Saleen Superchargers vs. Whipple vs. Vortech
12/22/07, 11:24 PM
#124
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12/23/07, 02:56 PM
#127
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12/23/07, 03:40 PM
#128
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I gotta say I think its funny that most of the "hardcore" guys will openly swear that a TS is worlds better than a centri because of the low-end torque, but then you have to pry them open to get them to admit that most of them run drag radials with lower gears and most of them won't drive in the rain because of that torque..... that's cool but not my idea of an ideal daily driver, IMO. 
As for in the dry, the way that the power comes in makes for great traction on the street. I use true street tires and the car hooks well in first. I don't believe in running DR's on the street because it ruins the handling of the car. Many guys like to call DR's "street tires", but don't say they are running sticky tires (MTs or Nittos) My car is docile until I hit boost at roughly 3K RPMs.
I think that I would be telling a different story if I ran a TS.
12/23/07, 04:51 PM
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Oh yeah, he layed that out just right
12/23/07, 04:56 PM
#130
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Ain't that the truth Tom! I daily drive my 450whp Vortech supercharged Mustang. It's not a good weather car. I drive it everyday....Rain, Snow, Ice, and Sun. With the centri, the car's power under 3K rpms is like stock. In fact, I drove the car in 4" of snow a few weeks ago and it was amazing. Granted a lot of that has to do with snow tires but hey I like to be prepared.
As for in the dry, the way that the power comes in makes for great traction on the street. I use true street tires and the car hooks well in first. I don't believe in running DR's on the street because it ruins the handling of the car. Many guys like to call DR's "street tires", but don't say they are running sticky tires (MTs or Nittos) My car is docile until I hit boost at roughly 3K RPMs.
I think that I would be telling a different story if I ran a TS.
As for in the dry, the way that the power comes in makes for great traction on the street. I use true street tires and the car hooks well in first. I don't believe in running DR's on the street because it ruins the handling of the car. Many guys like to call DR's "street tires", but don't say they are running sticky tires (MTs or Nittos) My car is docile until I hit boost at roughly 3K RPMs.
I think that I would be telling a different story if I ran a TS.
12/23/07, 10:11 PM
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I didn't really have to adjust my driving style, except looking farther ahead and making sure to leave enough room to brake. Like I said above, the car is docile around town. If you didn't hear the slight whistle at idle, a person driving the car wouldn't know it was supercharged if they kept the rpm's under 3K rpms.
12/23/07, 10:11 PM
#132
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I thought pretty much every blower ran stock unless you got into boost. The twin screws bleed off boost when not needed so you can get around town.
I could be wrong.
I could be wrong.
12/23/07, 10:20 PM
#133
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You can go WOT in my car up to about 3,500 rpms and the power is near stock. My tuner showed me this on the dyno. We compared a lightly modded 3V dyno to my Supercharger dyno. They were nearly identical up to the rpm I mentioned. After that is where the fun comes in!!
12/24/07, 07:40 AM
#134
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And that's exactly why I dropped the centrifugal. I personally prefer instant torque. You can justify what you like, that's your business. Just don't make people out there deciding on what to buy think a twin screw is going to scare them and cause control issues because it's not the truth.
Do you want to rev to make peak torque or not? That's the deciding factor. If someone can't handle a twin screw for daily driving around town then they should buy a Toyota.
Do you want to rev to make peak torque or not? That's the deciding factor. If someone can't handle a twin screw for daily driving around town then they should buy a Toyota.
12/24/07, 09:30 AM
#135
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And that's exactly why I dropped the centrifugal. I personally prefer instant torque. You can justify what you like, that's your business. Just don't make people out there deciding on what to buy think a twin screw is going to scare them and cause control issues because it's not the truth.
Do you want to rev to make peak torque or not? That's the deciding factor. If someone can't handle a twin screw for daily driving around town then they should buy a Toyota.
Do you want to rev to make peak torque or not? That's the deciding factor. If someone can't handle a twin screw for daily driving around town then they should buy a Toyota.
- I PM'd it to you by way of discount on the thing we talked.
12/24/07, 11:38 AM
#137
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You know, like I said, I've had a Procharger on my '05 and now I have a twin screw Whipple and both were dyno tuned. I'm sitting here looking at the dyno sheets and I just do not see the loss of mid and top end power on the graphs with the Whipple. I think the biggest misconception with twin screws is that they don't have the top end pull like a centrifugal. The fact that a twin screw has so much pull down low makes the top end less noticable and of course the twin screw graph won't have as steep of a curve up top because the power isn't pouring on all up top. The power is a gradual bottom to top curve, not a mid to high onslaught like the centrifugal has.
I'll be the first to admit that my top end doesn't feel as good as it did with my Procharger, but I believe it's misleading to assume it's the way it really is. With the Whipple the bottom attack is bad *** and that really steals the show before any revs even come into play.
