FRPP 3V Intake
4/29/10, 08:21 AM
#81
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Nope. The projection is about the build...not a part of the build like the motor.
The build would likely include major upgrades in fuel, transmission, rearend, intake manifold, and all the other upgrades needed to support the increase in boost/power. From my own experience and listening to others that have done extreme builds... you go 3 steps forward and often 2 steps backward...and all the time, the meter is running.
The build would likely include major upgrades in fuel, transmission, rearend, intake manifold, and all the other upgrades needed to support the increase in boost/power. From my own experience and listening to others that have done extreme builds... you go 3 steps forward and often 2 steps backward...and all the time, the meter is running.
Hey, I'm just messing with you, I know that's totally unreasonable, but there is one guy here that assured us that he can make that happen with around $3k, total 
. Anyways, I don't think we can steer this thread back until someone gets one of the manifolds, installs it, dyno, and posts results.
4/29/10, 08:57 AM
#82
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thread back until someone gets one of the manifolds, installs it, dyno, and posts results.
4/29/10, 09:51 AM
#83
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Are you still using the C&L Manifold in your car? if you are, what are your thoughts? I have one of the original runs in my storage that I have to send to C&L to get remachined...
I don't think the FRPP is going to make any more power than the C&L, where I think the FRPP will surpass the C&L is weight.
I don't think the FRPP is going to make any more power than the C&L, where I think the FRPP will surpass the C&L is weight.
4/29/10, 11:50 AM
#84
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Well it was only on my car for a little while before the motor gave out. It made good power but it's really hard to tell how much. I like the C&L because I know how much effort went into designing it. I also really like the fact how it distributes air flow better than the stocker and eliminates lean cylinders under some conditions. This is the main purpose of the manifold. Only under extreme conditions will it pick up big horsepower. I haven't run it since it got remachined.
Well, I'm off to change the oil in my car... ROFL! This thread is great!
4/29/10, 02:35 PM
#85
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Make a thread about it. And make sure that thread goes 10+ pages with people arguing over the characteristics of each brand of oil and which ones to stay away from, because it takes the absolute best oil ever to run a 300bhp stock motor. And then another thread in a week to tell everyone that the new oil is doing great.
5/1/10, 11:49 PM
#86
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Make a thread about it. And make sure that thread goes 10+ pages with people arguing over the characteristics of each brand of oil and which ones to stay away from, because it takes the absolute best oil ever to run a 300bhp stock motor. And then another thread in a week to tell everyone that the new oil is doing great.
5/2/10, 12:02 AM
#87
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So now you're just trying to hold that the pistons will work? You've argued nothing I've said. You're talking to no one. There's a big difference between billet and built as far as how much a shortblock costs. If you get one in your car for 5k, which you can do, it won't do any kind of high RPM or even be able to handle big boost.
I will say this is one of the few times I've actually agreed with a point your attempting to make on the boards though.
5/2/10, 08:19 PM
#88
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5/2/10, 08:24 PM
#89
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Stock stroke mod motor yes, the stroker would be a honda journal and I would only recommend it on a case by case basis. If your revving 9500 you don't need the stroke because obviously your pushing the RPM. Our stock stroke crank is standard journal size, slap some L-19's in the rods and rev with it 
5/2/10, 11:10 PM
#90
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I had toyed with the idea of a high rev mod motor + turbo but I just couldn't find a way to do it on any kind of sane budget. Going where not many have gone before costs a lot. Hence my strong opinion on the subject.
5/2/10, 11:48 PM
#91
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When it comes to what your talking about the most expensive part is obviously the heads. I would feel comfortable shifting at 9 without an issue assuming they can handle it, and you could build stupid power (sub 1000 most likely) depending on the combination and still have excellent drive ability on the street. Or as excellent as a car of that nature can
If this was something you were still entertaining I say stock stroke crank, L19 bolts in the rods, and a custom set of pistons to stuff into a big bore block 
I don't want to turn this into a sales pitch, feel free to PM me if you'd like and I can point out what design cues back up my statements. And trust me on the new ground statement I understand, ruined new valves and pistons when we realized what effect aftermarket cams had on VCT. It's wonderful when company's let their customers be the guinea pigs! There are a lot better options when it comes to parts on the market these days.
Last edited by EagleStroker; 5/2/10 at 11:49 PM.
