<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sodaman @ May 2, 2006, 6:28 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
http://www.alternativeauto.com/prodserv/05...ch-alcohol.html
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Quote from the link:

We have a saying at our shop “Boost doesn’t break stock mustang pistons, poor tuning and a lack of octane does!”

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ May 2, 2006, 4:47 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Quote from the link:

We have a saying at our shop “Boost doesn’t break stock mustang pistons, poor tuning and a lack of octane does!”
[/b][/quote]

Which is why I add 10 gallons of 91 octane, then top it off with no less than 3 gallons of 100 octane.. LOL! Doing it this way, she never makes a peep around 6000rpm and 10.5psi of boost.. She just pulls up hard and fast...

So Max200Jp, you think someone was making a dyno pull with an octane level not sufficient for boost? You think someone's low octane, or cheap gasoline detonated at 5 or 6psi and 4500rpm?

I have to admit, this is a darn good excuse.. Max2000Jp always presents good arguments when he wants to, which is why I try and avoid debating with him..

So this could be a valid explanation of what happen.. I know I never put any gas in my car, unless it is also mixed with 100 octane..

Nice come back max.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

@94Tbird

Your next task is to find a gas station which does sell 100octane gas.. Its a must if your running boost.. Fill up the tank, and leave room for atleast 2 gallons of 100octane.. I normally put atleast 3, so my mind is at ease while the car is in the 6000rpm range.. I think you will be ok with the KB you want, just find a good station who can supply you with good gas..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(70MACH1OWNER @ May 2, 2006, 5:16 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Hey Mike,
I do believe you are somewhat correct in your thoughts that the juice puts differents pressures on our engines than a SC'er or the turbo's. However, I have said it before in other threads that the rods and pistons in these engines are inherently the weak spots and got flamed pretty good about my opinion in the past. But, crow does not taste like chicken . I have eaten it in the past. ( Blew a 96 Cobra w/Kennebell Sc'er @ 9 lbs. of boost). Trust me crow tastes POOOOOOOOOO!
Scott [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
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Vortech ran a 4.6L 3V at 16psi... There was another guy at another forum who Don_W knows running his at 14psi for the past year.. If indeed it were the rods, then these events could not happen... 5 or 6psi and 14 to 16psi are totally different pressures on the rods.. The Vortech car made 150 dyno pulls, then ran at 16psi without issues..

This car made way less than 150 dyno pulls.. 150 dyno pulls at $100 bucks each cost $15,000... So trust that the rods never seen this much abuse..

I think Max2000Jp is closer to the truth on this one.. Guys are not using the proper octane level gas.. But they will never admit this.. They will say its the rods.. Octane can save an engine even with a bad tune..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSP @ May 2, 2006, 1:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Let loose about 4500 RPM at around 5-6 psi of boost.

This statement is what is really upsetting about it.. @ 4500RPM, one would think he is in the saftey zone.. @ 5-6psi of boost, its understood that it did not detonate not in the least.. For the first time, its easy to see how the rods are a problem.. Almost unpredictable..

My question is, why would Ford do this.. For emissions its understood they would use the type of pistons used.. But why the RODS?

The SOHC 4.0 uses the same type of pistons as the GT in terms of material but we were given forged steel rods on the other hand..

Seriously, its as if a group of engineers purposley created a problem so GT's would not be able to compete with an unrealeased car.. Perhaps a GT500? Is it possible that Ford purposley created this weak link to steer people towards the now 500HP GT500?

http://www.shadetreemechanic.com/for...2005_specs.htm

The gearing information in this link is subject to debate... However, you can see we were given forged steel rods.. I dont think it was fair Ford did this. But I am convinced it was to not allow the GT to run on par with an unreleased Mustang..
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Hey MSP,
Ford built a motor that would survive at 300 fwhp for a long time. They never promised an engine that could take the pressures of extreme boost of any kind. They have been putting powdered metal rods in modular engines since they were born in the early 90's. Long before the GT500 was ever thought of. It is just a matter of the oh mighty buck.
Scott

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(70MACH1OWNER @ May 2, 2006, 5:26 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Hey MSP,
Ford built a motor that would survive at 300 fwhp for a long time. They never promised an engine that could take the pressures of extreme boost of any kind. They have been putting powdered metal rods in modular engines since they were born in the early 90's. Long before the GT500 was ever thought of. It is just a matter of the oh mighty buck.
Scott
[/b][/quote]

Hey, did you know the 2005 Mustangs were designed to run an intercooler? I mean, under your bumper, there is space and holes for mounting an intercooler..

Probably means nothing, but to have it designed into the car from the very beginning means they intended to do something with boost..

I discovered this when installing my intercooler.. I was shocked at how the space under the bumper was designed.. There are 4 holes under your bumper which are not used.. They are for an intercooler..

 

Question guys, have anyone heard of any 6's getting blown up from JUICE or BLOWER action? Just a curious thought.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Torrence @ May 2, 2006, 5:50 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>


Question guys, have anyone heard of any 6's getting blown up from JUICE or BLOWER action? Just a curious thought.
[/b][/quote]


No, Scrming hurt his squeezing too soon with a 125shot.. But it didnt hurt the rods..

Mike Bowen @ Powerhouse hurt his with bad gas I think during his turbo development.. But other than that no blown V6's...

 

I got an 05 specific Zex wet system for sale, take-off from our car. Includes everything, complete system. $400.00 plus shipping. We need money for our new short block.
Derek

 

hehehe, I dont even want to waste my time with my "superior" nitrous and nitrous vs forced induction knowledge... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

-Dan

 

Hey 94Tbird, Congrats on ordering the KB kit.. My advice is dont get greedy.. Just use the kit stock, as it comes out of the box.. Dont increase the boost, and use the tune supplied by KenneBell.. Do not allow anyone to alter the stock tune, and find a good gas station..

