Ford 4.6L 3V V8
1/19/06, 11:43 AM
#1
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Hey guys, based on this particular video which most have seen thus far it appears to me the 4.6L 3V has been undercut by a bunch of bad mechanics and or tunners..
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?se...2&page_number=8
Now it is quite an accomplishment for Vortech to beat and torcher a 4.6L 3V engine on the dyno for 150 dyno pulls.. Quite another to come out on the other side with 575bhp... This is also @ 16psi of boost on the stock engine..
Is this simply a case of Vortech having a much more redifined product than anyone else? Or is this a case where the tuners know what they are doing? This car has been beaten with a passion from the time it was purchased.. Then it scores 8th place in a 1 mile speed test..
This in itself speaks volumes of not only Vortechs product, but also the toughness of the 2005 4.6L 3V engine, rods and all... Not to mention 16psi of boost trying its hardest to blow the heads off the car..
Even though this video is old, I really think it should make you all reconsider the character of your 4.6L 3v motors.. If tuned correctly with the right products, it appears it is indeed a beast!! A well put together and thought out design..
I have alot more faith in the 4.6L 3V than a mere 400RWHP.. I am convinced the end product is a bi-product of the efficiency of the Supercharger used, along with the quality of the tune...
I think all you 2005 Mustang GT owners really do have something to be proud of.. Stop running from 450RWHP like cowards.. Buy a Vortech, and "Lets Get it On Bubba!"!! "Move it"!!
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?se...2&page_number=8
Now it is quite an accomplishment for Vortech to beat and torcher a 4.6L 3V engine on the dyno for 150 dyno pulls.. Quite another to come out on the other side with 575bhp... This is also @ 16psi of boost on the stock engine..
Is this simply a case of Vortech having a much more redifined product than anyone else? Or is this a case where the tuners know what they are doing? This car has been beaten with a passion from the time it was purchased.. Then it scores 8th place in a 1 mile speed test..
This in itself speaks volumes of not only Vortechs product, but also the toughness of the 2005 4.6L 3V engine, rods and all... Not to mention 16psi of boost trying its hardest to blow the heads off the car..
Even though this video is old, I really think it should make you all reconsider the character of your 4.6L 3v motors.. If tuned correctly with the right products, it appears it is indeed a beast!! A well put together and thought out design..
I have alot more faith in the 4.6L 3V than a mere 400RWHP.. I am convinced the end product is a bi-product of the efficiency of the Supercharger used, along with the quality of the tune...
I think all you 2005 Mustang GT owners really do have something to be proud of.. Stop running from 450RWHP like cowards.. Buy a Vortech, and "Lets Get it On Bubba!"!! "Move it"!!
1/19/06, 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by subzero05@January 19, 2006, 10:57 AM
I love my vortech!..6K miles since installed and trouble free.They have always made great mustang kits and products in general and the 05 kit is certainly no exception!
I love my vortech!..6K miles since installed and trouble free.They have always made great mustang kits and products in general and the 05 kit is certainly no exception!
Yeah, I am pretty much fed up with all the talk about the 4.6L 3V engines cant handle more than 400RWHP... Thats obsurd.. You guys all need to face the fact that the people who have had problems with the rods, have had inferior products, along with inferior tunes... The 2005 Mustang GT rocks bigtime...
While I am a 2005 Mustang V6 owner, I am still a staunch supporter of the Mustang GT, and its 4.6L 3V.. I am alittle furious that most of you guys think that 400RWHP is the safe limit for the cars.. I would say its more closer to 500RWHP as a dailey driver when powered by a Vortech Supercharger... This is because most of you wont be scooting around town with the boost on all the time with the Vortech.. But when you need boost, the 4.6L 3V will provide it, if tunned correctly with a Vortech...
I am going to start calling GT owners cowards soon.. LOL!! You guys are babies... Just buy a Vortech and be done with it!
Seriously, I think the 4.6L 3V has been given a bad reputation by overly ambitious people who didnt know quite what they are doing.. Its really a ridiculous situation that this has come to pass.. Hopefully we can all start to change this attitude towards the 2005 4.6L 3V V8..
