High Flow Cats
2/13/07, 03:33 PM
#21
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The first thing the inspector is going to notice with an off-road pipe is the lack of cats (violation of federal emissions law/regulations). Regarding the rear O2 sensors, the inspectors should physically check for the presence on a system with cats.
Typical tunes disable the rear o2 sensors, so ideally the inspectors should then check to see, via the OBD-II system, if the rear O2 sensors are active and functioning to see if the operator of the vehicle is using a non-factory certified engine calibration and if the operator/owner is using MIL eliminators. They could then tie their electronic database system in with the dealership system to void the warranties based on findings of non-factory certified calibrations.
Typical tunes disable the rear o2 sensors, so ideally the inspectors should then check to see, via the OBD-II system, if the rear O2 sensors are active and functioning to see if the operator of the vehicle is using a non-factory certified engine calibration and if the operator/owner is using MIL eliminators. They could then tie their electronic database system in with the dealership system to void the warranties based on findings of non-factory certified calibrations.
How many times does it need to be said that Ford is the only party that can void your warranty. Ford would only void your warranty if you come to them for a repair and your mod can be proven to be cause of the failure.
In GA, new vehicles are exempt from emssions inspections for the first 3 years. So when its time for an emissions test, your warranty is pretty much gone already
2/13/07, 04:00 PM
#22
Legacy TMS Member
The emissions person has no concept of what a factory certified engine calibration is. A vehicles calibration is probably proprietary information. Furthermore, why would an emissions inspector be concerned with voiding your warranty?
How many times does it need to be said that Ford is the only party that can void your warranty. Ford would only void your warranty if you come to them for a repair and your mod can be proven to be cause of the failure.
In GA, new vehicles are exempt from emssions inspections for the first 3 years. So when its time for an emissions test, your warranty is pretty much gone already
How many times does it need to be said that Ford is the only party that can void your warranty. Ford would only void your warranty if you come to them for a repair and your mod can be proven to be cause of the failure.
In GA, new vehicles are exempt from emssions inspections for the first 3 years. So when its time for an emissions test, your warranty is pretty much gone already
If the rear O2 sensors are disabled on a typical car, then there's a good chance the owner/operator is using a non-factory certified calibration. Only some vehicles have the rear O2's disabled at the factory and these are usually trucks/vans. The factory calibrations are designed to be street legal and comply with federal and state emissions regulations after thousands of hours (and dollar's) of extensive and expensive NVH, emissions, fuel consumption, and reliability testing.
2/13/07, 06:25 PM
#23
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How hard is it to swap between the o/r and the stock h-pipe. I live in Pa, and drive under 6000 a year on the car. If all I need is cats to pass the visual inspection, is it really going to be a pain to do the swap yearly?
2/13/07, 09:26 PM
#24
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
Rocky,
I think you are missing my point. Here is Ohio they just stopped E-check in about 20 counties around the state last year after about 20 yrs. of testing. When I say you car will not pass an emissions test with your present CAI and tune I am talking the sniffer test... not visual to see you if your cats are in place. So my point being you can't pass that test than go all the way and take off the cats. Put them back on when you get checked. As far as the rear O2 sensors goes I know most are turned off because the air fuel ratio is different than stock and will confuse the computer. I am running Lidio's 93 octane tune and I know mine are turned off. Brent from Brentspeed also turns them off in his tunes. I also thought Doug turned them off also. That's why guys can run offroad H-pipes and get no CEL's. P.S. I do know what I am suggesting in against the law BTW.
Scott
I think you are missing my point. Here is Ohio they just stopped E-check in about 20 counties around the state last year after about 20 yrs. of testing. When I say you car will not pass an emissions test with your present CAI and tune I am talking the sniffer test... not visual to see you if your cats are in place. So my point being you can't pass that test than go all the way and take off the cats. Put them back on when you get checked. As far as the rear O2 sensors goes I know most are turned off because the air fuel ratio is different than stock and will confuse the computer. I am running Lidio's 93 octane tune and I know mine are turned off. Brent from Brentspeed also turns them off in his tunes. I also thought Doug turned them off also. That's why guys can run offroad H-pipes and get no CEL's. P.S. I do know what I am suggesting in against the law BTW.
