Saleen Superchargers vs. Whipple vs. Vortech
10/24/07, 09:21 PM
#41
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JDM will tell you that it's required, but there have been many people who have installed the Saleen SC without problems with the stock hood.
I'm not trying to say that JDM is trying to rip you off, but they do happen to sell the motor mounts that they are telling you that you *need*.
There's a chance that you may be one of the ones who need the mounts to make it work, but it's not absolutely necessary for everyone like JDM would have you believe.
I'm not trying to say that JDM is trying to rip you off, but they do happen to sell the motor mounts that they are telling you that you *need*.
There's a chance that you may be one of the ones who need the mounts to make it work, but it's not absolutely necessary for everyone like JDM would have you believe.
10/25/07, 12:33 PM
#42
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Someone can correct me if Im wrong but I believe JDM sells mounts with their kit because the cold air system that comes with their kit will hit the hood otherwise. However, I think if you use the saleen extreme intake pipe it will clear fine.
10/25/07, 01:05 PM
#43
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There are several people on this board running the Saleen SC with the C&L intake without lowering mounts and it works fine. You don't have to "always" use lower mounts like JDM says. There are some people who have had issues with hood clearance and the Saleen setup, but there are just as many if not more that have installed the system even with aftermarket CAIs that are not having any issues.
JDM recommends using the lowering mounts because they'd rather play it safe (you're not going to have issues with the hood if you lower the engine, but you might if you don't). And it just so happens that they sell the lowering mounts that they recommend. It doesn't mean though, that you absolutely *must* use lowering mounts to install the Saleen system.
JDM recommends using the lowering mounts because they'd rather play it safe (you're not going to have issues with the hood if you lower the engine, but you might if you don't). And it just so happens that they sell the lowering mounts that they recommend. It doesn't mean though, that you absolutely *must* use lowering mounts to install the Saleen system.
10/25/07, 03:37 PM
#44
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JDM only offers the Saleen with the Saleen Extreme inlet tube now.
They are also having a discount at this time. I am leaning in this direction my self.
Here is the info from another forum:
Ultimate Saleen Supercharger Kit
Saleen Series VI Supercharger
SCT Xcal2 programmer w/ Custom JDM tune
JDM cold air intake
90mm mass air and adapter harness
Saleen Extreme inlet tube
39 lb/hr injectors
Choice of pulley (3.6,3.4,or 3.2)3.2 requires fuel system
Belt
Vacuum line upgrade kit
Autolite HTO pre gapped plugs (Normally not with this kit! $112.50 value)
$5,400
and install for
$660
I would paste the link bit i'm not sure that is aloud.
They are also having a discount at this time. I am leaning in this direction my self.
Here is the info from another forum:
Ultimate Saleen Supercharger Kit
Saleen Series VI Supercharger
SCT Xcal2 programmer w/ Custom JDM tune
JDM cold air intake
90mm mass air and adapter harness
Saleen Extreme inlet tube
39 lb/hr injectors
Choice of pulley (3.6,3.4,or 3.2)3.2 requires fuel system
Belt
Vacuum line upgrade kit
Autolite HTO pre gapped plugs (Normally not with this kit! $112.50 value)
$5,400
and install for
$660
I would paste the link bit i'm not sure that is aloud.
10/25/07, 10:48 PM
#46
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I am waiting to get my ECU back from Saleen any day now....I think the fires in CA have slowed down my delivery as I expected it back today. Anyways, I had a vortech on my previous mustang which was a 96 cobra. I installed that one myself and I just installed a Saleen on my 05 myself, so from a comparision standpoint. I think the Saleen directions were easier to follow and the installation was easier since you don't have to tap the oil pan for oil return. From an equipment standpoint, the Saleen charger is physically about 3 times the amount of eqiupement for the money. The charger is much more complex and specifically designed for the ford 4.6L engine, more like a custom taylored supercharger. I must say I am looking forward to getting the car running soon. I believe the instant boost response of the screw charger design will be superior to the centrifugal charger design.
