GIG4FUN

I am not sure what LCA's to get (I welcome your input, I would like the "lightest weight"). I also will get the adjustable upper control arm.

I am not sure what the relocation brackets do for the car, it seems they may give a bit more leverage with weight transfer. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] Can someone enlighten me?

davids2toys

Not sure about the relocation brackets. I presently am going around and around with Steeda about their 555-4416 LCA. I have them and have had problems with the bushings, and the sleeves being to small, also a popping noise at real low speeds over small bumps or grades

CDGun

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GIG4FUN @ March 1, 2006, 10:48 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I am not sure what LCA's to get (I welcome your input, I would like the "lightest weight"). I also will get the adjustable upper control arm.

I am not sure what the relocation brackets do for the car, it seems they may give a bit more leverage with weight transfer. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img] Can someone enlighten me?
[/b][/quote]

The relocation brackets is needed if you install a beefed up Girdle cover on your rear end, due to the panhard being to close

GIG4FUN

The manufacturers are calling them "Anti Squat" brackets but Geez...I can't interpret that.

Geez again! (Sorry to hear about your problems with the Steeda's) I was gunna buy Steeda's LCA's. In shopping for them I find far too many choices to decide. Are there any stand-out LCA's that I should be considering?

Same goes for Adjustable Panhard rod. Too many choices!!!

Thanks guys....

hags1

Most seem pretty satisified with the BMR stuff.
Haven't read about too many complaints or problems.

hags

don_w

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CDGun @ March 2, 2006, 5:20 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The relocation brackets is needed if you install a beefed up Girdle cover on your rear end, due to the panhard being to close
[/b][/quote]
There are two relocation brackets (from BMR): one for the panhard (if you use a girdle), and another for the LCAs (to allow you to alter the instant center by varying the control arm angles).

The following items are on my rebuild "wish list":

BMR RS002 - Radiator Support/Sway Bar Delete
BMR TCA021 - Adjustable Lower "Street" Control Arms with poly bushing/rod-end combination
BMR UTCA020 - Adjustable Upper Control Arm w/spherical bearing
BMR PHR009K - Moser Cover, Panhard Relocation Bracket and Adjustable Panhard Rod
BMR CAB005 - Control Arm Relocation Brackets

Now all I need to do is find the cheapest place to get it all! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

spyder7724

LCA relocation brackets correct geometry issues created when lowering these cars. since the s197's have unequal length control arms(top and bottom are different lengths and way different!) lowering them shortens the instant center and lowers it also. when the IC is lowered it causes the car to "squat" when launching. some squat is okay but these cars have a tendency to do this from the factory anyway. this softens the initial hit on the tires and slows down 60' times and can cause wheel hop and chassis "unloading"(wheel spin that happens after launch usually about 60-100ft. down track). BMR and metco have done some heavy mathematics to correct these problems and the stuff works! my chassis guy is doing basically the same thing with mine but with a little different approach. i'll post pics when it's all done and i can test to make sure it works they way we think it will.

stkdidy

when you lower your car (both are side views of LCA):



connection to axle HHHHHH_
..........................................HHHHHH_
.................................................. .......HHHHHH front



stock (not lowered):


connection to axle HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH front



basically (dotted line is the LCA, btw), lowering the car makes ur LCA go from parallel to the road (and the direction you want to launch towards), to slanted up quite a bit. this severely diminishes the compressible stress limit of the LCA. it will not cause them to break or anything, but it redirects the energy of the launch into the ground, putting less of the static force of the tires forward, and more downward, causing the car to "squat" instead of take off hard in a direction parallel to the ground.





connection to axle (b r)
........................( a c k)
.........................(e t) HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH front

the bracket relocates where the LCA attaches to the axle, and thus fixes the problem.



any other input guys?