Scott
However if you were still running the factory cats ? there's no need to turn them off..As for the air/fuel ? I can't speak for Lidio but I do know that Doug has the air/fuel ratio set between 12.5 and 12.8 at WOT which is still considered as being somewhat on the rich side anyhow so again there's really no purpose behind turning the 02 sensors off unless your either running an off road pipe or long tube headers and besides a custom tune isn't required for just an off road H-pipe anyway in fact you can use a canned tune/programmer for that, hell all you need to do is just go into your end user adjustability options and just turn off the 02 sensors yourself..
2/13/07, 09:35 PM
#25
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
There is no visual inspection under the PA emission exemption status, the only visual inspection that's still required ? is under the PA state safety inspection, which has nothing to do with cats nor anything that's related under the emission requirements..
2/14/07, 06:11 AM
#26
Well, here is what just happened to me. I live in Austin Texas and I have a CAI and 93 Octane tune from Brenspeed. Stock exhaust, except the mufflers. I went to get my 05 GT inspected a minuet ago, and it FAILED emissions. The reason: The O2 sensors were "not ready", nor was the "Evap Monitor", "Catalyst Monitor", nor the "O2 Sensor Heater", WTF that is. I am assuming my rear O2 sensors were turned off. The inspector said if any one of those 4 Moniotrs was "ready" I'd pass.
I tried calling Brenspeed, but apearantly they are in a blizzard right now and Brent needs to be at home, rightfully so. They did call back quickly and he'll have to check the tune file tomorrow. Sometimes the sensors are turned off sometimes the aren't. Does anyone know if the rear O2 sensors are usually turned off with custom tunes?
. . .
Looks like I'm reinstalling the stock airbox and tune for a few hours....
I tried calling Brenspeed, but apearantly they are in a blizzard right now and Brent needs to be at home, rightfully so. They did call back quickly and he'll have to check the tune file tomorrow. Sometimes the sensors are turned off sometimes the aren't. Does anyone know if the rear O2 sensors are usually turned off with custom tunes?
. . .
Looks like I'm reinstalling the stock airbox and tune for a few hours....
Raises an interesting question about disabling the O2 sensors. If this indeed always results in a failed OBDII scan, MIL eliminators may be the way to go for anyone removing or altering the position of the stock cats.
2/14/07, 06:27 AM
#27
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The custom tune and CAI were put in 2-3 weeks ago. Last w/e the car went on a 300+ mile road trip, plus normal work week driving. I swapped out the CAI for the stock setup and tune last night. I'll take it back to the inspection place today for a "pre-test" to see if things are "ready". I'll keep y'all posted.
2/14/07, 09:28 AM
#28
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I'll let you know how things stand in Albuquerque NM. I need to take my car in for the emissions testing within the next few weeks. My car has the JLT2 CAI and Doug's HP tune installed. There are NO ODBII codes and the rear sensors are installed and (as far as I know) working.
If it fails anything, I'll put the stock tune back on and try it again after a few start/stop cycles. At this altitude, Doug's tune is way rich at WOT, but it runs very well at part throttle in closed loop (as you would expect with a full closed loop control system fine tuning things!).
If it STILL fails, then I will have to remove the JLT2 and put the stock intake back on. All in all, I am REALLY hoping that everything passes with the JLT2 and Doug's tune. Given that they do NOT do any WOT sniffer testing, there really isn't any reason for it to fail unless the tune is way out of wack to begin with. And I really don't think that is the case simply from how it runs.
If it fails anything, I'll put the stock tune back on and try it again after a few start/stop cycles. At this altitude, Doug's tune is way rich at WOT, but it runs very well at part throttle in closed loop (as you would expect with a full closed loop control system fine tuning things!).
