is that guys shouldn't go out and buy these heads expecting these gains on an otherwise stock mustang.

I'm really anxious to see Doug's results with a good set of cams. I think if he can develop a hefty "Torque" speced cam with these heads it will keep me happy for a while. In light of the recent troubles with the S/C and turbos I may have to "settle" for 350 -375 NA HP. But that should best any stock 'vette short of a C6 Z06. And that will keep me happy until I run into my neighbor with the Viper....lol.