1/19/06, 12:07 PM
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How bout pure luck that they own a long block that has taken the abuse so far. And, there is a chance that they've already gone through a few blocks and wasnt able to find gold on their first try,
This is not a matter of what Supercharger is safest, the engine is weak. A tune is not going to save your connecting rods from snapping.
Threads like this will get more people pumped up to make more power, with Vortech, and their motors will blow up. Its that simple. I keep reading through the forums and I see the same thing, over and over again, the 3v engine blowing up with power adders with stock rotating assemblies.
Stop the advertising now! The Vortech is not a great Supercharger, it will not be able to provide the majority of people with anything reliable over 525bhp/450rwhp.
MSP, you would think that all the discussion about the limiting factors of this 4.6 would have sunk in by now. Its a shame really.
-Dan
This is not a matter of what Supercharger is safest, the engine is weak. A tune is not going to save your connecting rods from snapping.
Threads like this will get more people pumped up to make more power, with Vortech, and their motors will blow up. Its that simple. I keep reading through the forums and I see the same thing, over and over again, the 3v engine blowing up with power adders with stock rotating assemblies.
Stop the advertising now! The Vortech is not a great Supercharger, it will not be able to provide the majority of people with anything reliable over 525bhp/450rwhp.
MSP, you would think that all the discussion about the limiting factors of this 4.6 would have sunk in by now. Its a shame really.
-Dan
1/19/06, 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Cleveland@January 19, 2006, 11:10 AM
How bout pure luck that they own a long block that has taken the abuse so far. And, there is a chance that they've already gone through a few blocks and wasnt able to find gold on their first try,
This is not a matter of what Supercharger is safest, the engine is weak. A tune is not going to save your connecting rods from snapping.
Threads like this will get more people pumped up to make more power, with Vortech, and their motors will blow up. Its that simple. I keep reading through the forums and I see the same thing, over and over again, the 3v engine blowing up with power adders with stock rotating assemblies.
Stop the advertising now! The Vortech is not a great Supercharger, it will not be able to provide the majority of people with anything reliable over 525bhp/450rwhp.
MSP, you would think that all the discussion about the limiting factors of this 4.6 would have sunk in by now. Its a shame really.
-Dan
How bout pure luck that they own a long block that has taken the abuse so far. And, there is a chance that they've already gone through a few blocks and wasnt able to find gold on their first try,
This is not a matter of what Supercharger is safest, the engine is weak. A tune is not going to save your connecting rods from snapping.
Threads like this will get more people pumped up to make more power, with Vortech, and their motors will blow up. Its that simple. I keep reading through the forums and I see the same thing, over and over again, the 3v engine blowing up with power adders with stock rotating assemblies.
Stop the advertising now! The Vortech is not a great Supercharger, it will not be able to provide the majority of people with anything reliable over 525bhp/450rwhp.
MSP, you would think that all the discussion about the limiting factors of this 4.6 would have sunk in by now. Its a shame really.
-Dan
I just want to see some pride Dan... Show me just alittle pride man..
I feel like I'm out here on my own with the Mustang.. Where are the true believers!
It is quite interesting that you choose to call this a lucky block.. I need to seriously think about that statement... Regardless of 150+ dyno pulls, and an utter disregard for the rods saftey.. You have boiled it down to luck.. I say thats impossible.. It cant be luck at 16psi of boost Dan... You cant get lucky with 16psi of boost... If so explain..
1/19/06, 12:24 PM
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Instead of writing your own ficticious stories go read the handful of threads that already offer a ton of information on the lower half of the engine.
I have my pride but I dont feel like dropping my pants for you.
I really dont want to waste much more of my time with you cause I've already done it before.
-Dan
I have my pride but I dont feel like dropping my pants for you.
I really dont want to waste much more of my time with you cause I've already done it before.
-Dan
1/19/06, 12:38 PM
#9
So Dan does this mean that any supercharger is basically asking for trouble with the GT?
I have wondered what it would be like to add one, but I'm certainly not going to do it with a good chance that it will fry my engine.