If it STILL fails, then I will have to remove the JLT2 and put the stock intake back on. All in all, I am REALLY hoping that everything passes with the JLT2 and Doug's tune. Given that they do NOT do any WOT sniffer testing, there really isn't any reason for it to fail unless the tune is way out of wack to begin with. And I really don't think that is the case simply from how it runs.
2/14/07, 11:32 AM
#29
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The rear o2 sensors are almost always turned off, in my tunes. The heater array switches in order to run a wideband, as well. I think the EVAP monitor can be turned back on with no problems?
CR
Tillman Speed
CR
Tillman Speed
2/14/07, 11:44 AM
#30
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Everything is cool now!!
I went back today at lunch for a "practice emissions test". Instead of having the 4 not ready monitors, I only had one, the evap monitor, WTF that is. The inspector didn't want to waste his time since I told him I made the changes (I didn't tell him exactly what I did, I just said I "fixed it") last night. "You need to put 100 miles, and drive it around so more, yadda, yadda.." I figured the stock tune would be all it would take to get the O2 sensors back online.
Anyway, now I have my inspection sticker for another year. Tonight, reinstall the CAI and 93 octane tune! I'm glad it's has easy as it is. However, if I go w/ high flow cats, or other exhaust mods, I could be in trouble come emissions testing time, right? Swapping LT headers & mid-pipes & hi-flow cats aint' something I want to do anually!?!?!! What will I do....
I went back today at lunch for a "practice emissions test". Instead of having the 4 not ready monitors, I only had one, the evap monitor, WTF that is. The inspector didn't want to waste his time since I told him I made the changes (I didn't tell him exactly what I did, I just said I "fixed it") last night. "You need to put 100 miles, and drive it around so more, yadda, yadda.." I figured the stock tune would be all it would take to get the O2 sensors back online.
Anyway, now I have my inspection sticker for another year. Tonight, reinstall the CAI and 93 octane tune! I'm glad it's has easy as it is. However, if I go w/ high flow cats, or other exhaust mods, I could be in trouble come emissions testing time, right? Swapping LT headers & mid-pipes & hi-flow cats aint' something I want to do anually!?!?!! What will I do....
2/14/07, 11:48 AM
#31
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Everything is cool now!!
I went back today at lunch for a "practice emissions test". Instead of having the 4 not ready monitors, I only had one, the evap monitor, WTF that is. The inspector didn't want to waste his time since I told him I made the changes (I didn't tell him exactly what I did, I just said I "fixed it") last night. "You need to put 100 miles, and drive it around so more, yadda, yadda.." I figured the stock tune would be all it would take to get the O2 sensors back online.
I went back today at lunch for a "practice emissions test". Instead of having the 4 not ready monitors, I only had one, the evap monitor, WTF that is. The inspector didn't want to waste his time since I told him I made the changes (I didn't tell him exactly what I did, I just said I "fixed it") last night. "You need to put 100 miles, and drive it around so more, yadda, yadda.." I figured the stock tune would be all it would take to get the O2 sensors back online.
I thought the EVAP was the one! Glad that worked out.
Anyway, now I have my inspection sticker for another year. Tonight, reinstall the CAI and 93 octane tune! I'm glad it's has easy as it is. However, if I go w/ high flow cats, or other exhaust mods, I could be in trouble come emissions testing time, right? Swapping LT headers & mid-pipes & hi-flow cats aint' something I want to do anually!?!?!! What will I do....
2/14/07, 11:52 AM
#32
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2/14/07, 11:57 AM
#33
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2/14/07, 01:14 PM
#34
2/14/07, 02:53 PM
#35
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It sounds like MILs on the O2 sensors might be the answer for the exhaust mods. If I understand correctly, the ECU will think the sensors are on and "ready" (so I can pass my OBD port based emissions test again), but they won't cause the ECU to throw a code with a modded exhaust (Headers O/R H or X, etc.).
2/14/07, 03:24 PM
#36
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2/14/07, 04:58 PM
#37
I didn't know you imported it.
2/14/07, 07:27 PM
#39
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
2/14/07, 07:37 PM
#40
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
