i've read on some sites that the parasitic loss from the p/s pump is the third largest in an automobile. just behind wind resistance and friction. best i can tell from about 2 hours searching for a dyno test is it costs about 20-40 hp. the more rpm the more it costs you. i'm going to buy a shorter belt to bypass the pump when i'm at the track then i can test it to see if that is true. i read in an old MM&FF they did a dyno test on a stock 3V motor with no accessories and open exhaust(stock manifolds and no converters). the engine made 357hp! now figuriing the alternator is about 10hp and water pump is 5hp, converters probably give no gain in hp so thats roughly 40hp. this engine was also tested without the vct functioning. when the cam was retarded menually it picked up another 10hp. could it be that easy to get 40-50 hp? i've never tested this before cause my race cars were always manual rack to start with. anybody done this on a late model mustang?

 

Do you really want to go without power steering on a vehicle you drive everyday? Even if it does free up 20+ hp, which I have seen too, I dont believe its worth the lack of comfort and function for a car seeing more than 15k miles a year.

Too bad its not a smart thing to just bypass by installing a shorter belt for track duty.

-Dan

 

That 357 hp is the old school method (pre 1972) of determining HP. That is why I am going with steeda pulleys to help free up some of that15 or so HP for the waterpump and such. I really like the P/S feature, so unless we can change that pulley out....guess it will stay.

 

Is there a reason why we cant put an electric motor on it? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

-Dan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cleveland @ February 15, 2006, 5:40 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Is there a reason why we cant put an electric motor on it? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

-Dan
[/b][/quote]

I have a 2100 Lb. CRX-Si with no power steering on 185/60 14 tires and it's a female dog to park.
Imagine a 3500 Lb. car with 285/40 18s [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img]

I'll pass unless spyder7724 figues out the proper length for a track only setup. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(thump_rrr @ February 15, 2006, 5:15 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I have a 2100 Lb. CRX-Si with no power steering on 185/60 14 tires and it's a female dog to park.
Imagine a 3500 Lb. car with 285/40 18s [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img]

I'll pass unless spyder7724 figues out the proper length for a track only setup. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

I am really interested in getting a track only short belt, I am sure this would help with our ET's. But I don't know what size belt I need and don't have a good idea how to figure it out.

 

http://powerhouse411.com/catalog/index.php...&products_id=47
Found this while looking at some LCA's. No picture, but says it only takes 5 minutes to install? I may go with this since I'm conviced that UDP's are not a good idea in AZ>

 

There is a slight drag on the disc brakes to so you might as well take those off also. Gees I can't beleive how some people think. Also the caster on a power steering car and a non power car are different . The caster is what makes a vehicle with power steering when the pump not turning hard to turn. How do I kow I used to do wheel aligments. So it just not a matter of removing a belt. Ever see a shopping cart when the back wheels kinda vibrate and won't go straight. Imagine car doing that at 100mph [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(toolttime @ February 15, 2006, 12:58 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
There is a slight drag on the disc brakes to so you might as well take those off also. Gees I can't beleive how some people think. Also the caster on a power steering car and a non power car are different . The caster is what makes a vehicle with power steering when the pump not turning hard to turn. How do I kow I used to do wheel aligments. So it just not a matter of removing a belt. Ever see a shopping cart when the back wheels kinda vibrate and won't go straight. Imagine car doing that at 100mph [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
i'm not about to delete my p/s all together but i ddefinitely will bypass it at the track. as far as driving around with manual steering i had a fox body that i converted to manual when i put the big block in it. it had skinny tires on the front so it wasn't bad to steer+ it was very seldom driven on the street. i don't now if i want to drive around town with those big wide tires on the front with no p/s. but sometimes speed requires the loss of some comfort. fey nothings free.
i did see that some new car manufacturers are testing electronic p/s pumps and electric assist racks for future use on production autos. maybe a point where comfort doesn't sacrifice hp but not yet.
i'll measure up the belt this weekend and post the length for a p/s delete.

 

You should first do some research to see that you wont cause any complications when bypassing that pulley.

-Dan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cleveland @ February 15, 2006, 10:29 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
You should first do some research to see that you wont cause any complications when bypassing that pulley.

-Dan
[/b][/quote]
dan
yeah i wondered whether it would throw a code in the ecm but i doubt it. if anything the pump will thank me for not spinning it 6000rpm. i saw an article on MM&FF website about bypassing the p/s and this is what they had said. on a 5.0 it was worth .2 seconds or about 20-30 hp. supposedly those pumps don't like being spun at high rpms too much. i'm sure the pulleys help that but i got to try bypassing it just once to see for myself if it's worth doing. all it costs is a belt....i hope

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(toolttime @ February 15, 2006, 11:58 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
There is a slight drag on the disc brakes to so you might as well take those off also. Gees I can't beleive how some people think. Also the caster on a power steering car and a non power car are different . The caster is what makes a vehicle with power steering when the pump not turning hard to turn. How do I kow I used to do wheel aligments. So it just not a matter of removing a belt. Ever see a shopping cart when the back wheels kinda vibrate and won't go straight. Imagine car doing that at 100mph [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
If you removes the wheels, you can reduce unsprung weight by 160 pounds!

Automatic trannies sap a bunch of power, too. Time for a 5-speed manual conversion kit... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]

 

Why not just take the belt off completly, run the Mierz electric water pump, and charge your battery between rounds. Either by putting the belt back on or with a external generator. This way you will not have any parasitic drag on your engine by the PS pump, idler pulleys, alternator, or a/c compressor pulley.

Just my 2 cents.

JLH

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JLH @ February 16, 2006, 2:46 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Why not just take the belt off completly, run the Mierz electric water pump, and charge your battery between rounds. Either by putting the belt back on or with a external generator. This way you will not have any parasitic drag on your engine by the PS pump, idler pulleys, alternator, or a/c compressor pulley.

Just my 2 cents.

JLH
[/b][/quote]


that would probably throw a code or two.

 

Why not buy a Bodies-in-White from FORD and start from there?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Route 66 @ February 16, 2006, 3:06 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Why not buy a Bodies-in-White from FORD and start from there?
[/b][/quote]
that was already considered but you can't title a body in white. i had a great 393 windsor and pg for it too. easily would have ran 9's n/a. this was the best option for me.start with a complete car and go to work.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blazing Saddles @ February 16, 2006, 10:17 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
There is a pressure sensor on the power steering pump. It will get a code if you bypass it with a shorter belt.
[/b][/quote]
i wonder if it will send the ecm into limp mode? or just pop a code in it. i still gotta try it. i'm sure my tuner can work around it. heck he turned off the t/c and got the ecm to go closed loop after the engine has been on for 1-2 minutes. i wish i had the knowledge and software to mess with that thing. maybe someday.