I ran my stock '05 GT at the Lime Rock CT road course last week for the first time, and the car was all I'd hoped it would be. I posted about the experience, and a couple folks replied that I should upgrade the brake pads at the very least if I'm going to do more road course HPDE events. Some people suggested Hawk pads, and some suggested EBC Yellow Stuff brake pads.

I looked on the Hawk website, and there are several choices: High Performance Street (HPS) and Performance Ceramic look like the two I should consider. Which one is right?

The car is my daily driver. I've done one road course event, and liked it (a lot!) , so maybe I would do 3 events per year starting next year. I drive about 8K miles per year commuting to work and so forth. So any upgrades I do are going to be mostly used for everyday street driving.

The other question is, do the Hawk pads provide better stopping power, or do they resist fade better, compared to OEM pads? Or both?

Like I said in my Lime Rock post, there's only one major braking section on the 1.5 mile track, so the brakes got a chance to cool down every lap, and I never noticed any fade at all after 30 laps. But then again, Lime Rock won't be the only road course that I'll try, so other courses likely would be harder on the brakes.

 

I have the HPS pads on my car. I was concerned that the ceramic pads would wear the rotors prematurely. I'm very happy with the HPS pads. The course I run on is a 1.8 mile course with 11 turns, and I am on the brakes a lot. Stock Mustang brakes won't cut it on that course, I've watched them. The Hawk pads stop better and provide much more reistance to fading. However, I also upgraded to SS lines, DOT 4 fluid, and a brake cooling kit at the same time, so I can't credit the Hawk pads with all the improvement. But they certainly will be an improvement over the factory pads.

Some may tell you that the ceramic pads are fine, and they may be. I'd also be interested in seeing what the Bullitt pads will be like. They are supposed to be an upgrade.

 

Humm ... if you didn't have any brake fade with the OEM brakes then you are either not going fast enough (and braking hard enough) or Lime Rock is too open of a circuit for 300 HP cars. Not bashing the course or yourself but the OEM brakes are borderline in my opinion. If you are using the stock Pirellis or any 4 season tire that could also explain why you did not have any brake fade.

I've ran my car on several tracks, some mickey mouse tracks and some large tracks and even the HPS would have not been sufficient. In fact, I run HP+ on the street and I hade major brake fade in one 20 min session on a small track since the brakes did not have time to cool down. BTW, I run R-Compound tire at track events (Toyo RA1 275/40R17 all around)

On a large track, the HP+ would have probably been sufficient but they would have wore in one track day or two. I have dedicated track pads and rotors (OEM) that I swap when I have a track event.

I tried a new pad this year and they lasted 6 tracks days; they still have about 1-2 days in them. They are made by Cobalt Friction:

http://www.cobaltfriction.com/

I used the XR2 in the front and XR3 in the rear; they are amazing in braking power, fade and durability. I would have gone through several HP+ during that period. They were a good investment !

Here are 2 videos of 2 tracks I went to this summer to give you an idea of the track and braking that was involved:

Le Circuit Mont-Tremblant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdpkiHoUUnc

Calabogie Motosport: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xW_QDoSEAI

 

1 year and 2 road course events my front HPS pads were about done for, the rears still look pretty decent. The course I ran was 3.5 miles and 21 turns. The 1st year was a scalding hot day, temp guage actually started going up towards 3/4 towards hot. Center caps shrank enough that I can spin them in the rims, brake dust was plenty. I ran it hard! But no brake fade from what I felt. These were 20 minute sessions all day long.

After getting use to these events the HPS pads may not be enough as you will get faster and harder on the car as you learn and may need even a better pad.
I can only afford to do these kinds of events once a year. Also she is my daily driver so I wanted a pad I could use for everyday use and not sound like a school bus.

 

I don't road course, but my HPSs are squealing like a stuck pig. Some say it's because of the colder weather. I'm about ready to yank them off and get some EBCs.

 

Haha, yeah mine did that more in the colder weather, and just about when you were doing 20 or less. Price you pay I guess.