I have wondered what it would be like to add one, but I'm certainly not going to do it with a good chance that it will fry my engine.
1/19/06, 12:38 PM
#10
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What it boils down to is that there have been more then enough people who have had issues at far lower rwhp than what Vortech has gotten.
It can't be luck Vortech got those results, however under what circumstances they were achieved is of importance.
It can't be luck Vortech got those results, however under what circumstances they were achieved is of importance.
1/19/06, 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Cleveland@January 19, 2006, 11:27 AM
Instead of writing your own ficticious stories go read the handful of threads that already offer a ton of information on the lower half of the engine.
I have my pride but I dont feel like dropping my pants for you.
I really dont want to waste much more of my time with you cause I've already done it before.
-Dan
Instead of writing your own ficticious stories go read the handful of threads that already offer a ton of information on the lower half of the engine.
I have my pride but I dont feel like dropping my pants for you.
I really dont want to waste much more of my time with you cause I've already done it before.
-Dan
I am also not telling any fictitious stories.. The proof is in the pudding.. What is needed here is more focus on the aspect of why the engine's which have failed, failed... Its easy for someone who has broken the rods in a 4.6L 3V to attribute the failure to the rods.. This is the easy way out.. Much easier than admitting a lapse in tunning judgement.. Much easier than admitting that they missed something..
If Vortech changed the rods and did not disclose it, then you may have a point.. But if Vortech tells me its a stock long block, I am inclined to believe them based on their reputation.. Which is much greater than yours.. I will take Vortech at their word, but thats what they have said.. They said stock long block.. Not a slightly modified rotating assembly..
Your story is more fictitious than mine, because you are trying to poisen the public that somehow Vortech has done something under-handed, or has simply just gotten lucky.. I am discussing the facts of the case, and you are making presumptions based on a few individuals who refuse to take blame for their mistake.. Rather, relegate the blame to the rods..
You know whats truley a shame is that you have no faith in the 2005 4.6L 3V V8 with 150+ dyno pulls, and 16psi of boost on the stock long block, presented by a company who has more championship vehicles running the quarter mile, than you can count with 2 hands and 2 feet... Thats whats really a shame here Dan... Your the poisen around here, not me.. Trying your best to convince everyone that the 4.6L 3V motor is weak.. Its really a sad site to see... :notnice:
1/19/06, 12:48 PM
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MSP CUT OUT THE MELODRAMA. SERIOUSLY MAN.
Stuff like this makes me wish I could punch my brain.
Realizing your car comes stock with hypereutonic pistons and weak rods is not betraying or losing respect for your car....its like .....called...not being a mongoloid.
Stuff like this makes me wish I could punch my brain.
Realizing your car comes stock with hypereutonic pistons and weak rods is not betraying or losing respect for your car....its like .....called...not being a mongoloid.
1/19/06, 01:16 PM
#13
LOL... this thread got personal somewhere. Might as well throw in my 2 cents, too.
First, I would agree with George. I seriously doubt this was done with pump gas. Second, the article said, "What's more, between runs, large 20-lb. bags of ice are placed on the intercooler's water tank to make the intake charge as dense as possible." We can't do that to our daily drivers... it's not practical. Finally, 575bhp is about 490-500rwhp, right? Why does it take a Vortech 16psi to hit that number? :scratch: If I wanted 490-500rwhp, I could do it with 12psi on a twin screw, and without an aggressive tune. (This thread shows what a Kenne Bell at 12psi and 495rwhp can do: http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index....owtopic=42660).
FWIW, I have seen a Vortech-blown '05 here at my local tracks. According to the dyno sheets I saw, he is putting down 482rwhp at 12.5psi. But, his car is not as quick as the twin-screw blown cars at 8psi. Sure... driver ability comes into play, but his best time in the 1/8-mi has been 8.0sec. I have run my N/A car at 8.4sec on the same track. Not much to brag about if I were him.
My Kenne Bell goes in this weekend. I suspect with an auto trans, and 8psi of boost, I'll have somewhere in the range of 425-440rwhp. Let's see if my lesser power/boost can outperform the Vortech at the track. Because in the end, it's really about timeslips; not dyno charts... isn't it? It is to me anyway.
