TOOOO much boost.....
#61
Is it any mystery why Ford chose the iron truck block for the previous generation Cobra and now for the GT500 and why Saleen limits its production cars to 4.5 psi? Every modern engine has a certain amount of "overengineering" to allow it to live under the most strenuous conditions anticipated. The 4.6 3V comes with 300 bhp and appears to have a margin of safety of about 50%, ie. about 450 bhp. The closer you push it to that limit the less margin for error. If you want more than that you probably need to spend the money and buy a Shelby.
#62
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Yes because iron blocks are so much stronger. Please explain why the Ford GT has an aluminum block then? The GT shortblock has been pushed to 1400+ rwhp and it only failed at that point because the crank snapped in half. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post.
#63
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Yes because iron blocks are so much stronger. Please explain why the Ford GT has an aluminum block then? The GT shortblock has been pushed to 1400+ rwhp and it only failed at that point because the crank snapped in half. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post.
#64
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No blower here, but when the time comes all I want it 420 rwhp. Hell at 300 rwhp now Im keeping up with guys with a 100 shot or FI.
Riskin blowing a motor over .5 or so in the 1/4 is not worth it to me.
Riskin blowing a motor over .5 or so in the 1/4 is not worth it to me.
#65
Note this exerpt taken from Sean Hyland Motorsports: The production aluminum block is rated for 600 hp while the production iron block is good for 700 hp.
COBRA 5.0L STROKER SHORTBLOCK (96-01 MUSTANG COBRA)
PN 78700- Production SVT Cobra Aluminum Block
- 600 HP capable
- NEW Forged Steel Stroker Crankshaft
- Manley I Beam Connecting Rods
- Manley Forged Pistons (2618 high strength material)
- HD Molybdenum Steel Piston Rings
- ARP Race Main Bolts
- FM Race Main and Rod Bearings
$4595 Exchange**
Optional Components
- HO Oil Pump w/Pick Up Tube and windage tray- $95
- HO Oil Pump w/Pick Up Tube, windage tray and Billet Oil Pump Gears - $395
- Dowels, Pins, Rear Cover and oil seal $120
5.4L IRON BLOCK SHORTBLOCK (96-08 Ford F-Series 2V/3V/4V (SVT Lightning), Shelby GT500)
PN 83000E- New 2004 Windsor Iron Block
- 700 HP capable
- Forged Steel 5.4L Crankshaft
- Manley H Beam Connecting Rods
- Manley Forged Pistons (2618 high strength material)
- HD Molybdenum Steel Piston Rings
- ARP Main Bolts
- FM Main and Rod Bearings
COBRA 5.0L STROKER SHORTBLOCK (96-01 MUSTANG COBRA)
PN 78700- Production SVT Cobra Aluminum Block
- 600 HP capable
- NEW Forged Steel Stroker Crankshaft
- Manley I Beam Connecting Rods
- Manley Forged Pistons (2618 high strength material)
- HD Molybdenum Steel Piston Rings
- ARP Race Main Bolts
- FM Race Main and Rod Bearings
$4595 Exchange**
Optional Components
- HO Oil Pump w/Pick Up Tube and windage tray- $95
- HO Oil Pump w/Pick Up Tube, windage tray and Billet Oil Pump Gears - $395
- Dowels, Pins, Rear Cover and oil seal $120
5.4L IRON BLOCK SHORTBLOCK (96-08 Ford F-Series 2V/3V/4V (SVT Lightning), Shelby GT500)
PN 83000E- New 2004 Windsor Iron Block
- 700 HP capable
- Forged Steel 5.4L Crankshaft
- Manley H Beam Connecting Rods
- Manley Forged Pistons (2618 high strength material)
- HD Molybdenum Steel Piston Rings
- ARP Main Bolts
- FM Main and Rod Bearings
#66
Here's a clue:
IT'S THE TUNE THAT MATTERS NOT THE HORSEPOWER NUMBERS
I'm suprised none of the "pros" that you've talked to have told you that. I'd be sceptical of anyone that preaches 450rwhp or bust.
Been there done that. Infact I'm pretty sure this section is dedicated to the fact that I am, indeed, awesome.
#67
The blocks themselves are not limiting the hp numbers. I don't believe there's record of an aluminum teksid block failing at this point. It's a VERY rare occurance that the physical block actually fails on these cars. Only ones I've heard of were some of the stock 302's from the fox body era warping and giving out on high boost applications.
#68
You can run leaner, with more spark, at the expense of boost on a given fuel octane, and still not detonate. You can increase boost, if you run richer and/or run less total timing. Oddly enough, BOTH solutions generate approximately the SAME HP levels. Do you REALLY think that Whipple would sell a 600HP blower, but just call it a 500HP blower because they thought it would be fun? No. On the stock bottom end, that's about all you can push (tune factor+boost factor) before you start getting hate mail from the customers with the "weaker" engines (low end of the standard deviation curve) that popped. A forged bottom end allows for more aggressive tuning because the components are physically stronger and can tolerate higher pressure levels. A small amount of detonation that might be shrugged off by a forged assembly could shatter the rods in a stock bottom end.
Now, let's take a look at what you've contributed to this thread...
