2005RedGT

I had my third dyno and tune this past Saturday (1/15). We did a baseline test - and lost 9rwhp from my last visit. My tuner Andre, then palyed with the A/F ratios and was able to bring me back to 268rwhp (2 less than before). However, he has able to go from the 276rwtq to 294rwtq with this tune.

The overall sound is very good, the X-Pipes are great. The CompCats make the exhaust about twice as loud, but seem to loose rwhp vs the rwtq I expected to loose. So, the franken-exhaust i have seem to be a very good combo of free flowing exhaust - but with a price - f'ing loud

However, my end result of a ProCharger S/C will justify the expense of the CompCats. For anyone who is considering this - remember, the X-Pipe added some nice sound and flow, but the CompCats are very loud and you will only see any results if you get more inductions - such as turbos or S/C.

If you want to hear some exhaust sounds, you can goto :

1. Houston Meetup Event for some burnouts, dynos, exhaust clips.

2. My Mustang Page.com page and jump to page 14 for the Bassani X-Pipe Install page.

-Bryan

The Boss Hog

Bryan,
Are you sure you meant 268 rwhp? Over in the SCT forum, you say 286 rwhp which seams more real given your mods. I have been following that other forum and your trials with the SCT tuner. That's one of the main reasons I'm just waiting to see what happens.

The Boss Hog

porsche

5% loss dyno

swingle007

The 268 did come on the Mustang dyno....The dynojet in the facility we use usually shows about 17-20 more rwhp.....figure 285 or so on the jet as opposed to the Mustang dyno, but sounds like it was just a typo.........

John

Black Magic

Glad you like the exhaust Bryan. But why did it loose power between tunes? I hate to keep adding mods and a tune only to loose the power before I get to the track. Maybe I am misunderstanding this picture. :scratch:

porsche

I cant see how the high flow cats t make it loose hp .
Does not add up.Bassani thinks it is good for 15 rwh!

swingle007

I wasn't aware they claimed that kind of increase Porsche .... Didn't happen so far but it might with more dyno time....Bryan left at 271 last trip and started at like 261 on the first pull with the new cats and x-pipe.....just about got it back to the last hp #'s by the time we left. BIG deal was gainining a decent amout of torque with the new mods after just a few air/fuel ratio adjustments with the SCT xcalibrator...Bryan only got like an hour on the dyno b4 they closed so the trip he makes next week may prove the real power he'll gain from the new setup...

John

porsche

True that.

2005RedGT

Bryan,
Are you sure you meant 268 rwhp? Over in the SCT forum, you say 286 rwhp which seams more real given your mods. I have been following that other forum and your trials with the SCT tuner. That's one of the main reasons I'm just waiting to see what happens.

The Boss Hog [/b][/quote]
I am sorry, it was a typo, THe rwhp is 268 (not 286) down from my prior dyno. I will correct that.

-Bryan

2005RedGT

Now, I lost rwhp and almost regained it before I left. The new exhaust is so free flowing that my tuner, Andre, had the adjust my A/F ratio to get it back to 268. The new CompCats are so much less restrictive than the stock is not even funny - the exhaust is twice is loud.

I only saw gains in torque - oddly enough - up nearly 20 from 276rwtq to 294rwtq. The reason there is a loss, from what I was told, was becuase of the loss of back-pressure the engine was expecting.

Now, this is all OK, Becuase I bought this for my ProCharger. When install that S/C I should have the free flowing exhaust needed I was just hoping to pickup a few hp now, but did not

-Bryan

2005RedGT

Just to let people know (again) Noone I have seen so far has gotten much ,if any, performance gains from any mufflers, x-pipes , etc. You may pikcups some, but it is not like the older Stangs with their 15-20hp gains. We already have 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust. Gains are minimal

So buy them for their sound and future mods - TURBO or S/C

-Bryan

Kluski

What does increased torque due performance wise, especially since you have the same HP? I understand that was not your intent, but I am trying to figure out the difference between HP and torque (in reference to performance/feel).

swingle007

I've got a lot of fellow Mustang club members who prefer the torque over the hp anyway....Talked to a guy yesterday who has a '66 getting 280rwhp and 403 ft./lbs. torque.....His contention is that torque is what gets him down the track.....was an interesting conversation with an experienced performance engine guy....

Kluski

So if two cars had similar HP but different tq, the one with more tq should win?