10/26/07, 12:55 PM
#47
Super Boss Lawman Member
I'm kind of stumped. The non-cooled whipple system says that it makes 415 hp at 6 psi pf boost while the base saleen kit with an intercooler says it makes 435hp at 4 to 5 psi of boost. Why the does the saleen make more hp with less boost,is it the intercooler
10/26/07, 12:58 PM
#48
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i would say so. colder air is more dense and makes more power than hot air.
10/26/07, 05:27 PM
#50
Super Boss Lawman Member
Here is an interesting read on a supercharger decision.
http://www.driveonline.com/content/view/132/84/
http://www.driveonline.com/content/view/132/84/
10/26/07, 06:20 PM
#51
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....The non-cooled whipple system says that it makes 415 hp at 6 psi pf boost while the base saleen kit with an intercooler says it makes 435hp at 4 to 5 psi of boost. Why the does the saleen make more hp with less boost,is it the intercooler
These are manufacturer's claims. Unfortunately, comparing them is like comparing an apple to an orange.... I wish that someone (magazine?) would run an independent test on all available blowers....
These are manufacturer's claims. Unfortunately, comparing them is like comparing an apple to an orange.... I wish that someone (magazine?) would run an independent test on all available blowers....
10/27/07, 10:06 AM
#52
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Alot of very basic and unqualified opinions here so far. Twin screw is better than a cenrti, this brand makes more power than that one, etc. I respectfully call BS on all of these statements, and would offer the following from my own experience.
1) Find a really good shop if you do not plan on doing the install yourself. Ask them what they reccomend, and then ask to talk to their customers.
2) Be specific about what you want and how you will use the car.
3) Understand that all of the blower kits are capable of achieving very comperable power on a chassis dyno.
4) Take a few trips to the track and look at what people are running, and pick their brain.
5) Pull the trigger and don't look back, because their will always be some knucklehead telling you that you bought the wrong blower.
Having said that - here is my set up and I am extremely pleased with it.
Vortech polished HO kit running 11.2 psi of boost and making 467whp. Internally stock otherwise.
Why did I choose Vortech?
1. The shop I chose has extensive experience with Vortechs.
2. Once it was explained to me that when running through the gears, a centri is right in it's power band, I quickly dismissed the idea that a twin screw is a better simply based on the fact that it provides more low end power. A centri augments the natural power curve of the engine and progressively build power. A screw type will provide a more linear power increase. Some suggest one is better than the other - bunk. They are just two different means to a similar end.
My Impressions of Vortech:
1. Very nice install.
2. Absolute blast to drive - especially with 4:10's. Hits the powerband REALLY fast and just screams to the upper RPM's
3. At about $4,600 for the polished kit - a good value IMO.
4. Easily upgraded.
5. My preference for any strip duties.
Bottom line - there is no "better" only "different". If you want low rpm torque - I would suggest looking at the KB's, Whipples, Saleen's etc. You can't go wrong with any of those kits. You'll be able to blow your tires off at low speeds, and it will feel like a much bigger engine in the low rpm's. Will you go faster in a 1/4 mile than a centri blown car?...no, not assuming both cars are equal.
If you want a blower that will build power and amplify the existing power curve of your 4.6. Then I would suggest a Paxton, Vortech, etc. Remember when you run your car through the gears you should have it in the 4,500-6,500+ rpm range, which is exactly where that blower is really cooking.
Good luck.
1) Find a really good shop if you do not plan on doing the install yourself. Ask them what they reccomend, and then ask to talk to their customers.
2) Be specific about what you want and how you will use the car.
3) Understand that all of the blower kits are capable of achieving very comperable power on a chassis dyno.
4) Take a few trips to the track and look at what people are running, and pick their brain.
5) Pull the trigger and don't look back, because their will always be some knucklehead telling you that you bought the wrong blower.
Having said that - here is my set up and I am extremely pleased with it.
