JonW

Those of you that take your car to the road course, I have some questions for you. I just added BMR sway bars, CHE upper and lower control arms, and a CHE K-member brace with torque limiters to my car. The improvement in handling and body stiffness is impressive. Next up is a set of Carroll Shelby 18x9 wheels with Goodyear F1 DS-G3 rubber.

I plan on taking my car to the track two or three times a year. It is not a DD. I'll probably add a strut tower brace for looks if nothing else. Should I add a panhard rod or rear shock brace? At what point does it become overkill for what I plan to use the car for? Any other mods I should make?

shaun_beauchamp

Springs, shocks and struts, Adj. Panhard bar and your there. If you thought the sway bars helped, put a set of Steeda Sports on it with some Tokico D-Specs!

JonW

I don't want to lower the car. You think a panhard bar would be a noticeable improvement? I'll probably do the Tokico shocks at some point.

shaun_beauchamp

You can get performance springs that lower the car a maximum of .75" so it is virtually unnoticed and the ride is greatly improved. The Competion Springs lowered my car 1". It's not too low. I have a CDC Aggressive Chin Spoiler and haven't scraped yet.

I "didn't want to lower my car" either, but I fought it for two years and finally gave in once I drove a friends. You'll kick yourself later.

RobK

If you want to receive any benefit from all the mods you've already done your going to need to do the springs and shocks/struts. The stock springs and struts are way too soft for track duty. Don't forget this is a heavy car with a lot of weight to toss around. Don't worry, you won't regret it.

Glenn

a car thats not lowered will lose every time to a car that is lowered...imo I feel it made a big difference in my car.

05BlackGT

How far should you go? How much money do you want to spend?

Are you just having fun or competing? Springs, shocks, tires and alignment are the basics. Everything else is for fine tuning or durability and won't significantly improve your times.

JonW

I'm in it for fun. I want the car to respond well, be able to cope with the rigors of the track with minimal wear and tear, and not be too embarrassed by my lap times. I know the Porsches are going to beat me, I just don't want any other Mustangs to beat me.

05blackGT, I don't disagree with your statement, but I don't totally agree, either. The BMR sway bars, and the CHE chassis components I've already installed have made a huge difference in the way the car corners, and in the stiffness of the chassis. The car is much more solid and much more composed now. To do springs, shocks, and tires, and not stiffen up the chassis, would be a mistake. Even on a non-competition car.

WayneA

I hope this isn’t off topic but you could go with a coil-over setup, way overkill for only setting ride height when you’re on the street. The point is how much you want to spend and what the car will be used for. I’ve been thinking about this for a month now since I got my GT.

I was going to do a coil-over setup then I heard about the Griggs SLA kit for $6,800 and started saving. Now I’m rethinking it. For about $1200 I can get Tokico shocks/struts, Steeda Sport Springs, a set of GC camber/caster plates and an adjustable Panhard Bar. After a while with time in the seat I can get the parts I need to improve my times.

One thing I believe is that some parts are “race only” and not meant for street use. Not because of NVH but because they will fail under normal street use. Make sure what you install can handle street abuse.

WayneA

Bummer, GC plates only work with a 2 1/2 inch spring, Looks like K-Mac or Steeda. Nothing from MM yet.

MooStang05gt

Jon...

All things being equal between cars, a car that has been lowered with shorter, heavier rate springs and upgraded shocks and struts to match will out perform you at the track and on the street.

How far you go depends on budget and how bad you want to be the fastest mustang on the track..

For someone who wants to go to the track 2-4 times a year (just for fun) and be competitive with other cars at the track... these are the minimum mods I would install on my car...

+ Boxed sub-frame connectors. (BMR)
++ You already have upgraded LCA's & UCA. One or the other should be adjustable. To allow for pinion angle correction.
+ LCA relocation bracket.
+ Lowering Springs 1.0 - 1.5" (Eibach, H&R, Tokico, Steeda, etc.)
+ Shocks & struts (Tokico D-Spec, FFRP, Koni, KW, etc.)
* Eibach, Tokico, Steeda, Ground Control, H&R and KW all have Coil-over kits for the new mustang. That would be the way to go for a couple hundred over a spring and shock setup.
+ Adjustable Panhard Bar. To keep the rear axle centered
+ Panhard Bar HD brace.
++ You already have upgraded sway bars.
+ Hawk performance brake pads.
+ Slotted rotors... after the OEM's wear out.
+ Stainless Steel Brake lines.
+ Bump Steer kit wouldn't hurt either.