You can either listen to my advice today, or I'll remind you once your thread is created about a busted motor.. Dont get greedy, use the darn kit the way it comes out of the box and dont let anyone mess with it.. 8psi of boost is all you need..

Some may say I should follow my own advice.. However, my engine can handle up to 14psi no problem.. My rods are steel, and so is my block.. I can get alittle greedy.. But your engine is alittle softer than mine materials wise.. I like the fact that I have an Iron block, and steel rods..


Your motor is good, and can handle boost, but the materials used make it much more fragile.. So the tune is so vitally important in your case.. You do not have much room for error..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Torrence @ May 2, 2006, 5:50 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Question guys, have anyone heard of any 6's getting blown up from JUICE or BLOWER action? Just a curious thought.
[/b][/quote]


Here is a new popped 4.0L Torrence.. Looking at his piston, he was using low octane gasoline.. As you can see, the rods held up.. In a GT the rods would have went through the side of the block.. In the V6, the steel rods make the piston eat the detonation..

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...ad.php?t=58339

Here is his web page...

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2061207%22%5...om/ride/2061207

The damage we see here is a result of low octane levels.. The best thing is, the rods saved the block...

Max2000JP's comment about octane levels is much closer to the truth than anyone here..


Let this be a lesson to all of us.. I know gas prices are through the roof right now, but dont sacrifice on octane levels to save a few pennies... Dont do it!!

 

Yep, have fun mag and bench racing guys, Im going to work.

-Dan

 

i tend to think that blown cars get on the throttle a lot (i know i do and im NA), and having boost on hand puts extra force on the rods all the time. with nitrous, its only shot once in a while, and ideally only at the track (though i know everyone does it on the street once in a while).

also consider than many SC cars are putting down 425ish rwhp. stock the cars put down about 275rwhp. i may be reaching for something here, but remind me of the last person on the forums to run a 150shot of nitrous, on the streets, every day...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cleveland @ May 3, 2006, 1:32 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Yep, have fun mag and bench racing guys, Im going to work.

-Dan
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Dan, I don't know if it's me or what, but I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on considering your 1/4 times. For all that you've done to your car with the nitrous setup and the self proclaimed nitrous guru mentality, you should be running faster than all the other nitrous guys. If drag racing isn't your thing, than you should be posting about your nitrous stuff in the appearance sections of all the forums. Don't be mad b/c of what I've stated here. You've brought this on yourself. Take a look at your posts. Your way is the only way, everyone else is incorrect. You start a thread and shoot everyone down that provides input in YOUR thread. You post this here (above) like everyone else is a pee-on. Yes, you've managed to put some things together as far as nitrous, but NO, you do not have my respect with it's function/purpose/1/4 miles times. I doubt you aim for my respect either. Not that I'm the attitude police or a moderator (not that the two are the same), but man, I'm at the point of not even reading your posts b/c it's either negative or Dan's way. In another forum, a supporting Vendor posts about a new nitrous product and you immediately bash the product claiming what you have is better. The supporting Vendors allow you the opportunity to post about your system. Let some others post first and then offer an alternative if the opportunity arrises. You can either see this post as a suggestions/observation or as me bashing you.....and i'm not bashing or trying to start you up.

 

I should stay out of this, but I can't help myself. The nitrous guys keep saying that a blower is on boost all the time, and that just isn't true. My Saleen and most other blowers (Roush and probably KB) have a vaacum-controlled by-pass, so the blower is off boost untill you lean on it. When you hit the gas, engine vaacum drops, the by-pass closes and the boost comes up. The engine is not under extra stress until you want it to be.
At half throttle, my car is too fast for city streets, so I choose carefully when I want to play. With 4psi boost & 285 rear tires, I have 2nd gear traction problems.
Mine will never be a low 12 second car....I don't need it or want it. Visits to the dragstrip are fun, & I enjoy meeting friends there...but one hour+ lines between runs are not my thing. I respect you guys with really fast cars, and I learn from you. I also know BS when I see it.

 

yup.

-Dan

 

Too bad I wasn't still in university, I could make a thesis topic to explore the limits of the bottom end of this motor.

Question for the guys who have been around MOD motors for a long time, what are the limits for a stock 4.6 bottom end? were the 2V's stronger? What about the Mach1/96-01 Cobra motors? I know the terminators are top dog in this dept. Just wondering how much the other motors could handle safely. I'll admit, although I am a gearhead, I've never really done a lot of homework on the new motors.

 

I'm no expert by any stretch, but I know a lot of 2V guys complain that they are stuck with the same rod/piston issues we have. As far as the 96-01 Cobras, I think they all had forged cranks, but not forged pistons/rods. But, the 96-99 Cobras also were blessed with the Teksid block, which is considered to be the epitome of 4.6L blocks (both light and strong).

 

It seems to me that the weak link in the bottom end are the rods & pistons. Even the cast crank seems to hold up fairly well from what i've been reading.

Hopefully all their R&D money is being allocated into the hurricane motor

 

On the 2v, 400rwhp seems to be the consensus safe limit--plenty have gone higher with better intake/exhaust setups, though (using cars done by MPH, for example). Mach I's are in the 430-450rwhp limit. The Mach's rods and pistons are similar to ours (although we probably have weaker pistons due to the larger valve reliefs/ring land issue). The Mach's do have a forged crank in the manuals, although the cast crank usually isn't the limiting factor.

Seems like 400-450rwhp is the logical limit for our bottom end with a good tune, which is probably why we keep seeing the 425rwhp number tossed around so much. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]