Vortech polished HO kit running 11.2 psi of boost and making 467whp. Internally stock otherwise.
Why did I choose Vortech?
1. The shop I chose has extensive experience with Vortechs.
2. Once it was explained to me that when running through the gears, a centri is right in it's power band, I quickly dismissed the idea that a twin screw is a better simply based on the fact that it provides more low end power. A centri augments the natural power curve of the engine and progressively build power. A screw type will provide a more linear power increase. Some suggest one is better than the other - bunk. They are just two different means to a similar end.
My Impressions of Vortech:
1. Very nice install.
2. Absolute blast to drive - especially with 4:10's. Hits the powerband REALLY fast and just screams to the upper RPM's
3. At about $4,600 for the polished kit - a good value IMO.
4. Easily upgraded.
5. My preference for any strip duties.
Bottom line - there is no "better" only "different". If you want low rpm torque - I would suggest looking at the KB's, Whipples, Saleen's etc. You can't go wrong with any of those kits. You'll be able to blow your tires off at low speeds, and it will feel like a much bigger engine in the low rpm's. Will you go faster in a 1/4 mile than a centri blown car?...no, not assuming both cars are equal.
If you want a blower that will build power and amplify the existing power curve of your 4.6. Then I would suggest a Paxton, Vortech, etc. Remember when you run your car through the gears you should have it in the 4,500-6,500+ rpm range, which is exactly where that blower is really cooking.
Good luck.
10/27/07, 12:07 PM
#53
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I agree with exgto. You probaby can't go wrong with the power on an of them. So you might look at other things such as cost, and sound. Some make louder sounds than others. I know a friend of mine had a Vortec in his 05, it was so loud at idle, no mistaking that it was blown (which he loved)
Not sure if this is normal for the vortecs, but it was very loud on that particular install. My Whipple you can't hear at idle, and only hear hints of it during normal driving. When you get on it, you can really hear it though. A friend riding with me out to El Mirage said "Wow, I've never heard your motor sound like that before!" after I floored it out on the lake, and he had beein in the car for over an hour on the trip up there. Some of the superchargers may be quieter at WOT than others. Bottom line though, with a decent tune, you'll make good power with probably any of them. The rest is just preference.
Not sure if this is normal for the vortecs, but it was very loud on that particular install. My Whipple you can't hear at idle, and only hear hints of it during normal driving. When you get on it, you can really hear it though. A friend riding with me out to El Mirage said "Wow, I've never heard your motor sound like that before!" after I floored it out on the lake, and he had beein in the car for over an hour on the trip up there. Some of the superchargers may be quieter at WOT than others. Bottom line though, with a decent tune, you'll make good power with probably any of them. The rest is just preference.
10/27/07, 01:40 PM
#54
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Alot of very basic and unqualified opinions here so far. Twin screw is better than a cenrti, this brand makes more power than that one, etc. I respectfully call BS on all of these statements, and would offer the following from my own experience.
1) Find a really good shop if you do not plan on doing the install yourself. Ask them what they reccomend, and then ask to talk to their customers.
2) Be specific about what you want and how you will use the car.
3) Understand that all of the blower kits are capable of achieving very comperable power on a chassis dyno.
4) Take a few trips to the track and look at what people are running, and pick their brain.
5) Pull the trigger and don't look back, because their will always be some knucklehead telling you that you bought the wrong blower.
Having said that - here is my set up and I am extremely pleased with it.
Vortech polished HO kit running 11.2 psi of boost and making 467whp. Internally stock otherwise.
Why did I choose Vortech?
1. The shop I chose has extensive experience with Vortechs.
2. Once it was explained to me that when running through the gears, a centri is right in it's power band, I quickly dismissed the idea that a twin screw is a better simply based on the fact that it provides more low end power. A centri augments the natural power curve of the engine and progressively build power. A screw type will provide a more linear power increase. Some suggest one is better than the other - bunk. They are just two different means to a similar end.