5/3/10, 04:30 AM
#92
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So what happened to forged pistons cannot handle 9k? And that magical 50K$$ billet crank? As far as I can tell I never said anything about a 3k budget, but you seem to ASSume? Ok, go with that then. Cant help your ASSumptions there, you are what you are.
I quote from you that mod motors cant handle anything over 7k, then we got a guy saying some customers shift @ 10.5k? Then you ridicule the fact the motor wont handle it at all and blow in short order? However its you who has blown this magical turbo engine you have sunken lots of money in. I can only assume your motor wont last simply because your probably busting your builders ***** to the point where he is going cross eyed.
In any case you should switch from supposedly building cars & racing to running your mouth as a politician. I bet you can win more races running your mouth.
Also I bet an aluminator short block probably can handle what you were throwing at it. That can be had for about 3400-3500 bux shipped depending on which ford racing dealer you deal with. Couple that with 10-15 hours of assembly time for your builder & you got a stout boost capable engine for around 5k.
Brenspeed is offering their short blocks in 5.0L stroker form for about 3800, all forged too.
So where is your 50k coming from? Because if your dropping 50k on an engine, might as well buy a ford racing 5.4L engine and drop it in. Proven to handle 700+hp for 13k + 3k for a motec or similar unit and go to town.
Grow a pair, your just angry because you have misspent allot of your supposed money on a pile of junk & now your angry because it wont work. The worlds smallest violin is playing for you as I write this.
Have a great day!!!!
I quote from you that mod motors cant handle anything over 7k, then we got a guy saying some customers shift @ 10.5k? Then you ridicule the fact the motor wont handle it at all and blow in short order? However its you who has blown this magical turbo engine you have sunken lots of money in. I can only assume your motor wont last simply because your probably busting your builders ***** to the point where he is going cross eyed.
In any case you should switch from supposedly building cars & racing to running your mouth as a politician. I bet you can win more races running your mouth.
Also I bet an aluminator short block probably can handle what you were throwing at it. That can be had for about 3400-3500 bux shipped depending on which ford racing dealer you deal with. Couple that with 10-15 hours of assembly time for your builder & you got a stout boost capable engine for around 5k.
Brenspeed is offering their short blocks in 5.0L stroker form for about 3800, all forged too.
So where is your 50k coming from? Because if your dropping 50k on an engine, might as well buy a ford racing 5.4L engine and drop it in. Proven to handle 700+hp for 13k + 3k for a motec or similar unit and go to town.
Grow a pair, your just angry because you have misspent allot of your supposed money on a pile of junk & now your angry because it wont work. The worlds smallest violin is playing for you as I write this.
Have a great day!!!!
5/3/10, 09:45 AM
#94
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I quote from you that mod motors cant handle anything over 7k, then we got a guy saying some customers shift @ 10.5k? Then you ridicule the fact the motor wont handle it at all and blow in short order? However its you who has blown this magical turbo engine you have sunken lots of money in. I can only assume your motor wont last simply because your probably busting your builders ***** to the point where he is going cross eyed.
All forged is not created equally, just an assembly made to handle that RPM and survive is going to cost more than that short block.
Assembly (Crank ($1000), rods and bolt upgrade (550), custom pistons (1000), balance (300), Bearings ($300)
Sleeved block (2700) + cost of block (2-300)
Miscellaneous ARP fasteners (500)
Quality harmonic balancer (300)
Melling billet oil pump with TSS billet gears (450)
Baffled/trapped oil pan (500)
8 Bolt Flex plate/flywheel (300)
And that my friend is just a short block built to handle the RPM. $8100 and I haven't even gotten to the expensive parts yet. From what I have read you were not discussing a plain jane motor that could get away with it, you were talking about a purpose built platform.
Fancy seeing you around here
pass the popcorn.
Last edited by EagleStroker; 5/3/10 at 10:10 AM.
5/3/10, 11:41 AM
#95
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Go ahead and quote where I said the pistons were the problem.
Quote that too.
Once again, you completely don't understand what he's talking about. Or what I was saying for that matter. Never once have I said it COULDN'T be done. Of course it can be done. It's not cost effective though.
So who's ASSuming things now? Pretty sure I've never paid for a mod motor to turn more than 7k.
I'm sorry but what car do you race? What car have you built? Once again, just because you go surf the internet like a pro doesn't mean you can act like you've built a **** car.
Oh look more internet shopping for the pro internet racer slash engine builder. Stunning.