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spyder7724 @ March 2, 2006, 9:35 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
LCA relocation brackets correct geometry issues created when lowering these cars. since the s197's have unequal length control arms(top and bottom are different lengths and way different!) lowering them shortens the instant center and lowers it also. when the IC is lowered it causes the car to "squat" when launching. some squat is okay but these cars have a tendency to do this from the factory anyway. this softens the initial hit on the tires and slows down 60' times and can cause wheel hop and chassis "unloading"(wheel spin that happens after launch usually about 60-100ft. down track). BMR and metco have done some heavy mathematics to correct these problems and the stuff works! my chassis guy is doing basically the same thing with mine but with a little different approach. i'll post pics when it's all done and i can test to make sure it works they way we think it will.
[/b][/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't using lowering springs decrease squat? You are lowering the CG and most aftermarket springs have higher rates.

Cleveland

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stkdidy @ March 2, 2006, 8:24 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
when you lower your car (both are side views of LCA):
connection to axle HHHHHH_
..........................................HHHHHH_
.................................................. .......HHHHHH front
stock (not lowered):
connection to axle HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH front
basically (dotted line is the LCA, btw), lowering the car makes ur LCA go from parallel to the road (and the direction you want to launch towards), to slanted up quite a bit. this severely diminishes the compressible stress limit of the LCA. it will not cause them to break or anything, but it redirects the energy of the launch into the ground, putting less of the static force of the tires forward, and more downward, causing the car to "squat" instead of take off hard in a direction parallel to the ground.
connection to axle (b r)
........................( a c k)
.........................(e t) HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH front

the bracket relocates where the LCA attaches to the axle, and thus fixes the problem.
any other input guys?
[/b][/quote]
Alright, Im going to start from my begining and describe what each upgraded part does for traction and launch.

At stock ride height the stock LCAs are aimed slightly downward towards the rear and not very parallel to the ground. This directs the power where you want it but the bushings tend to deflect harshly and causes aggressive wheelhop.

Upon lowering the vehicle in the rear by more than 2.5" the stock LCAs are now aimed slightly upwards towards the rear. Weight transfer to the rear isnt even noticable anymore and the power is directed in a way to cause excessive wheelspin and wheelhop.

When I threw in the BMR LCAs (with rod ends) the wheelhop issue upon launch was completely removed but tire spin remained excessive. I knew that if I wanted to correct the geometry of the rear suspension and improve this traction issue the BMR weld-in brackets had to be installed.

I used the lowest of the 2 possible mounting points on the new relocation brackets to correct the angle of the LCAs to slightly downward towards the rear. If I would have used the upper mounting points the angle of the LCAs would seem to be parallel with the ground.

Im pretty well set with the corrected rearend with just those 2 mods but I do suggest Strange Drag Shocks for correcting weight transfer with lowering of the vehicle. The nose of the vehicle really does raise quite a bit when I put my foot into the pedal.

I just went for a few test drives today on my local streets to see if everything is up to par for returning to the track soon enough. I was shifting manually up to 6975 rpm (so says my Diablo Predator) and was wrecking the rear tires loose for more than a chirp on some lower rpm shifts. Everything went fine even though I did bounce the rev limiter twice. Shifting at 6500 gave the best results in tire spinning.





-Dan

spyder7724

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ March 2, 2006, 11:30 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't using lowering springs decrease squat? You are lowering the CG and most aftermarket springs have higher rates.
[/b][/quote]
yeah you can stop the actual squating of the spring but it still is trying to lift the rear tire up instead of pushing it into the ground. there is a really good site i found about a month ago that explains all of this very well i'll find it and post a link.

tkogt

it depends on the application

if your drag racing ( up to a point ) the down angle of the lcr's helps. the more power the car makes the harder
the car will hook. the down angle of the lcr's help with weight transfer. untill you put down so much power the transfer thing causes the car to "bog" ( face it unless your making 6 or 7 hunderd hp a little wheel spin at launch is a good thing )

if your road racing , the down angle helps with "bite" out of the corner, and helps with keeping the rear end
from raising up during hard braking, or causing premature rear brake lock up.

i have a 300 page book that i look at once in a while [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]

and i have 30+ full size diagrams drawn onto my garage walls( for my race car , it has a four link with endless setup possabilities) and i drag and road race it!!


jay

tkogt

ok, for the drag racers out there, the intersect point of the upper and lower control arms should be set at
62 inches in front of the rear axle centerline. and 3 inches above the ground at the 62 inch measurement.

this takes into consideration our wheelbase/ front to rear weight differance/ and engine set back from the front axle centerline.