POST #51:
It's funny how most of the guys in this thread preaching against boost and staying below 450rwhp don't have any form of FI on their car. Why would you listen to anyone who has ZERO personal experience with forced induction on these cars? I should go start a "which oil is best?" thread so we can clear the morons out of this thread.
POST #56
Oh that's nothing. Just ask if it's ok to use 5w30 in a 3V and all hell will break loose. This forum is full of chemical engineers that know every in and out of oil, you have to be extra careful what you say.
POST #59
Yes because iron blocks are so much stronger. Please explain why the Ford GT has an aluminum block then? The GT shortblock has been pushed to 1400+ rwhp and it only failed at that point because the crank snapped in half. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post.
POST #66
So that makes you a pro too. Again, zero personal experience.
Here's a clue:
IT'S THE TUNE THAT MATTERS NOT THE HORSEPOWER NUMBERS
I'm suprised none of the "pros" that you've talked to have told you that. I'd be sceptical of anyone that preaches 450rwhp or bust.
Here's a clue:
IT'S THE TUNE THAT MATTERS NOT THE HORSEPOWER NUMBERS
I'm suprised none of the "pros" that you've talked to have told you that. I'd be sceptical of anyone that preaches 450rwhp or bust.
POST #67
The blocks themselves are not limiting the hp numbers. I don't believe there's record of an aluminum teksid block failing at this point. It's a VERY rare occurance that the physical block actually fails on these cars. Only ones I've heard of were some of the stock 302's from the fox body era warping and giving out on high boost applications.
So far, five posts, four containing ZERO information, just insults, with nothing to back you up besides your own inflated sense of self-worth, and then one final post with some actual usable information. So as far as I can see, you're 80%
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Been there done that. Infact I'm pretty sure this section is dedicated to the fact that I am, indeed, awesome.
#69
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So lets take it outside........................................... .to the track.
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#72
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#73
The blocks themselves are not limiting the hp numbers. I don't believe there's record of an aluminum teksid block failing at this point. It's a VERY rare occurance that the physical block actually fails on these cars. Only ones I've heard of were some of the stock 302's from the fox body era warping and giving out on high boost applications.
Although not part of my sig, I had a 94 Supra Turbo that I personally tuned, via an AEM programable ems, to 635 rwhp with help from a methanol injection system, also controlled by the ems. Unlike you I am neither a pro nor a narcisist, but I do have some level of automotive knowledge.
#74
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Not to get into you guy's ****ing match, but you DO realize that you are quoting magazine writers??? Not always the best source for technical excellence. Heck, given some of the crap I have read in assorted Mustang mags, not even the simple truth...
Oh, and the block in the s197 isn't the same block as the aluminum blocks used on the two and four valve engines. Different beast. Different issues.
Oh, and the block in the s197 isn't the same block as the aluminum blocks used on the two and four valve engines. Different beast. Different issues.
#77
Everone knows iron blocks are stronger, no one is debating that. That doesn't mean aluminum blocks are worthless for high hp. There really isn't a reason to go for an iron block other than cost because there are aluminum blocks that can take you way over 1000rwhp.
I assume the GT could afford the aluminum block because the GT model required much less R&D and it is composed of cheaper parts. The GT doesn't have forged internals, bigger fuel pumps, a supercharger, on and on and on. Plus the weight saved on the higher sales volume GT means better gas mileage which helps Ford fight the ecoterrorists one more day.
And by the way, quoting car magazines like car and driver for technical info is not exactly the best route to go to prove a point. Though they happen to have found the truth by some kind of blind *** luck in your quote.
I assume the GT could afford the aluminum block because the GT model required much less R&D and it is composed of cheaper parts. The GT doesn't have forged internals, bigger fuel pumps, a supercharger, on and on and on. Plus the weight saved on the higher sales volume GT means better gas mileage which helps Ford fight the ecoterrorists one more day.
And by the way, quoting car magazines like car and driver for technical info is not exactly the best route to go to prove a point. Though they happen to have found the truth by some kind of blind *** luck in your quote.
#80
Car and Driver:
"So it took an extensive development program to produce the 2003 SVT Mustang Cobra, during which it was decided to base the engine on a cast-iron version of the 4.6-liter V-8's block. As in the SVT F-150 Lightning pickup, the iron block promises better durability in the heavy-duty environment of a high-torque drivetrain."
Automobile Magazine:
"The Eaton blower--similar to the one used in the SVT F-150 Lightning--is the hero of this story, but this was not a simple bolt-on application. The supercharged Cobra reverts to an iron block, which was deemed necessary to handle the higher power output."
'Nuff said.
"So it took an extensive development program to produce the 2003 SVT Mustang Cobra, during which it was decided to base the engine on a cast-iron version of the 4.6-liter V-8's block. As in the SVT F-150 Lightning pickup, the iron block promises better durability in the heavy-duty environment of a high-torque drivetrain."
Automobile Magazine:
"The Eaton blower--similar to the one used in the SVT F-150 Lightning--is the hero of this story, but this was not a simple bolt-on application. The supercharged Cobra reverts to an iron block, which was deemed necessary to handle the higher power output."
'Nuff said.