Oh look the dip**** thinks he knows something about what I've done. How cute. And yes, my just angry.
So you have completely misunderstood everything I have said to this point. When you develop an IQ above room temperature levels, I'll continue the discussion. Go build your stupid motor and prove me wrong, until then you're just another internet dreamer that won't build ****.
Quote that too.
Then you ridicule the fact the motor wont handle it at all and blow in short order? However its you who has blown this magical turbo engine you have sunken lots of money in. I can only assume your motor wont last simply because your probably busting your builders ***** to the point where he is going cross eyed.
Also I bet an aluminator short block probably can handle what you were throwing at it. That can be had for about 3400-3500 bux shipped depending on which ford racing dealer you deal with. Couple that with 10-15 hours of assembly time for your builder & you got a stout boost capable engine for around 5k.
Brenspeed is offering their short blocks in 5.0L stroker form for about 3800, all forged too.
Brenspeed is offering their short blocks in 5.0L stroker form for about 3800, all forged too.
So you have completely misunderstood everything I have said to this point. When you develop an IQ above room temperature levels, I'll continue the discussion. Go build your stupid motor and prove me wrong, until then you're just another internet dreamer that won't build ****.
5/3/10, 12:15 PM
#96
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Some more interesting stuff I found digging around a little.
Pretty sure 50k is at least 30k. Oh and 10,000,000 RPM is a lot to ask for.
PS: You should be careful about posting your license plate number on the web, people can pull tons of info with that kind of information.
a better question would be how deep are your pockets?
For example, you get forged internals and shave them for minimal weight and balance them highly.
Take the heads and port them as much as possible.
Increase compression ratio as close to 13:1 as posible.
Get a custom ground cams designed for very high rpm.
Replace all the valves with titanium valves
Get some very high rpm springs (~10,000k rpm)
Replace the stock intake manifold with short velocity stacks.
Get some fine mist injectors ~39lb injectors balanced ofcourse.
GT500fuel pumps
One piece drive shaft
4:33+ gears
Very free flowing exhaust
and a very good tuner and builder
That combo should net close to or over 500rwhp with probably around 380-410lb of torque. The car will also idle around 1500rpm, and net you around 8mpg if your lucky. You will also be lucky to get 50k miles out of it.
All in all, at least 30k.
For example, you get forged internals and shave them for minimal weight and balance them highly.
Take the heads and port them as much as possible.
Increase compression ratio as close to 13:1 as posible.
Get a custom ground cams designed for very high rpm.
Replace all the valves with titanium valves
Get some very high rpm springs (~10,000k rpm)
Replace the stock intake manifold with short velocity stacks.
Get some fine mist injectors ~39lb injectors balanced ofcourse.
GT500fuel pumps
One piece drive shaft
4:33+ gears
Very free flowing exhaust
and a very good tuner and builder
That combo should net close to or over 500rwhp with probably around 380-410lb of torque. The car will also idle around 1500rpm, and net you around 8mpg if your lucky. You will also be lucky to get 50k miles out of it.
All in all, at least 30k.
PS: You should be careful about posting your license plate number on the web, people can pull tons of info with that kind of information.
5/3/10, 12:26 PM
#97
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Hell, for kicks and giggles (since I missed that post) this is a price sheet from Brian @ Kinsler on the velocity stacks alone:
Kinsler injection manifold assembly for Ford Modular V8 oval 3,601.55
port, standard port profile, 2 1/4" throttles, aluminum
castings. Throttle shafts, bronze throttle shaft bushings,
and butterflies. Cast aluminum top adapters with spun aluminum
ram tubes. KFI bolt-on TPS boss for throttle position sensor.
Universal nozzle boss adapters for EFI injectors.
Includes shear plate for center valley on 4.6 or 5.4 engine.
Manifold stands approximately 8.25” tall with 3.5” ram tubes.
Pair of aluminum fuel rails with AN threaded ends, includes 522.60
6AN adapter fittings, stanchions, and bolt kit for mounting.
Electronic engine management system, includes: ECU 2,836.50
Electronic control unit, model: Accel Gen VII+ system
for fuel and EDIS spark control, and OEM style wiring harness.
Includes software, manual, and communications cable.
