ryan1112

Well, I pulled the trigger and ordered the Stoptech stage 2 brake upgrade. It's the same one that Brenspeed has. I installed the kit today which included all 4 slotted sportstop rotors, hawk brake pads, stainless brake lines and dot 4 brake fluid.

The install went fine and the quality of the Stoptech kit is great. The only problem is now I have less braking power than before. I just can't get the juice to the calipers. I went through the bleeding process several times pumping out all of the old fluid replacing it with the dot 4 until clean new fluid was coming from all 4 corners. There is now more pedal travel before braking starts, they are mooshy and I can stand on them and the brakes don't lock at all, no antilock, nothing. I even went through the bedding process twice.

I have no doubt that this is not because of the Stoptech kit, it just feels like there is air in the system but when I bleed them, the fluid comes out solid and clean. Do I need to have the system pressurized and vacummed? Has anyone else had this problem when replacing brakes?

Thanks...

classj

All I can advise is to make certain the calipers are bled properly. Start at the right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front. Make sure you keep the bleeder hose submerged in fluid at all times and make sure you shut the bleeder before telling your bleeding buddy to lift.

Even if you have some type of bleeding system, I would check it again with someones help the old fashioned way.

I actually bleed my brakes, then leave the car sit in the air overnight, then bleed again in the morning to get all the micro bubbles out.

Also, you are aware that new pads will feel spongy and exactly as you decribe till they are properly bedded? And will get better and better for the next 1000 miles or so.

classj

Oh, also. Under certain conditions, air can enter the ABS system. You either need a scan tool to cycle it and let the air out into the main system, or bleed the brakes, go for a drive and get the abs to work a bit. Then bleed, and repeat.

sodaman

well whenever I bled the brakes i never used a line submerged etc. this is for a do it yourselfer. The bestway is to have two people. Like stated start at one brake, then move to the next and so on. But have the person pump up the brakes a few times and hold them, while they are holding you open up the bleed valve and it there pedal will drop, tell them to keep pressure as it drops. Once it has dropped to the floor they hold it. You tighten the bleed screw. Then pump up a few times and hold, open bleed screw and do it all over again. as long as the person pumping understands what you are trying to acomplish and you communicate with each other. Just have to make sure the person holds it too the floor until you have retightened the bleed. Do this several times to each caliper while topping off fluid after each caliper. Keep in mind this may take a few times. But if you follow this you should be able to get the air out.

Hatchman

Sounds like you have air in the system.

I changed out my brakes with the same thing, stainlness lines, stoptech rotors, Hawk pads, Dot 4 fluid, etc. The problem is that you have air in the lines.

If you use a clear tube on the nipple, you can see the air bubbles coming out. Once there are no more air bubbles when you open the bleed nipple, your done bleeding at that wheel. Just like said before, start at the wheel that's furthest away (back right), and work closer to the master cylinder.

Here's the good news, mine felt the same way the first couple of days I drove it. I would pump the brakes a few times, and they would feel fine, but everytime I first got in it for a few days, they would be a little mushy. After a couple of days, no problem at all, hard as a rock.

Same thing when I put the clutch in, a little mushy, but after a couple of pumps it was fine. After a few days, just like normal.

The reservoir is the highest point in the system, so the air bubbles will float up there, eventually.

But I would try bleeding the brakes again, sounds like you definitely have air in the system. You don't need two people to do it, I use a breaker bar between the seat and brake pedal to hold it down while I cracked the bleeder nipple open. I used a couple of towels to make sure the bar didn't scratch or tear anything, and a power seat comes in handy. But it worked fine.

Another trick I use is to have the clear hose run into a water bottle, with a hole drilled into the top of it. Make the hole just big enough for the line to fit through, so it's a tight fit and you'll get a good seal. Put some brake fluid in the bottom of the water bottle to make sure the tip is submerged, and put the other end of the line on the bleed nipple. Now I'll crack the cap of the bottle, and squeeze the bottle so that the sides are caved in, then tighten the cap. This creates just a little bit of a vacuum on the line that will help suck the brake fluid out of the brake lines. I usually let the system gravity bleed/vacuum bleed for a few minutes (it's slow) before I do the pump and crack open method. I get four bottle with four lines, and put them on all four corners, and let them bleed while I'm finishing up the last set of brake pads. Some bottles seal better and therefore better suction than others, and I use the one with the most suction during the pump and crack the nipple bleed process. And I let the bottles dry out for several days before use to make sure there isn't any water in them, just in case it gets sucked up into the system.

