The List of Expired Engines in the Supercharged or turbo is getting Big. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]
Still No Nitrous Losses [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banana.gif[/img]

Rods Cant Handle much Boost.But you Can Just about get into the Tens with NOS on the stock Motor.

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/2005-mu...ines-50665.html

 

hmm... I can take a good guess who this is pointed at [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/stickpoke.gif[/img]

 

I would say the major difference between the two would be more heat for the blower cars, and the fact that more people are running blowers than NOS. Same with turbos - not very many people with them yet and so far only one that I know of failing.

Here's what they all say just before they blow up:

"It's all in the tune".

 

tune my hiney

boost is boost and over 400 RWHP isn't happening without danger

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ May 2, 2006, 9:31 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
tune my hiney

boost is boost and over 400 RWHP isn't happening without danger
[/b][/quote]

I disagree. The engines that have blown recently had questionable tunes. The guys that have taken baby steps tune wise are able to push the power limits reliably so far.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ May 2, 2006, 7:38 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I disagree. The engines that have blown recently had questionable tunes. The guys that have taken baby steps tune wise are able to push the power limits reliably so far.
[/b][/quote]

This is the award winner for blatantly incorrect statements. Congrats.

 

We can all agree that the rods and pistons are the weak link on these motors.

Too much spray, and a nitrous'd motor will also grenade

 

Yeah but motors running the 125 shot at 425 RWHP are still on the road

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ May 2, 2006, 11:17 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Yeah but motors running the 125 shot at 425 RWHP are still on the road
[/b][/quote]


Won't they wear faster over time from being on the sauce?

 

mikem, you have made your opinion clear on many threads and topics now. we understand your concerns however we are all capable of making our own choices. Boost is boost whether its a turbo, supercharger, or NOS. it all boils down to the same thing. you are forcing the engine to take stress and load that it was not designed to take. now maybe NOS can be considered safer because it is not always spraying while a turbo charger or supercharger is always worknig, at idle or whatever, continually spinnig. That is a fact, however once you surpass 400-450 hp no matter how you get there you will have problems. maybe not at first but you will and you are running on borrowed time. Give the NOS guys time to catch up and keep spraying all the time, they will eventually throw a rod with too much boost as well. some parts degrade over time. the rods with the extra stress will also degrade over time. because the rods are continually under extra load with a supercharger or turbo, they may go quicker. As for the fact that its all in the tune, that is 100% correct till a point. that point is the 400-450hp range. It is not true if i try to run 700hp on stock internals. no tune will save you there. all in all, lay off the turbos and superchargers man, to each his own.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(94tbird @ May 2, 2006, 10:35 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
now maybe NOS can be considered safer because it is not always spraying while a turbo charger or supercharger is always worknig, at idle or whatever, continually spinnig. [/b][/quote]

Yeah that seems to be a major point to me as well.....

I don't see that many people sparying from stoplight to stoplight.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(94tbird @ May 2, 2006, 9:35 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>Give the NOS guys time to catch up and keep spraying all the time, they will eventually throw a rod with too much boost as well.[/b][/quote]
I agree with this alone, give me time and I will blow it up.

-Dan

 

Hey guys-

I'm the first to admit that I have no first hand experience. But, doesn't nitrous run much cooler than the supercharger or turbo setup? I believe that there have been people running a 50 shot or so of nitrous along with a blower, with the intention of just helping to cool the intake charge. It makes perfect sense to say that a rod or whatever is going to break at a certain power range no matter what power adder is being used, but I would have to think that limiting or atleast reducing the amount of heat generated from the boost is worth something in relation to the engine's lifespan.

 

Let loose about 4500 RPM at around 5-6 psi of boost.

This statement is what is really upsetting about it.. @ 4500RPM, one would think he is in the saftey zone.. @ 5-6psi of boost, its understood that it did not detonate not in the least.. For the first time, its easy to see how the rods are a problem.. Almost unpredictable..

My question is, why would Ford do this.. For emissions its understood they would use the type of pistons used.. But why the RODS?