I may have forgotten something here, but you get the idea.

Bobby M.

RobK

Don't sell yourself short with the Porshes! My Z/28 which was a hefty 3,550 lbs. wet would smoke Porsches all day long. A HUGE component in the equation is the tires. The another biggie for fast lap times is hefty brakes. The biggest factor in the equation is the driver. I would actually suggest that you hone your skills with your car as is, on street tires for a couple months/years before you decide where you want to go next. You'll learn a lot more about technique dealing with a car that wants to go skating off the track at every turn vs. a car that's hooked up like there's no tomorrow. Once you get dialed in start improving the car. I once instructed (private company, BMW club, Porsche club) with a guy that drove a VW rabbit on track. Yes, a Rabbit with MAYBE 150 horses and he would smoke just about everyone he encountered. He had mastered the concept of momentum conservation and could turn some seriously fast lap times. So, get some laps under your belt THEN think about the car.

As an aside, some folks overmod their cars before they ever turn a single lap on-track. When you do this you can get away with murder because the car is so good. Unfortunately, the moment you step over the edge you'll run out of talent real fast and be off into the weeds because you'll be experiencing all sorts of things you missed because your car was so well hooked out of the gate.

JonW

Now I think we're getting somewhere with this thread

My plan right now is to add torque box braces and an adjustable panhard bar with brace to my current mods. Tomorrow, I get 18x9 wheels and Goodyear F1 GS-D3 tires. In the fall I will add Tokico shocks, so I can have a nice ride on the 4 hour drive to the track, then adjust them for the track once I get there. Over the winter or in the spring, I'll do a brake upgrade. Then I'll head for the track when they open in the spring.

Then I'll take stock of the car and my driving ability, and make a decision on how far I want to take this and if I want to go with the lowering springs or not. I may find that I'm having fun at the level I'm at, or I may find that I want to move to the next level.

Import-Slaya

Springs, springs, springs. I know you don't want "lowering" springs, so start calling them performance springs. Seriously, I have the Eibach Prokits, which lower the car about 1" up front and 1.25" in the rear. It is actually a fairly subtle change to the stance of the car and the difference in handling is the most noticable modification you will make to your car (unless you get a supercharger).

Think of springs as part of the platform. Yes, you want a stiff chassis, but you also need springs to match if you want improved handling. Swaybars, chassis stiffening, control arms, etc... do make a noticable improvement over stock. However, this improvement is incremental compared to upgrading your springs.

Since you are concerned about ride comfort and going too low, just get the Steeda Ultralight springs. 0.75" is not really that noticable from a looks perspective, and they give a reasonably comfortable ride even with the stock struts/shocks from all accounts I've seen.

And a big +1 on the Tokicos.

WayneA

Am I missing something? When you say road course, Autocross, Time Trial or anything involving road racing you car, you are put into a class. The more mods you install the harder the class is regardless of your driving ability/experience. Think before you modify the stock car. If you change something that puts you in a class you’re not completive in, what’s the sense of the mod? I started Autocrossing with a Lotus after installing an aftermarket electronic boost controller, aluminum flywheel, Kevlar clutch and LSD. I got put into Modified, no fun for a beginner. Needles to say I never won anything. Why install a rear lower control arm if that puts you into Prepared E with an otherwise stock car. Below is what I just got from reading the SCCA Solo rulebook.

Stock F (SF) – Stock Class, only mod I did to keep it in SF was change the muffler. Other mods are allowed like front anti-roll bar, but not rear.

Street Touring (STX) – Not understanding 14.8, I know you can change the strut/shock but what about the springs? Can anyone help on this? You can also change the rear sway-bar

Street Prepared E – Lots of mods, wheels, tires, coil-over, larger calipers, control arms, engine, remove emissions and lots of other things. I think anyone with a CAI will fall in this class, even if that’s the only mod you did. For anyone Autocrossing the prepared class is not for the beginner. No additional sub-frame connectors or solid metal bushings.

Street Modified (SM) – Chassis mods, steering mods, hoods??? You mean to tell me if I remove the stock hood I will get put into SM???? Wow

Modified (MD in my case) – Aftermarket turbos & superchargers or messing with boost on stock turbos or superchargers. You can do just about anything to you car.