Coolant temperature sensor, air temperature sensor, throttle
position sensor (TPS)#10682, manifold absolute pressure (MAP)
sensor, manifold surface temperature sensor with billet mount,
and 4 wire O2 sensor. (EDIS ignition not included, 8250 maximum RPM)
(8) EFI injectors, #10155, 36 lb./hr., fuel up to ~600 HP @ 55 PSI. 423.20
Adjustable pressure relief valve, K-140 model with vacuum 453.85
reference and 6AN fittings. #12104, ~34-80 PSI adjustment range.
“Monster Mesh” 10 micron fuel filter, 8AN male flare ends. 154.10
Includes spare replacement element.
“Monster Mesh” Pump Protector inlet filter, 25 micron stainless 151.20
mesh element, with 8AN male flare ends.
In-line Fuel pump, 12-volt, moderate pressure and volume, 235.20
Kinsler P.N.22002. Capable of supplying a 650 HP engine at
60 PSI. 8AN male flare inlet fitting and outlet fitting.
Includes pump mounting kit, Kinsler P.N. 22008.
Bosch LSU wide band exhaust gas oxygen sensor and signal 499.00
conditioning module with internal data logger.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL: $ 8,877.20
CONTINUED ON PAGE #2
PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE
File: EFIFord-MODULAR-V8-GenVII-09.DOC
KINSLER FUEL INJECTION Date: 1-12-09
1834 Thunderbird
Troy, Michigan 48084 USA
Tel (248) 362-1145
Fax (248) 362-1032
www.kinsler.com
KINSLER MANIFOLD and Electronics for FORD MODULAR V8 ENGINE
================================================== ===========================
Description Dealer Price
OPTIONS:
Manifold Absolute Pressure Reference Log System, (for use on 304.15
individual runner manifolds), consists of: blue anodized billet
log, quick-release adapter fittings for log and runners of manifold,
and hose connecting. Includes labor for machining manifold for fittings.
Idle Air Control log system; includes special 3AN x 1/16 pipe 471.05
fittings, billet aluminum distribution block, labor to drill,
tap, and install fittings into manifold runners, and IAC motor
with remote housing and air filter.
(Custom hoses are ordered separately per application)
Upgrade manifold assembly with 2.0” or 2 3/16” throttles for 139.25
improved throttle control on engines with less than ~500 H.P.
Center-pull bell crank linkage kit; includes bell crank bearing, 282.85
arms, hex link assembly, hardware, and installation on center plate.
( For installation with “Over and Under” cross hex linkage ).
Fuel pump, #10211, flows ~ 420 lbs./hr. at 50 PSI. Complete with 399.40
10AN inlet fitting and 8AN outlet one way check valve fitting.
Pump mounting bracket, saddle type with (2) clamps and (3) 71.40
cushioned mounting holes.
Base program ECU for customer's application off the flow bench. 472.40
Bench test ECU for operational integrity and base program ECU for 915.90
customer's application on the flow bench.
“Swing Set” Linkage kit; for attachment to the center plate. 404.95
Includes billet ‘U’ stand with ball bearing shaft supports in each
upright leg, throttle shaft, shaft stop, throttle rotational stop,
throttle arms at each end with (2) hex rod assemblies that connect
to the arms on the manifold end shafts. (This linkage allows equal
opening of counter rotation throttle shafts and requires approximately
3.5” at the rear of the engine past the number 8 cylinder intake bolt.)
*** NOTE ****
Horsepower rated at 0.5 Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC).
Systems may vary per application, please call regarding your specific needs.
PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE
I also have one on a pretty trick dry sump set up, for anyone interested.
http://s197forum.com/forum/showthrea...hrottle+bodies
http://s197forum.com/forum/showthrea...light=dry+sump
Kinsler injection manifold assembly for Ford Modular V8 oval 3,601.55
port, standard port profile, 2 1/4" throttles, aluminum
castings. Throttle shafts, bronze throttle shaft bushings,
and butterflies. Cast aluminum top adapters with spun aluminum
ram tubes. KFI bolt-on TPS boss for throttle position sensor.
Universal nozzle boss adapters for EFI injectors.
Includes shear plate for center valley on 4.6 or 5.4 engine.
Manifold stands approximately 8.25” tall with 3.5” ram tubes.
Pair of aluminum fuel rails with AN threaded ends, includes 522.60
6AN adapter fittings, stanchions, and bolt kit for mounting.
Electronic engine management system, includes: ECU 2,836.50
Electronic control unit, model: Accel Gen VII+ system
for fuel and EDIS spark control, and OEM style wiring harness.
