Does anyone out there use these? I'm considering these for two reasons. First and foremost, the bushings don't ever need to be greased. Second, both the front and rear are slightly thicker than the bars from FRPP. If you happen to have the H&R's on your car, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Jon

 

What he said...

 

the ones im looking at are the hotckiss ones, they seem to be the largest one out of every company i have looked at.

 

you cant go wrong with Hotchkis, a little pricey, but totally worth it. As for H&R I have never had any first hand experience

 

Jon, why do you want thicker bars than the FRPP (Eibach) bars?

 

The front bar is only 1mm thicker than the FRPP. The rear bar is 2mm thicker and will help promote oversteer. Besides, the H&R bars have maintainance free bushings. Me being a bit lazy at times, having maintainance free bushings would be helpful.

 

The maintenance free bushings sound nice. I've had good luck with the Energy suspension grease--it is *very* sticky and lasts a long time, but those bushings sound nice.

1 mm in diameter makes a big difference in effective spring rate change of a roll bar, as it is a function of the bar's diameter ^4. The Eibach/FRPP bars increase the front by 1mm (from 34mm to 35mm) and it is a very noticable change. The rears increase to 24mm from the 20mm stock. Again, very noticable.

With the Eibach Prokit springs I've had the past 2-3 years (progressive front rate: 170-230 lbs/inch; rear rate: 110-200) I wouldn't want any more bar front or rear. If I go to heavier springs (e.g. 250+ linear rate up front), based on discussions with other S197 owners who track their cars, I would go back to the stock sway bars.

You may end up in a situation where the H&R bars are great with the stock springs (the old "light springs/heavy bars" vs. "heavy springs/light bars"), but when you go to a heavier aftermarket spring you may have a car that is giving up grip--but feels fast because it is flatter in turns.

The final handling characteristics will depend on the spring rates you go with. What are the spring rates for the H&R sport springs you are planning on getting?

 

Thanks for the info but I am quite confident in my ability to deal with the slight increase in oversteer given my background. Offhand, I don't know what the spring rates are for the H&R sport springs. They have been on the car since June and I'm very happy with them. Matching their anti-roll bars with their sport springs should also be a non-issue. I created this thread to see if anyone out there has or is using these bars so if anyone that is reading has these bars please post your thoughts.

 

I didn't realize you had already installed the H&R springs (based on your sig). You might want to give them a call and ask for the rates and make sure their bars are designed with their sport springs in mind. H&R makes several different setups for our cars.

I didn't discuss the increase in oversteer that will come with these bars--my point was simply that a heavier bar isn't always the best bar. There's a reason why the Koni Challenge FR500C S197's run stock front bars and no rear bar. The FR500S's run the FRPP bars. It's about spring rates and bar rates and how they work together.

But since you raise the issue, keep in mind that you will be increasing the rear bar rate by ~38% and the front by ~12% as compared to the FRPP bars. Again, without knowing spring rates of the H&R's this could mean the perfect setup, or it could turn into a handful to drive at the limit (or in the rain).

 

There are a lot of bars for these cars. Most are about the same size in front, but the rears are all over from 22mm to 26mm...'

FWIW, the FRPP bar are Eibach bars. They are 35/22mm. The H&R's are 36/26. That's not a little bit bigger in the rear, it's a lot, lot stiffer. Stock is 34/20, I think that was mentioned. Of the bars I deal with/use here's the list and sizes, as well as hollow or solid:
Note these aren't in any particular order....

Stock GT: 34 hollow/20 solid
GT500: 34 hollow/24 solid from what I recall
FRPP/Eibach: 35 hollow/22mm solid
Hellwig: 35 solid, adj./25 solid, adj.
Hotchkis: 38.1mm hollow, adj./25.4mm hollow, adj.
Progress: 35 hollow adj./25 solid

Bigger isn't always better--depends on the use. I think most folks over stiffen the rear vs. the front instead of working on the front grip first.

 

Here's a spreadsheet of swaybars sizes I've compiled, if anyone's interested. Some I've actually measured and own, others are second hand info off websites and forums. I assume no liability for the accuracy of the data.

 

Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

 

The rear is where it’s at. The Mustang has understeer built into it on purpose. Ford wants the car to understeer. To get a more neutral balance you need a stiffer rear bar. How thick is the question. Most people put stiffer front and rear bars on to eliminate body roll, that’s why they are usually sold in sets. Others go with stiffer springs to reduce roll. Depending on what springs you have you man not need anything larger in the front and only something a little stiffer in the rear to help with understeer. It all depends on how the car handles now.