The SOHC 4.0 uses the same type of pistons as the GT in terms of material but we were given forged steel rods on the other hand..

Seriously, its as if a group of engineers purposley created a problem so GT's would not be able to compete with an unrealeased car.. Perhaps a GT500? Is it possible that Ford purposley created this weak link to steer people towards the now 500HP GT500?

http://www.shadetreemechanic.com/for...2005_specs.htm

The gearing information in this link is subject to debate... However, you can see we were given forged steel rods.. I dont think it was fair Ford did this. But I am convinced it was to not allow the GT to run on par with an unreleased Mustang..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSP @ May 2, 2006, 12:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Let loose about 4500 RPM at around 5-6 psi of boost.

This statement is what is really upsetting about it.. @ 4500RPM, one would think he is in the saftey zone.. @ 5-6psi of boost, its understood that it did not detonate not in the least.. For the first time, its easy to see how the rods are a problem.. Almost unpredictable..

My question is, why would Ford do this.. For emissions its understood they would use the type of pistons used.. But why the RODS?

The SOHC 4.0 uses the same type of pistons as the GT in terms of material but we were given forged steel rods on the other hand..

Seriously, its as if a group of engineers purposley created a problem so GT's would not be able to compete with an unrealeased car.. Perhaps a GT500? Is it possible that Ford purposley created this weak link to steer people towards the now 500HP GT500?

I dont think it was fair Ford did this. But I am convinced it was to not allow the GT to run on par with an unreleased Mustang..
[/b][/quote]

The quick answer is that the GT is not Designed to run high HP applications. I'm willing to bet that the powdered rods are a significant savings to Ford over a forged piece. I don't know why the V6 got forged internals.
Also, you have to remember that it really does not matter where the engine let go in the RPM range (unless it is brand new). The stress has been applied in previous runs (some people are pulling to 6500+ RPM) which likely caused the failure. That repeated stress (pushing the rods way past ther designed limit) is probably what led to the failure and not the specific run where it actually failed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(don_w @ May 2, 2006, 10:08 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
This is the award winner for blatantly incorrect statements. Congrats.
[/b][/quote]

I disagree, look at the facts. No need to be a smartass.

Mike is obviously referencing the turbo car(Dhof's) that recently blew. He was running an internet tune, which is less than ideal. I wouldn't have even driven the car without taking it to a good tuner, let alone pushing it fairly hard on the street. We have a good tuner(SuttonHP) locally and I know of quite a few 05's running around boosted that are running like champs. Another great example would be JDM Engineering. Those guys know how to tune and have taken "baby" steps in order to get their tunes correct.

In any engine, a good tune goes a long way. I've got a buddy whom owns a 350Z. When the forced induction kits first came out, they were having similar problems blowing engines. After a year or so, the tuners became better at tuning cars and now my friend is at 460rwhp on the stock block. He has a 10K miles and probably 50 passes on the car. Two years ago, everyone would be saying his engine was going to blow.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wsmatau @ May 2, 2006, 12:30 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Also, you have to remember that it really does not matter where the engine let go in the RPM range (unless it is brand new). The stress has been applied in previous runs (some people are pulling to 6500+ RPM) which likely caused the failure. That repeated stress (pushing the rods way past ther designed limit) is probably what led to the failure and not the specific run where it actually failed.
[/b][/quote]

GOOD point - never even ocurred to me to remember how often the car was run on the track previously (alot if I remember right - and sprayed too??....)

 

I would tend to agree. I ran my car pretty hard... almost 300 passes at the track before the blower went on. No doubt that added wear and tear on already weak rods.

 

This is like a presidential debate

 

well I believe its in the tune, heat, and engine components. Here is an article if you havent already read it from alternative auto. Lidio is supposed to be on top of his game. He is using injected alcohol kits to bring that temp. problem down and gain some more horses. He is running at about 470hp, and claims no issues on a stock motor. Take a read if you like. Heres the link

http://www.alternativeauto.com/prodserv/05...ch-alcohol.html