I never got out of Modified with the Lotus so I never cared about mods or the other classes. With the Mustang it will be different. If anyone can expand please do.

-Wayne

JonW

The track I go to has kind of an all-purpose High Speed Touring class. It's a class for novices and for those that just want to have some fun. You can move up from that class if you choose to do so. These are not sactioned events, just fun events. They do have sactioned events (including SCCA) if you want to go that way, and then I suspect the classes you listed would apply.

MooStang05gt

Wayne... you are right about any mod can/will change your class for sanctioned events..

I'm an old road racer from the late 60's & early 70's in SCCA AS class. All of my racers were mustangs. From the very beginning with my 67 GT, I liked modifying my stangs..

Since I like my cars to be 'handlers' more than 'go fasters', I always impove the chassis and suspension first. I have driven a bone stock mustang (96 GT) on a road course and I didn't like it at all. First of all, you could never tell what the car was going to do next. Of course, I have been spoiled by having mustangs that were full competition modified. And, for that reason, there are just certain mod that need to be made before taking to the track.. There isn't anything more frustrating than trying to go fast with an unpredictable car.. not real safe either.

These S-197 mustangs are far superior in handling performance than the earlier models.... Unless I were going for a Street Stock class where no mods were allowed, I would still make the car perform where it is more predictable than what a stock chassis affords.

This is why my mustang has a complete BMR suspension, FRPP Stg 3 Dampers, Ground Control Coil-over Conversion with Eibach Sport Springs, Strut Tower Brace and an MGW shifter. These are the mods I installed for primarily street use. Some time in the future I would like to upgrade the brake pads & rotors and install SS brake lines.

I just like to know that my car is going stick to the road when I take her out and I will be able to feel what's going on through the seat of my pants. That's what I have with my car now...

Just my own little quirk...

Bobby M.

WayneA

I always did Autocrosses for fun, but everyone I ever went to used SCCA classes. If you just want to drive and have fun (always being beat) then just go and have fun. After 2 years of always losing my class, it got on my nerves and I stopped going. Now I'm back with a FS Mustang as apposed to a DM Lotus.

We're getting a real road race track here in NJ next year...I can't wait. All you tri-state people check it out...

http://www.njmotorsportspark.com/htm..._circuits.html

RobK

He's not referring to a sanctioned race, he's referring to an open track event. There a hundreds of tracks across the country, most of which have open lapping days as well as high performance driving schools. If they do any segregation at all it's based on driver experience/skill level and not the car. It's the best way possible to hone your skills and learn to drive your street car at its limits.

RadBOSS

Jon

For a modified street machine the K-brace would have been near the end of my list of things to change. It probably stiffened the body a bit, but unless you have done some skid pad or track testing against a watch, your perceived performance improvement is subjective at best.

Each mod and performance gain or loss needs to be determined objectively. So do one at a time to figure out if you got a gain or not. If you do 5 things at once, there is no way to evaluate objectively what got better or not.

If you are staying at stock height, the sway bar addition is a good bet as long as you are doing the front and the rear. Some Tokio D-Spec's would be a definite improvement over the stock shocks.

Get the alignment checked and go for a symmetrical set up on caster, camber and toe. Without changing the upper mount for the strut you are pretty much locked in on caster, but with eccentric bolts for the strut to spindle mount you have some control on camber setting. So an adjustable camber / caster plate should be on your shopping list.

Adjustable panhard bar ... only needed to correct axle offset (lowered or not). Is you rear axle off set? Sheet metal measurement may not be accurate enough. A good alignment machine can verify the rear axle alignment.

If you cave in to lowering temptation / recommendation there are some other things that need to be done to correct front roll center, rear axle instant center and pinion angle.

Since you are not lowering, the next area needing attention is the brakes. If you are staying factory calipers, get some good pads and some slotted rotors.

Next up are tires. The 18" wheels are nice, but there is plenty of excellent 17" rubber out there. And if you are a novice, it’s likely you won't be able to appreciate the difference until you have really honed your skills.

There are a lot of other things you can do, some beneficial and some not. Focus in on the basics and you will get more cluck for you buck.

And as for these other low riders out there, cornering better, unless you correct a few other things, I doubt they corner any better than a well prepared car at stock ride height.

And one other piece of wisdom ... the driver makes the car, not the other way around.

Based on your question and statement, that’s my 2 cents.