Here are a couple examples from my dyno sheets:
PROCHARGER HP:
3500 rpm's 240
5000 rpm's 420
6300 rpm's 470 peak
PROCHARGER TQ:
3500 rpm's 365
5000 rpm's 435 peak
6300 rpm's 410
__________________________________________________ ____________
__________________________________________________ ____________
WHIPPLE HP:
3500 rpm's 290
5000 rpm's 422
6500 rpm's 480 peak
WHIPPLE TQ:
3500 rpm's 440
5000 rpm's 455
6500 rpm's 390
(TORQUE PEAKS AT 4650 rpms 474 ft lbs)
Pay close attention to what the hp and tq differences are between 3500 rpm's and redline. The hp is basicly the same with both blowers. The torque is where the big difference exists. The twin screw has extreme low end torque. As a matter of fact it has 400 ft lbs at only 2300 rpm's. That's sick. The twin screw does have less torque at redline, but the bottom end difference in torque between the 2 blowers is where the buck stops. There's a difference of 20 ft lbs at redline between the blowers. At 3500 rpm's the difference is staggering....75 ft lbs and it's even worse than that lower in the rpm range.
Bottom line: Twin screws pull hard up top it's just that the bottom end pull already steals the show.......BIG TIME!
The Procharger was at 11 lbs boost, the Whipple at 10.5 lbs boost. The comment that a centrifugal blower is much stronger above 3500 rpm's is just plain wrong. I've got dyno proof of that with the same car, same mods, same basic temp and humidity. I will say that the Procharger definitely feels stronger up top, but the torque curve is smaller and placed up higher in the rpm range. That's why it feels that way from what I see.
I'll be the first to admit that my top end doesn't feel as good as it did with my Procharger, but I believe it's misleading to assume it's the way it really is. With the Whipple the bottom attack is bad *** and that really steals the show before any revs even come into play.
Here are a couple examples from my dyno sheets:
PROCHARGER HP:
3500 rpm's 240
5000 rpm's 420
6300 rpm's 470 peak
PROCHARGER TQ:
3500 rpm's 365
5000 rpm's 435 peak
6300 rpm's 410
__________________________________________________ ____________
__________________________________________________ ____________
WHIPPLE HP:
3500 rpm's 290
5000 rpm's 422
6500 rpm's 480 peak
WHIPPLE TQ:
3500 rpm's 440
5000 rpm's 455
6500 rpm's 390
(TORQUE PEAKS AT 4650 rpms 474 ft lbs)
Pay close attention to what the hp and tq differences are between 3500 rpm's and redline. The hp is basicly the same with both blowers. The torque is where the big difference exists. The twin screw has extreme low end torque. As a matter of fact it has 400 ft lbs at only 2300 rpm's. That's sick. The twin screw does have less torque at redline, but the bottom end difference in torque between the 2 blowers is where the buck stops. There's a difference of 20 ft lbs at redline between the blowers. At 3500 rpm's the difference is staggering....75 ft lbs and it's even worse than that lower in the rpm range.
Bottom line: Twin screws pull hard up top it's just that the bottom end pull already steals the show.......BIG TIME!
The Procharger was at 11 lbs boost, the Whipple at 10.5 lbs boost. The comment that a centrifugal blower is much stronger above 3500 rpm's is just plain wrong. I've got dyno proof of that with the same car, same mods, same basic temp and humidity. I will say that the Procharger definitely feels stronger up top, but the torque curve is smaller and placed up higher in the rpm range. That's why it feels that way from what I see.
. Bottom line like you said you LOVE the bottom end of the Whipple. I will take the Centrifugal in a freeway race or drag race. It should also be noted, the Whipple is in the happy HP and torque range you have your car set at. Look at it like this - Here is a turbo at your boost numbers 10psi
These are my numbers - which everyone claims are exaggerated
Turbo HP:
3500 RPM – 300
5000 RPM – 477
PEAK – 483 at 5600 RPM
Turbo ft/lbs:
3500 RPM – 425
5000 RPM – 490
PEAK – 504 at 4300 RPM
These are Bob Kurgans numbers - On a car I have never seen. Car was tested in Chicago IL
Turbo HP:
3500 RPM – 297
5000 RPM – 520
PEAK – 538 at 5620 RPM
Turbo ft/lbs:
3500 RPM – 440
5000 RPM – 540
PEAK – 587 at 4300 RPM
12/24/07, 11:45 AM
#138
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You should see the numbers down lower...like right off idle. The TS torque is mean as hell. That's good and bad. You need to hook. The Procharged car lacked traction too, but now I need drag radials along with the 3.55's that went back in on the street. Hopefully when the weather gets warm the traction won't be as bad as I think it's going to be. The thing I like the most about the TS is while driving at lower rpm's like in 4th or 5th gear the acceleration is amazing without having to rev.
12/24/07, 06:51 PM
#139
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I gotta say I think its funny that most of the "hardcore" guys will openly swear that a TS is worlds better than a centri because of the low-end torque, but then you have to pry them open to get them to admit that most of them run drag radials with lower gears and most of them won't drive in the rain because of that torque.....
Thanks!
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c...ea0023600d.htm
In the end you just have to weigh all of the choices carefully and decide what YOU want. I decided on the whipple for a few reasons:
1) I knew the turbo was the best for what I wanted, but honestly the fact I knew nothing about turbos intimidated me.
2) I liked that the whipple kit had everything, even the fuel system upgrade
3) I love that whipple scream (ok that maybe a lame reason, but the rest of my car is set up like a true street car, so it doesn't look like much. So when I get on it, I want people to say WTF? It has actually happened already several times---its pretty funny actually
4) I wanted to have awesome 60' times at the track. I race for fun, and love coming out of the gate hard.
5) I wanted complete streetability (and by that I mean not around the block, but drive to Vegas and back without any concerns). The twinscrew or centri allow that.
... Either way you will get great power...