Sorry to get a little off topic, but you guys have done so many mods to your car, I come up with new questions every time you post your mods.

2005RedGT

you know ... it would require someone with alot more experice than me to answer that. I am sure we will get varied opinions. We all know torque get us there quicker, the hp gets us farther and if we shift right and hit the torque apoun shifting - its much better for 1/4 mile. BUT I would rather have both high

Anyone have some better insight than I , please clear the confusion.

-Bryan

Madhouse

Depends on how far you race. If it's a short race, torque will win out because it gets you off the line faster, but a higher-horsepower car will out-run the other over a longer stretch.

Stoplight-to-stoplight the torque wins out, but flat-out the horsepower will take the lead.

ZRX4ME

I wonder if the only really restrictive thing on these '05's is the 55mm throttle body,which seems kinda small for a 300hp motor.I wonder what the upcoming BBK TB will do??Anybody hear from them??

bullittman

:scratch: We have a dual 55 MM body. That should be plenty of airflow.

RRRoamer

Ok, power101: HP = Torque * rpm / 5252. Please note that hp is a CALCULATED value. There is no such thing as a HP sensor. Even a dyno works by measuring TORQUE and the engine rpm. It then uses the above formula to calculate the hp generated by that much torque being applied at that speed. Pretty simple? No?

On any dyno graph (assuming the hp and torque are using the same scale!), the hp and torque will ALWAYS cross at 5252 rpm. Below 5252 rpm, an engine makes more torque (in ft*lbs) than hp. Above it, it will make more hp than torque. (please see the assumption above!)

So a simple thought is that torque IS what moves the car (again, you can't even MEASURE hp). But it is only making a lot of POWER if it is producing that torque at high rpms. Now, when you are talking about a car accellerating from a light, you are talking about someone leaving at around 2000 rpm (yes, it CAN be a lot higher, but that is not important for this lesson!). He/she will accellerate from 2000 rpm until they hit the rpm that they plan on shifting at. It can be 2500 rpm or redline or anywhere in between. What matters is how much torque is the engine producing from the starting rpm to the shifting rpm.

If you have a peaky engine (makes lots of hp at high rpm, but not much torque), then at 2500 rpm it will not be making much torque. And it will be making even LESS hp. As the rpm increases (and it will be slower initially than a car with lots of low end torque), the torque will rise along with the rpm (at least until peak torque is reached) so the hp will increase rapidly. What determines how long it took to go from the starting rpm to the final shifting rpm (along with a bushel basket of constants such as weight and gear ratios) is how much power is "under the curve". This is kind of hard to explain without a picture or two... Basically, a peaky engine has a triangle (ish) shaped area and a torque engine has square (ish) shaped torque area. The area of a right triangle is 1/2 * base * height, or 1/2 * (shift rpm - starting rpm) * peak torque. The area of a square is just base * height or (shift rpm - starting rpm) * peak torque. Basically, a real peaky engine will give so much away down low that it can't make it back on the top end.

Now, when you are dragging racing the car, you are shifting at redline (or close to it) AND you are launching at much higher engine speeds (aka: closer to peak torque and peak hp). So that peaky engine is operating much, much closer to where it makes best power. And it stays there as you shift because you have a 5 speed tranny. So that little peaky engine can run faster down a 1/4 mile track than the lower powered, but torquer engine can. When it comes to all out effort, power is power and the more the better! Of course, that torquey engine will get a bit ahead of the peaky engine right off the line, but after that, it's all the peaky engine.

Now, for the street (assuming you are still with me!), that torquey engine just FEELS SO much better! While it's peak hp is lower than the peaky engine, at low engine speeds, it makes MORE hp! So when you punch it while driving around in higher gears, it pulls harder than the peaky engine would.

For a VERY exagerated example, go drive a Volkswagen Gold TDI. That engine makes around 220 ft*lbs or torque (if my memory is correct), but only 90 hp. Right off the line, that car pulls great. It is perfect for around town driving. On the interstate, you will notice it is down on high end power because it's power doesn't keep raising with rpm the way a small gas engine does. Of course, a 90 hp gas engine would feel down right DEAD in the golf because you would have to spin the crap out of it to make any real power. The TDI can make real power at very low engine rpms so it "feels' much stronger than it actually is.

So finally, I just want to say that I would take 20 ft*lbs and -2 hp ANY day! There is NO WAY that did not do GOOD things to the total torque curve.

porsche

throttle body bbk has one comming out soon .