Just last week I slapped the stocks back on the front. Rotors are still smooth, but man you can see the heat spots in them from a mile away. No squeeks. Just an occasional one from the rears

 

Yep, below 20. No hot spots on mine. Really considering the EBCs and having pig for dinner.

 

I was gonna say if your old HPS were still in good shape send em my way, but I forgot you were in Germany, lol.

 

Oh, it would definitely be me. Lime Rock track is a world class course - Roger Penske had the course record back in the '60s, and then Jacques Villeneuve had it in the '90s, and pretty much every big name racer you can think of has run there. There's nothing rinky dink or Mickey Mouse about it.

And yes, I was using the stock 17" Pirellis, with about 24K miles on them.

There is only one *major* braking area - that is Turn 1 at the end of the long front stretch. I hit almost 120 mph just before the braking area, and was able to slow to 50 or so to make the turn. But, I probably wasn't going into the turn as deep as I could before braking, and probably wasn't on the brakes as hard as I should either. It was my first event, and I know I have a long way to go as far as going fast and stopping hard.

I have a mechanic I've been going to for years, and I stopped to see him the other day, telling him about Lime Rock. He told me that he prepared two other '05-up Mustangs for Lime Rock in the last couple years. He put the FRPP FR3 Handling Kit on both, and said he went with Raybestos Super Duty (or Heavy Duty?) pads, along with DOT4 fluid that came in a blue metal can (I think it may have been from Germany, but not sure). The two guys came back later and told the mechanic the cars ran great at there...

Anyone else ever use Raybestos pads?

 

Eh, screw it. I just bought the EBC Redstuff pads. We'll see how those do.

 

It's only the cost of USPS, either Standard or Priority. Small box, little weight, can't cost more than a couple of $. I should have the pads in about 1 1/2 weeks (that's what sucks about being over here) and if they perform better and quieter than the HPSs, then you can have them. I just put them on about 5-6 months ago and like I said, no road course.

 

Raybestos make good pads too; I've never use them though.

I know Lime Rock by name & reputation so I knew it wasn't a Mickey Mouse track. When you'll go deeper in the curve, brake harder and have better tires you'll need better front pads. If you want to help your brakes to cool better, remove the brake dust shields; it helps. I also use Motul RBF600 DOT4 fluid and put some Earl's SS lines.

 

Yeah, even with just spirited driving, which means 100+ for me, the Earl's SS lines made a huge difference.

 

This stuff in the pic below? Its what I used. Too bad UPS threw the box from the truck when getting out to deliver.




Cool, let me know.

 

is that ate super blue? oh and if someone could share the bst way found to bleed out the brakes on a s197? i was thinking about getting a vacuum pump bleeder, or a motive power bleeder.

 

No but heres super blue, and where I got my fluid from
http://www.raceshopper.com/ate_brake_fluid.shtml

We have a brake flush machine at work
A hose hooks up to each bleeder and and adapter to the master cylinder and your off(sorta)

 

Yeah, that's the stuff I saw, ATE Super Blue!

 

def. dont have access to that

 

Earl's Speed Bleeders will get'er done.

Earl's Speed Bleeders

 

i use the hps pads and the work fine at the track i have 15 track days on mine and they still have 40% or so left. i also have the backing plates
removed.

agent 47 has a lower grill with cooling ducts built in and a hose kit to go with it but its kind of pricy

http://www.shop.agentfortyseven.com/product.sc?productId=31&categoryId=8

my stock pads and fluid lasted 5 laps( fluid boiled, and the pads turned orange and fell apart )sucked bad as i drive to and from the track.

the hawk pads squeek once in a while, but only after prolonged light use. when they start to squeek run it up to a hundie and mash the brakes, the squeek will be gone!

i use valvoline synpower brake fluid, it has similar boiling points to the super blue but they stock it at autozone ect and its only $6 per qt.

i also use the whole qt every time i flush the system

jay