My Impressions of Vortech:
1. Very nice install.
2. Absolute blast to drive - especially with 4:10's. Hits the powerband REALLY fast and just screams to the upper RPM's
3. At about $4,600 for the polished kit - a good value IMO.
4. Easily upgraded.
5. My preference for any strip duties.
Bottom line - there is no "better" only "different". If you want low rpm torque - I would suggest looking at the KB's, Whipples, Saleen's etc. You can't go wrong with any of those kits. You'll be able to blow your tires off at low speeds, and it will feel like a much bigger engine in the low rpm's. Will you go faster in a 1/4 mile than a centri blown car?...no, not assuming both cars are equal.
If you want a blower that will build power and amplify the existing power curve of your 4.6. Then I would suggest a Paxton, Vortech, etc. Remember when you run your car through the gears you should have it in the 4,500-6,500+ rpm range, which is exactly where that blower is really cooking.
Good luck.
1) Find a really good shop if you do not plan on doing the install yourself. Ask them what they reccomend, and then ask to talk to their customers.
2) Be specific about what you want and how you will use the car.
3) Understand that all of the blower kits are capable of achieving very comperable power on a chassis dyno.
4) Take a few trips to the track and look at what people are running, and pick their brain.
5) Pull the trigger and don't look back, because their will always be some knucklehead telling you that you bought the wrong blower.
Having said that - here is my set up and I am extremely pleased with it.
Vortech polished HO kit running 11.2 psi of boost and making 467whp. Internally stock otherwise.
Why did I choose Vortech?
1. The shop I chose has extensive experience with Vortechs.
2. Once it was explained to me that when running through the gears, a centri is right in it's power band, I quickly dismissed the idea that a twin screw is a better simply based on the fact that it provides more low end power. A centri augments the natural power curve of the engine and progressively build power. A screw type will provide a more linear power increase. Some suggest one is better than the other - bunk. They are just two different means to a similar end.
My Impressions of Vortech:
1. Very nice install.
2. Absolute blast to drive - especially with 4:10's. Hits the powerband REALLY fast and just screams to the upper RPM's
3. At about $4,600 for the polished kit - a good value IMO.
4. Easily upgraded.
5. My preference for any strip duties.
Bottom line - there is no "better" only "different". If you want low rpm torque - I would suggest looking at the KB's, Whipples, Saleen's etc. You can't go wrong with any of those kits. You'll be able to blow your tires off at low speeds, and it will feel like a much bigger engine in the low rpm's. Will you go faster in a 1/4 mile than a centri blown car?...no, not assuming both cars are equal.
If you want a blower that will build power and amplify the existing power curve of your 4.6. Then I would suggest a Paxton, Vortech, etc. Remember when you run your car through the gears you should have it in the 4,500-6,500+ rpm range, which is exactly where that blower is really cooking.
Good luck.
10/27/07, 04:39 PM
#55
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EXGTO had a great post. I have a Vortech and love it. My opinion:
Centi: Great on the street/daily driver w/ street tires. I run a 3.55 gear and a handling orientated MAX perfomance tire (275/40/18). They hook really well on the street. Boost hits at roughly 3,250 lbs and builds all the way to the rev limiter. Max boost occurs at fuel cut, which is 10.08 lbs on my car at 6,600 rpms.
Personally I really like my setup. I think a TS supercharger would require drag radials all the time.
Centi: Great on the street/daily driver w/ street tires. I run a 3.55 gear and a handling orientated MAX perfomance tire (275/40/18). They hook really well on the street. Boost hits at roughly 3,250 lbs and builds all the way to the rev limiter. Max boost occurs at fuel cut, which is 10.08 lbs on my car at 6,600 rpms.
Personally I really like my setup. I think a TS supercharger would require drag radials all the time.
10/27/07, 08:35 PM
#56
Its the intercooler and the way that the unit was designed, as the Series VI was a completely new design for Saleen.