First, I would agree with George. I seriously doubt this was done with pump gas. Second, the article said, "What's more, between runs, large 20-lb. bags of ice are placed on the intercooler's water tank to make the intake charge as dense as possible." We can't do that to our daily drivers... it's not practical. Finally, 575bhp is about 490-500rwhp, right? Why does it take a Vortech 16psi to hit that number? :scratch: If I wanted 490-500rwhp, I could do it with 12psi on a twin screw, and without an aggressive tune. (This thread shows what a Kenne Bell at 12psi and 495rwhp can do: http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index....owtopic=42660).
FWIW, I have seen a Vortech-blown '05 here at my local tracks. According to the dyno sheets I saw, he is putting down 482rwhp at 12.5psi. But, his car is not as quick as the twin-screw blown cars at 8psi. Sure... driver ability comes into play, but his best time in the 1/8-mi has been 8.0sec. I have run my N/A car at 8.4sec on the same track. Not much to brag about if I were him.
My Kenne Bell goes in this weekend. I suspect with an auto trans, and 8psi of boost, I'll have somewhere in the range of 425-440rwhp. Let's see if my lesser power/boost can outperform the Vortech at the track. Because in the end, it's really about timeslips; not dyno charts... isn't it? It is to me anyway.
1/19/06, 01:34 PM
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One time I wrote a song about twin-screws. It went: "twin screws are better than all the rest/if you want low down torque and power all the time/ twin screws twin screws twin screws/ they are undeniably superior to any other type of supercharger/TWIN SCREWS ::guitars fade out:: "
I'm still working on the iambic pentameter, flow, and rhyme, but I'm pretty happy with what I've got so far.
I'm still working on the iambic pentameter, flow, and rhyme, but I'm pretty happy with what I've got so far.
So I'll just eat some popcorn while I watch this soap opera continue. 
1/19/06, 02:22 PM
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Wow! I didn't realize I was on a cheerleading site? Look MSP, stating what the REAL limit's are isn't bashing. We're not here to wave the Ford flag and actually convince ourselves that all of us can go out there an crank up our 4.6 3v with 16 lbs of boost and 550+ h.p. It's NOT going to happen MSP. Unless of course your idea of pleasure is running around town looking for 110+ Octane race gas and a chemistry set to test that fuel and make adjustments to your tune on the fly every time you fill up. 
An R&D car is not indicative to what people will actually see in the real world vs a controlled environment. Boost isn't the culprit per se, but detonation is, and the more boost you add the narrower the margin for error becomes.
So the question really is: Can anyone expect to run 16 lbs of boost on pump gas? Absolutely not. We've all seen them blow MSP, it's an undeniable FACT. Digging up a marketing article from roughly a year ago is absolutely meaningless and serves NO purpose. Especially given the real world examples that we've seen in the past year.
All of us here, realize these things MSP.
So tell you what, If you are so passionate about this, why not sell your v6, pick up a used GT, throw a Vortech on there, pump up the boost to 16 lbs on pump gas (Ok we'll let you add some of that Magic NOS Octane Booster) and then tell us based on FACT in the REAL world what the stock internals will do?
The real poison my friend is people who talk out of the left side of their butt-cheek based on marketing materials from days gone by.
Maybe you need create your own "Mustang Evangelist" (Read Fanboy) site where you can wax poetic to your hearts content to your adoring fans about all the "theoretical" things people can do with their cars
An R&D car is not indicative to what people will actually see in the real world vs a controlled environment. Boost isn't the culprit per se, but detonation is, and the more boost you add the narrower the margin for error becomes.
So the question really is: Can anyone expect to run 16 lbs of boost on pump gas? Absolutely not. We've all seen them blow MSP, it's an undeniable FACT. Digging up a marketing article from roughly a year ago is absolutely meaningless and serves NO purpose. Especially given the real world examples that we've seen in the past year.
All of us here, realize these things MSP.