Includes software, manual, and communications cable.
Coolant temperature sensor, air temperature sensor, throttle
position sensor (TPS)#10682, manifold absolute pressure (MAP)
sensor, manifold surface temperature sensor with billet mount,
and 4 wire O2 sensor. (EDIS ignition not included, 8250 maximum RPM)
(8) EFI injectors, #10155, 36 lb./hr., fuel up to ~600 HP @ 55 PSI. 423.20
Adjustable pressure relief valve, K-140 model with vacuum 453.85
reference and 6AN fittings. #12104, ~34-80 PSI adjustment range.
“Monster Mesh” 10 micron fuel filter, 8AN male flare ends. 154.10
Includes spare replacement element.
“Monster Mesh” Pump Protector inlet filter, 25 micron stainless 151.20
mesh element, with 8AN male flare ends.
In-line Fuel pump, 12-volt, moderate pressure and volume, 235.20
Kinsler P.N.22002. Capable of supplying a 650 HP engine at
60 PSI. 8AN male flare inlet fitting and outlet fitting.
Includes pump mounting kit, Kinsler P.N. 22008.
Bosch LSU wide band exhaust gas oxygen sensor and signal 499.00
conditioning module with internal data logger.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL: $ 8,877.20
CONTINUED ON PAGE #2
PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE
File: EFIFord-MODULAR-V8-GenVII-09.DOC
KINSLER FUEL INJECTION Date: 1-12-09
1834 Thunderbird
Troy, Michigan 48084 USA
Tel (248) 362-1145
Fax (248) 362-1032
www.kinsler.com
KINSLER MANIFOLD and Electronics for FORD MODULAR V8 ENGINE
================================================== ===========================
Description Dealer Price
OPTIONS:
Manifold Absolute Pressure Reference Log System, (for use on 304.15
individual runner manifolds), consists of: blue anodized billet
log, quick-release adapter fittings for log and runners of manifold,
and hose connecting. Includes labor for machining manifold for fittings.
Idle Air Control log system; includes special 3AN x 1/16 pipe 471.05
fittings, billet aluminum distribution block, labor to drill,
tap, and install fittings into manifold runners, and IAC motor
with remote housing and air filter.
(Custom hoses are ordered separately per application)
Upgrade manifold assembly with 2.0” or 2 3/16” throttles for 139.25
improved throttle control on engines with less than ~500 H.P.
Center-pull bell crank linkage kit; includes bell crank bearing, 282.85
arms, hex link assembly, hardware, and installation on center plate.
( For installation with “Over and Under” cross hex linkage ).
Fuel pump, #10211, flows ~ 420 lbs./hr. at 50 PSI. Complete with 399.40
10AN inlet fitting and 8AN outlet one way check valve fitting.
Pump mounting bracket, saddle type with (2) clamps and (3) 71.40
cushioned mounting holes.
Base program ECU for customer's application off the flow bench. 472.40
Bench test ECU for operational integrity and base program ECU for 915.90
customer's application on the flow bench.
“Swing Set” Linkage kit; for attachment to the center plate. 404.95
Includes billet ‘U’ stand with ball bearing shaft supports in each
upright leg, throttle shaft, shaft stop, throttle rotational stop,
throttle arms at each end with (2) hex rod assemblies that connect
to the arms on the manifold end shafts. (This linkage allows equal
opening of counter rotation throttle shafts and requires approximately
3.5” at the rear of the engine past the number 8 cylinder intake bolt.)
*** NOTE ****
Horsepower rated at 0.5 Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC).
Systems may vary per application, please call regarding your specific needs.
PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE
http://s197forum.com/forum/showthrea...hrottle+bodies
http://s197forum.com/forum/showthrea...light=dry+sump
Last edited by EagleStroker; 5/3/10 at 12:33 PM.
5/4/10, 02:52 AM
#98
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Just a few things for you to chew on. Everyone who is here is not created equally remember that.
5/4/10, 07:55 AM
#100
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In any case, im not loosing sleep, I just finished a night shift and am dead tired. Have a good one, you made your point. I need a rest. Working nights makes me cranky. Drop me a line, ill even pm you my cell number if you want to continue this convo.
Good old google.
Scary part is that is the tip of the iceberg, this is without trying much. There are plenty of tools out there. Beeing a computer geek I should know. Using them however is another thing.