10/29/07, 10:04 PM
#57
Mach 1 Member
I just saw a friends Whipple, pic below. He loves it with his auot trans. I really like this idea of SC, I miss my Lightning. Question I have is; does this take your car out of comission for winter driving in the snow? I was also thinking of instlling 3.73 or 3.90 gears with the SC.
BTY good thread, get's one thinking, in many directiosns.
BTY good thread, get's one thinking, in many directiosns.
10/30/07, 09:28 AM
#58
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I have a D1SC procharger for sale for $3500 if anyone wants to go that route.
12/18/07, 04:26 PM
#59
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Hi everyone,
I had the Saleen charger with the 475 Kitt since earlier this year and LOVE IT .
However, I DO wonder if someone that had the Saleen tune and went with the JDM tune could share their experience and/or feedback in differences.
I like the Saleen tune but read it's too 'conservative' and was wondering about
I had the Saleen charger with the 475 Kitt since earlier this year and LOVE IT .
However, I DO wonder if someone that had the Saleen tune and went with the JDM tune could share their experience and/or feedback in differences.
I like the Saleen tune but read it's too 'conservative' and was wondering about
12/18/07, 09:14 PM
#60
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I just pulled a Procharger form my '05. It's on my boy's car now. I installed a Whipple H.O. kit to replace it. They are 2 different animals all together.
Procharger feels basicly stock until over 2500 rpm's, but then it pulls extremely hard to redline. Traction was absolutely terrible at 11 lbs boost. Very noisy at idle, slight whistle while cruisng and silent under acceleration. Mid and top end power stand out and wake you up.
Whipple does not ever feel stock at all. Immediate rush of torque right off idle. Not just noticable, very intense. Mid range power is awesome and even though the dyno sheets show the power builds all the way to redline the top end is not nearly as noticable as the Procharger. I think it may feel that way because the bottom end power already got your attention in a big way. Traction is a bit worse than the Procharger. The Whipple is absolutely quiet at idle and while cruising. Accelerating medium to hard creates an intense whine while under load which is pretty ballsy. My wife thinks it sounds tough which is sayin' a lot. She usually doesn't pay any attention to this crap.
Bottom line is I don't want to have to rev the engine for my torque and HP peak. I'd rather have a big block feel. I also like the way the blower can't be heard unless I'm spankin' it. So, if you want a motor that revs a lot and is still a lot of fun, go centrifugal. If you want power down low, get a twin screw. Whipples are the most efficient twin screws, have the largest intercooler and the best fuel system of all the twin screw designs. KB and Saleen are great systems, but I prefer Whipple. As far as centris go, Prochargers are tops in my book.
Procharger feels basicly stock until over 2500 rpm's, but then it pulls extremely hard to redline. Traction was absolutely terrible at 11 lbs boost. Very noisy at idle, slight whistle while cruisng and silent under acceleration. Mid and top end power stand out and wake you up.
Whipple does not ever feel stock at all. Immediate rush of torque right off idle. Not just noticable, very intense. Mid range power is awesome and even though the dyno sheets show the power builds all the way to redline the top end is not nearly as noticable as the Procharger. I think it may feel that way because the bottom end power already got your attention in a big way. Traction is a bit worse than the Procharger. The Whipple is absolutely quiet at idle and while cruising. Accelerating medium to hard creates an intense whine while under load which is pretty ballsy. My wife thinks it sounds tough which is sayin' a lot. She usually doesn't pay any attention to this crap.
Bottom line is I don't want to have to rev the engine for my torque and HP peak. I'd rather have a big block feel. I also like the way the blower can't be heard unless I'm spankin' it. So, if you want a motor that revs a lot and is still a lot of fun, go centrifugal. If you want power down low, get a twin screw. Whipples are the most efficient twin screws, have the largest intercooler and the best fuel system of all the twin screw designs. KB and Saleen are great systems, but I prefer Whipple. As far as centris go, Prochargers are tops in my book.