So tell you what, If you are so passionate about this, why not sell your v6, pick up a used GT, throw a Vortech on there, pump up the boost to 16 lbs on pump gas (Ok we'll let you add some of that Magic NOS Octane Booster) and then tell us based on FACT in the REAL world what the stock internals will do?
The real poison my friend is people who talk out of the left side of their butt-cheek based on marketing materials from days gone by.
Maybe you need create your own "Mustang Evangelist" (Read Fanboy) site where you can wax poetic to your hearts content to your adoring fans about all the "theoretical" things people can do with their cars
1/19/06, 02:33 PM
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I think MSP is saying he believes magazines and manufacturers claims instead of professional engine builders and real world experiences. Hey, but everyone needs a fantasy right? LOL.
1/19/06, 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by SixtySix@January 19, 2006, 1:25 PM
Wow! I didn't realize I was on a cheerleading site? Look MSP, stating what the REAL limit's are isn't bashing. We're not here to wave the Ford flag and actually convince ourselves that all of us can go out there an crank up our 4.6 3v with 16 lbs of boost and 550+ h.p. It's NOT going to happen MSP. Unless of course your idea of pleasure is running around town looking for 110+ Octane race gas and a chemistry set to test that fuel and make adjustments to your tune on the fly every time you fill up.
An R&D car is not indicative to what people will actually see in the real world vs a controlled environment. Boost isn't the culprit per se, but detonation is, and the more boost you add the narrower the margin for error becomes.
So the question really is: Can anyone expect to run 16 lbs of boost on pump gas? Absolutely not. We've all seen them blow MSP, it's an undeniable FACT. Digging up a marketing article from roughly a year ago is absolutely meaningless and serves NO purpose. Especially given the real world examples that we've seen in the past year.
All of us here, realize these things MSP.
So tell you what, If you are so passionate about this, why not sell your v6, pick up a used GT, throw a Vortech on there, pump up the boost to 16 lbs on pump gas (Ok we'll let you add some of that Magic NOS Octane Booster) and then tell us based on FACT in the REAL world what the stock internals will do?
The real poison my friend is people who talk out of the left side of their butt-cheek based on marketing materials from days gone by.
Maybe you need create your own "Mustang Evangelist" (Read Fanboy) site where you can wax poetic to your hearts content to your adoring fans about all the "theoretical" things people can do with their cars
Wow! I didn't realize I was on a cheerleading site? Look MSP, stating what the REAL limit's are isn't bashing. We're not here to wave the Ford flag and actually convince ourselves that all of us can go out there an crank up our 4.6 3v with 16 lbs of boost and 550+ h.p. It's NOT going to happen MSP. Unless of course your idea of pleasure is running around town looking for 110+ Octane race gas and a chemistry set to test that fuel and make adjustments to your tune on the fly every time you fill up.
An R&D car is not indicative to what people will actually see in the real world vs a controlled environment. Boost isn't the culprit per se, but detonation is, and the more boost you add the narrower the margin for error becomes.
So the question really is: Can anyone expect to run 16 lbs of boost on pump gas? Absolutely not. We've all seen them blow MSP, it's an undeniable FACT. Digging up a marketing article from roughly a year ago is absolutely meaningless and serves NO purpose. Especially given the real world examples that we've seen in the past year.
All of us here, realize these things MSP.
So tell you what, If you are so passionate about this, why not sell your v6, pick up a used GT, throw a Vortech on there, pump up the boost to 16 lbs on pump gas (Ok we'll let you add some of that Magic NOS Octane Booster) and then tell us based on FACT in the REAL world what the stock internals will do?
The real poison my friend is people who talk out of the left side of their butt-cheek based on marketing materials from days gone by.
Maybe you need create your own "Mustang Evangelist" (Read Fanboy) site where you can wax poetic to your hearts content to your adoring fans about all the "theoretical" things people can do with their cars
LOL!! Trying to instill alittle pride in the 4.6L 3V has gotten all my teeth pulled!! LOL!!
Now how am I suppose to eat this Green Apple!
Didnt mean to have any faith in a Ford Product on a Mustang site.. What in the world was I thinking.. Sorry guys!