(use as a starting point)


jay

traffic142

You guys are good. I get lost talking about geometry....protractors, compasses, etc.

Back to the origional post. Here are the choices:

talking basic street stuff, limited drag time, limited road racing

BMR non adj.
BMR adj.
Steeda non adj
Steeda billet bling

I chose steeda springs, but BMR is way cheaper and I was impressed by their panhard bar. I am looking at tying up the chassey with the following:

BMR Strut tower 189.99
BMR LCA non adj. 119.99
BMR A arm support bracket 59.99


What do you all feel about this plan?

side note (hijack thread) I also had read about sway bars and MM&FF suggests if you change out sway bars, do it as a set...ie: front and rear to keep them matched. I did not change out my struts and shocks when I did my springs (wife says we got to buy groceries and pay for lights and phone).

max2000jp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(traffic142 @ March 5, 2006, 11:53 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
side note (hijack thread) I also had read about sway bars and MM&FF suggests if you change out sway bars, do it as a set...ie: front and rear to keep them matched. I did not change out my struts and shocks when I did my springs (wife says we got to buy groceries and pay for lights and phone).
[/b][/quote]

I have been researching suspension peices for a while, since I plan on tracking my car. I've read reviews on this site about F/R sway bar kits and they seem to work. On the other hand, Multimatic and Ford Racing did extensive track testing on the FR500C and if you look under the rear end, it doesn't have a rear sway bar.

scramblr

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cleveland @ March 3, 2006, 6:02 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Alright, Im going to start from my begining and describe what each upgraded part does for traction and launch.

At stock ride height the stock LCAs are aimed slightly downward towards the rear and not very parallel to the ground. This directs the power where you want it but the bushings tend to deflect harshly and causes aggressive wheelhop.

Upon lowering the vehicle in the rear by more than 2.5" the stock LCAs are now aimed slightly upwards towards the rear. Weight transfer to the rear isnt even noticable anymore and the power is directed in a way to cause excessive wheelspin and wheelhop.

When I threw in the BMR LCAs (with rod ends) the wheelhop issue upon launch was completely removed but tire spin remained excessive. I knew that if I wanted to correct the geometry of the rear suspension and improve this traction issue the BMR weld-in brackets had to be installed.

I used the lowest of the 2 possible mounting points on the new relocation brackets to correct the angle of the LCAs to slightly downward towards the rear. If I would have used the upper mounting points the angle of the LCAs would seem to be parallel with the ground.

Im pretty well set with the corrected rearend with just those 2 mods but I do suggest Strange Drag Shocks for correcting weight transfer with lowering of the vehicle. The nose of the vehicle really does raise quite a bit when I put my foot into the pedal.

I just went for a few test drives today on my local streets to see if everything is up to par for returning to the track soon enough. I was shifting manually up to 6975 rpm (so says my Diablo Predator) and was wrecking the rear tires loose for more than a chirp on some lower rpm shifts. Everything went fine even though I did bounce the rev limiter twice. Shifting at 6500 gave the best results in tire spinning.


-Dan
[/b][/quote]

Thanks for the explanation...Very clear. You mentioned if lowering the car by more than 2.5" in the rear. What if lowered 1" to 1.75"? Planning on getting BMR LCAs but wondering if I need the brackets.

traffic142

me too. I used steeda springs that dropped the rear 1.5 inches. Do I need the lowering brackets as well.

BTW is it new arms don't bend under the stress as do the OEM or is it the bushings that matter?