Hope this helps,
Good luck!

ryan1112

Thanks, I will bleed again and keep you all informed.

sodaman

well if you want good results quickly use two people. Never had an issue, bled hundreds of brake systems. good luck

05BlackGT

Yep, what everyone is saying...air in the system. I have the same brakes and after bedding the pads, it was a noticeable braking improvment.

classj

I agree with the method and that is what I essentially meant by bleeding buddy, but submerging the line while bleeding is not "do it yourselfer" at all. Having the line above the fluid causes bubbles to be formed in the can or whatever you are using to catch the brake fluid. If you use a clear hose, and submerge the tip of the hose in a little brake fluid in the cup, you know that any air rising to the surface of the fluid in the cup came from the caliper.

Usually the above is faster for us at the shop than setting up the brake bleeding machine providing someone is around, and I believe that it usually is a better process myself.

I am not suggesting sticking the hose in a can of fluid and pumping the pedal yourself without using two people. That is seriously redneck.

RadBOSS

More pedal travel / mushy feeling = entraped air. By comparison, the brake pads are totally incompressable to the brake fluid. A few days running does not make the pads get any harder, however they do break in as they burnish temselves to the disk, hence better grip for a given pedal pressure.

scramblr

I know this is about bleeding brakes...but he did install a new set of brakes, so:




**Come on...Someone had to.

ryan1112

I figured this was coming.
I will take some pictures in the next day or so. I took some with my mechanics camera and he said that he would put them up on his site. I'll have to show before and after pics of the burn in process.

scramblr

So did you get them working O.K?

ryan1112

Yes, I bled the brakes again and they feel much better. I did another burn in as well. They is just a tad soft under moderate braking so I will bleed again next weekend (I ran out of brake fluid so I need to get some more before I bleed again). They seem to be getting better and better. I can get the antilock going now when I hit them really hard.
Thanks for the advice guys.

ryan1112

Here are a couple pictures. This is obviously after they have been bed in. I haven't wiped off the extra anti-squeel from the back of the pads and the wheels are really dirty being there is snow outside. I will get the pictures of them right when they were put on as soon as I can so you can see the brake lines.

ryan1112

Well, I have bad news. I got home today and I smelled a burning smell. I went to the passenger rear of the car and the smell was coming from that brake. There was a ton of heat coming from it and it looked like some of the pad from the bed in process was rubbed off the rotor. I could even tell when I was driving it that it was slowing just a hair more than usual when I would let the car coast.

I need to let you know a little backstory. I changed the brakes because I was hearing a hissing noise coming from the rear of the car. When I went to my mechanic to look in the pumpkin thinking maybe it was my 4.10s we noticed that the right rear brake pads were cracked and were scoring the rotor. We then thought that it was the brakes making the hissing noise and not the pumpkin, hence the new Stoptech brakes.

When I first put the brakes on I thought the sound was gone and went home for the night. The next day when I drove the car the sound was back. I thought maybe I was just excited the night before and didn't notice that the sound was still there, so I scheduled another apointment for next week with the shop to look in the pumpkin afterall.
Now tonight with the brake almost smoking, I have no idea what to do or what the sound is. I'm so ****ed that I feel like selling the car.

Any ideas on what could cause this crap?

P.S. Other than the bed in several days ago, I have had no hard braking.

scramblr

Could the caliper be defective and pushing the pad against the rotor? I understand it was doing it before you changed out the brakes, but did you retract the caliper pistons all the way when you replaced the pads? Obvious I know, just trying to work through it.

Hatchman

Sounds like you have bad caliper that is sticking. When I changed out my brake pads/rotors/lines, I saw that one of my rear calipers was leaking just a little around the piston, and it was sticking so bad that I could barelly screw the piston in with the tool, and when it finally did, it was really leaking. So, no use putting new brakes on a bad leaky/sticking caliper, so I ordered a new one.

I'd get a new caliper, sounds like it's sticking. Check the parking cable and make sure it's not tight when the handle is down.

classj

Either the pistons were not retracted properly, you have a sticky/frozen e-brake cable per the TSB on the car, or a stuck caliper.

I would get the car in the air. Verify that it is dragging by feel. Then remove the cable to see if it retracts.

If not, pull the pads, retract the piston, go for a test drive and see if that helps.

If none of that works, it is the caliper. Unless axel lube is slinging on to the rotor if the axel seal is leaking.

ryan1112

I think that its the e-brake problem per the TSB. I will be taking it in to the dealership tomorrow morning for them to look at it. I wish that they could just order the parts and let me know when they come so they could be installed without them having to verify that it's the problem. It will probably be 4 or 5 days until it's fixed. I'm glad I have access to another car for a few days.

Thanks for all of your help. I will keep you updated.