Original Sin

I'd sure appreciate some feedback from anyone in the know about the handful of systems out there - Vortech, Pro-Charger versus Whipple (or general twin screw type) - seeing that FRP has decided to use Whipple. Guess it's on its way soon, the part number is already on FRP's website.

I'm not asking for a performance breakdown for each type 'cause there's lots of strings devoted to specific installs. More like the pros/cons for Whipple (twin screw) versus the others.

Thoughts or opinions are appreciated - thanks, Mark

TehSLeeper

Well it's a positive displacement blower, and they love to whine. That could go either way, I personally love blower whine. Positive Displacement vs. Centrifigual is kind of a personal preference really. Positive displacement blowers are better at developing more low end power while centrifigual are better in the mid to higher rev range. I don't know much about swapping pulleys on Centrifiguals but one a p.d. blower it's pretty easy and cheap. Personally I prefer p.d. blowers, I'm pretty sure they produce more heat but I love the whine and the superior low end torque.

The Boss Hog

I agree with what Jonathan said except for the heat. Results vary with brand but as a general rule-of-thumb, the screw-type produces the least heat (compression takes place in the s/c) while the roots type produces the most heat (compression takes place in the intake manifold). Either way, the intercoolers they have in these systems takes care of the heat problem.

One other thing to consider when choosing between Positive Displacement and Centrifical is Centrifical responds to other changes you make more than the PD does.

The Boss Hog

don_w

Believe it or not, the Kenne Bell and Saleen twin screws are very quiet. Not much whine at at all, if any. But gobs of low end torque for sure! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] I have heard both of these up close and personal, as well as Vortech and Procharger centris, and the centris are actually louder. Can't comment on the Whipple... cuz you can't get one yet!

Original Sin

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(don_w @ February 11, 2006, 10:44 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Believe it or not, the Kenne Bell and Saleen twin screws are very quiet. Not much whine at at all, if any. But gobs of low end torque for sure! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img] I have heard both of these up close and personal, as well as Vortech and Procharger centris, and the centris are actually louder. Can't comment on the Whipple... cuz you can't get one yet!
[/b][/quote]

But soon Don, very soon.

Thanks so far guys, interesting comments but I'm inclined to probably appreciate the low end torque 'cause there's lots more opportunity for 0-60 runs (ie every day driving) versus timed q. miles. Also couldn't help but notice that setups & hardware for the twin screw types were very neat compared to the complex Vortec and Procharger set-ups (with their winding intakes, etc.) It'll be interesting to see what FRP prices their Whipple at.....and even more interesting to see if a competent Ford dealer will install it and honour the car's warranty (a la Roush).

Boomer

I'm in the same frame of mind Mark....

Waiting to see how much the FR4 SuperPak costs...
and time of release.

If I remember correctly... it was around Jan/Feb that they were going to finalize prices and numbers etc.
So we should see it soon!

Original Sin

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boomer @ February 11, 2006, 12:26 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'm in the same frame of mind Mark....

Waiting to see how much the FR4 SuperPak costs...
and time of release.

If I remember correctly... it was around Jan/Feb that they were going to finalize prices and numbers etc.
So we should see it soon!
[/b][/quote]

And as an FYI mister.....it's because of YOU that I'm asking about this stuff all of a sudden. I'd of been happy with just gears and exhaust but noooo.....you've got to go on and on about Roush and Superpaks and "you know, the dealer will warranty the car if they put it in" kind of stuff. YOU and TMS are becoming very expensive friends. But wouldn't it be cool if we made it to Cayuga this year and a bunch of us had......well you know the rest!!

wsmatau

Mark,
Well, my .02 is that I am impatiently waiting on the Whipple and have been since February of last year. My local Whipple dealer says they will be here within the month, so that is good news.
Here is one thing that no one has mentioned. Admittedly, the twin screws were not the first S/C available for the S197s, but I haven't heard of one grenading the engine yet. One can easily find a hanful of centris that have with a simple search of the boards. I have read arguments that twin-screws apply an excessive amount of stress down low in the powerband (which can normally be solved with an upgraded clutch). But the centris tend to bring boost and power on so rapidly, and at the highest RPMs, I believe that is where the failures are happening for the cars with 425-450 hp.
In the mean time we all must sit and wait...ARRRRGGGGG [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]

Original Sin

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wsmatau @ February 11, 2006, 3:04 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Mark,
Well, my .02 is that I am impatiently waiting on the Whipple and have been since February of last year. My local Whipple dealer says they will be here within the month, so that is good news.
Here is one thing that no one has mentioned. Admittedly, the twin screws were not the first S/C available for the S197s, but I haven't heard of one grenading the engine yet. One can easily find a hanful of centris that have with a simple search of the boards. I have read arguments that twin-screws apply an excessive amount of stress down low in the powerband (which can normally be solved with an upgraded clutch). But the centris tend to bring boost and power on so rapidly, and at the highest RPMs, I believe that is where the failures are happening for the cars with 425-450 hp.
In the mean time we all must sit and wait...ARRRRGGGGG [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Well like I said earlier, with FRP having the Part # on-line (and it's only a recent addition), it won't be too much longer. Anyways, interesting points you made (which I'm sure will be debated by the centri guys), so thanks Frank!!!

AnotherMustangMan

The centri is good because it doesnt put added stress on the engine unless youre beating on it. But conversely, that means you only "feel" it when youre driving extra-legally, and if youre gonna spend $5k on something, youre going to want to enjoy it more often than that.

I would absolutely go for the twin screw.

RadBOSS

Looking at the Whipple spec's and prototype photos it looks to have the largest radiator for the intercooler compared to the others ... that spells better heat transfer (cooling) capability. Cooler air charge = more HP (every 10 deg F cooler is worth 1% HP gain).

I really don't see where the centrifugal has a leg up on a positive displacement SC. The boost is only a little more throttle depression away.

One thing to keep in mind is the HO (tuner kit) is not CARB approved, where as the HO (10-12 psi) kit is.

Original Sin

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RadBOSS @ February 11, 2006, 10:10 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Looking at the Whipple spec's and prototype photos it looks to have the largest radiator for the intercooler compared to the others ... that spells better heat transfer (cooling) capability. Cooler air charge = more HP (every 10 deg F cooler is worth 1% HP gain).

I really don't see where the centrifugal has a leg up on a positive displacement SC. The boost is only a little more throttle depression away.

One thing to keep in mind is the HO (tuner kit) is not CARB approved, where as the HO (10-12 psi) kit is.
[/b][/quote]

I knew I'd find a reason not to love living in California !!!

Boomer

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Original Sin @ February 11, 2006, 1:37 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
And as an FYI mister.....it's because of YOU that I'm asking about this stuff all of a sudden. I'd of been happy with just gears and exhaust but noooo.....you've got to go on and on about Roush and Superpaks and "you know, the dealer will warranty the car if they put it in" kind of stuff. YOU and TMS are becoming very expensive friends. But wouldn't it be cool if we made it to Cayuga this year and a bunch of us had......well you know the rest!!
[/b][/quote]

Sure sure... blame me...
Whatever helps you sleep at night...
hahahaha...

Does your wife tell you to stop talking to me because i'm a bad influence ?!?! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img]

sranger

Well,

In a way we already know how the Whipple will preform. It will preform more or less like the Saleen and KB which are of similar compressor designs. In fact the Saleen is running the Whipple made twin screws...

There are thing I like a dislike about all of the kits. I like the looks of the saleen and fact that it can make significan hp at low boost pressures and has a efficient intercooler.

Here are the pro's and cons of the most popular Twin Screw kits:

Saleen:
Pro:
Best looks ( opinion only ), Good hp from low boost pressures. Excellent low and mid range torque. The air flow into the cylinder is less restrictive with the inverted design.

Con:
The kit is not complete unless you go with a tuner kit ( Like JDM ) where they have added all of the extra stuff you will need.

KB:

Pro:
Good HP and Torque. Sold by manufacture as a complete kit. All Tuner vendors must be approved to sell the kits.

Con:
The location of the air induction is not desirable if you drive in wet weather often... No tune is currently avaliable for the Automatic ( You will need a custom tune and few tuners can handle this right now.. )


Whipple: Not enough data for form an opinion...



If you compare PSI for PSI, I suspect that they will all make about the same hp...

The choice really just boils down to looks, ease of Installation and completeness of the kit...

I think the real issue is completeness of the kit. You want 39lb injectors, a 90mm MAF, and a BAP if you want to go above 450rwhp. You also need a solid tune. This is especially tricky with the automatic cars...

Original Sin

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sranger @ February 12, 2006, 12:41 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Well,

In a way we already know how the Whipple will preform. It will preform more or less like the Saleen and KB which are of similar compressor designs. In fact the Saleen is running the Whipple made twin screws...

There are thing I like a dislike about all of the kits. I like the looks of the saleen and fact that it can make significan hp at low boost pressures and has a efficient intercooler.

Here are the pro's and cons of the most popular Twin Screw kits:

Saleen:
Pro:
Best looks ( opinion only ), Good hp from low boost pressures. Excellent low and mid range torque. The air flow into the cylinder is less restrictive with the inverted design.

Con:
The kit is not complete unless you go with a tuner kit ( Like JDM ) where they have added all of the extra stuff you will need.

KB:

Pro:
Good HP and Torque. Sold by manufacture as a complete kit. All Tuner vendors must be approved to sell the kits.

Con:
The location of the air induction is not desirable if you drive in wet weather often... No tune is currently avaliable for the Automatic ( You will need a custom tune and few tuners can handle this right now.. )
Whipple: Not enough data for form an opinion...
If you compare PSI for PSI, I suspect that they will all make about the same hp...

The choice really just boils down to looks, ease of Installation and completeness of the kit...

I think the real issue is completeness of the kit. You want 39lb injectors, a 90mm MAF, and a BAP if you want to go above 450rwhp. You also need a solid tune. This is especially tricky with the automatic cars...
[/b][/quote]

Yeah, I've gathered that from the Roush delay, etc. so I'm hoping the engineers at Whipple (and Roush for that matter) get things ironed out so that auto packages are offered. With people like Lidio (Alt. Auto) and Doug (Bamachips) out there, I've got faith. Hopefully the supercharger people can get ahold of expertise like they have.

RadBOSS

Well all things being equal. Assuming the compressor efficency is equivalent, cold air set up is the same and the basic tune is the same (mixture / ign advance) I think the size of the air to water intercooler and the size of the radiator (even more important)supporting it has the potential to make the biggest difference in performance. From the photos's i have seen, Whhipple looks to have them beat.

I suppose the Saleen looks the coolest, and maybe the inlet to the blower looks deceiving, but to me it looks more restrictive.

wsmatau

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sranger @ February 12, 2006, 11:41 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
In fact the Saleen is running the Whipple made twin screws...
[/b][/quote]

Are you sure about that? Whipple is no longer using Lysholm compressors. I know both companies used to use them. I thought Saleen stayed with Lysholm, whereas Whipple started building solely for themselves. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]

GOFISCH

Whipples website has a release date of 4/03/06. Anyone know the gains on the non-intercooled unit?

70MACH1OWNER

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GOFISCH @ February 12, 2006, 4:27 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Whipples website has a release date of 4/03/06. Anyone know the gains on the non-intercooled unit?
[/b][/quote]



About 1/3 less than the intercooled version lb for lb. Spend the extra bucks and go intercooled. It is worth it in more ways than just getting a little more HP. It is also much easier on your engine. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drool.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drool.gif[/img]
Scott

Boomer

Wonder if the Ford kit will be intercooled?