Drive shaft loops
2/3/06, 07:37 PM
#61
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2/3/06, 08:22 PM
#62
9 is not my lucky number.
Thread Starter
I think you guys might be too quick to judge here. At least give the guy a chance to explain himself before you jump all over him. If he says the Metco loops aren't IHRA legal then we should know why.
From page 121-122 in the 2006 IHRA rule book. I can't find anything else on driveshaft loops.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>DRIVE LINES: On any car in which the driver sits over, or on back of the rear end section, a suitable protective shield of .120" minimum-thickness steel plate must be installed for those units with universal joints, securely mounted to the rear end center section and the bellhousing adaptor or frame structure. Couplers are highly recommended in place of U-joints wherever possible. For these units with straight couplers, the minimum requirements is .063" aluminum which must contain and inspection cover, for removal and inspection of the coupler, securely mounted to the rear end center section and the bellhousing adaptor or as noted in the class requirements. In place of crossmember in the vicinity of the front universal joint, all competition cars using open drive shafts must have a retainer loop, 360 degrees, and of 1/4" minimum thickness steel, 2" wide, securely mounted and located within 6" of the front universal joint to support the drive shaft in the event of U-joint failure. Open drive lines passing any part of the driver's body must be completely enclosed in 1/8" minimum thickness steel plate securely mounted to the frame or frame structure. Aluminum driveshafts are legalin all stock categories except pure stock. Driveshaft loop required on all entries running 1.99 1/4 or 8.59 1/8 or quicker that utilized racing slicks. Driveshaft loop mandatory on street tires at 11.49 1/4 and 7.35 1/8 or quicker[/b][/quote]
So what makes the Metco loops not IHRA legal? BTW for the life of me I can't find where it says 2-piece driveshafts need 2 loops.
From page 121-122 in the 2006 IHRA rule book. I can't find anything else on driveshaft loops.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>DRIVE LINES: On any car in which the driver sits over, or on back of the rear end section, a suitable protective shield of .120" minimum-thickness steel plate must be installed for those units with universal joints, securely mounted to the rear end center section and the bellhousing adaptor or frame structure. Couplers are highly recommended in place of U-joints wherever possible. For these units with straight couplers, the minimum requirements is .063" aluminum which must contain and inspection cover, for removal and inspection of the coupler, securely mounted to the rear end center section and the bellhousing adaptor or as noted in the class requirements. In place of crossmember in the vicinity of the front universal joint, all competition cars using open drive shafts must have a retainer loop, 360 degrees, and of 1/4" minimum thickness steel, 2" wide, securely mounted and located within 6" of the front universal joint to support the drive shaft in the event of U-joint failure. Open drive lines passing any part of the driver's body must be completely enclosed in 1/8" minimum thickness steel plate securely mounted to the frame or frame structure. Aluminum driveshafts are legalin all stock categories except pure stock. Driveshaft loop required on all entries running 1.99 1/4 or 8.59 1/8 or quicker that utilized racing slicks. Driveshaft loop mandatory on street tires at 11.49 1/4 and 7.35 1/8 or quicker[/b][/quote]
So what makes the Metco loops not IHRA legal? BTW for the life of me I can't find where it says 2-piece driveshafts need 2 loops.
2/3/06, 08:48 PM
#63
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BMR rules!!! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
2/3/06, 09:11 PM
#64
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Besides the above forementioned, I've never had anyone at any event even look at my driveshaft loop, let alone climb under there and measure for anything. My local track is a NHRA track and is VERY strict. They've never even looked to see if I even had one. This goes for NMRA events as well. Splitting hairs and throwing mud isn't needed.
And yes, BMR rules!
And yes, BMR rules!
2/4/06, 10:52 AM
#65
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This is starting to smell like certain tactics that were used on a certain CAI kit a long time ago... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] and that didn't smell very good...That person learned how to be a part of the forums (very well I might add) so maybe there is hope... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]
2/4/06, 11:32 AM
#66
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ February 3, 2006, 7:25 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I think you guys might be too quick to judge here. [/b][/quote]
I don't... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nonono.gif[/img]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(169stang @ February 3, 2006, 8:14 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>I've never had anyone at any event even look at my driveshaft loop, let alone climb under there and measure for anything. My local track is a NHRA track and is VERY strict. They've never even looked to see if I even had one.[/b][/quote]
Concur 100%... mine is under there, but no one has even asked if I have one, much less looked or measured it.
I think you guys might be too quick to judge here. [/b][/quote]
I don't... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nonono.gif[/img]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(169stang @ February 3, 2006, 8:14 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>I've never had anyone at any event even look at my driveshaft loop, let alone climb under there and measure for anything. My local track is a NHRA track and is VERY strict. They've never even looked to see if I even had one.[/b][/quote]
Concur 100%... mine is under there, but no one has even asked if I have one, much less looked or measured it.
2/4/06, 11:41 AM
#67
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I quickly glance thru this thread, but I plan on adding a 1 peice aluminum driveshaft to my car and knocking on 12s. Do I need a 2 peice loop kit? I would think that only one up front is fine.
2/4/06, 11:47 AM
#68
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(max2000jp @ February 4, 2006, 10:44 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I quickly glance thru this thread, but I plan on adding a 1 peice aluminum driveshaft to my car and knocking on 12s. Do I need a 2 peice loop kit? I would think that only one up front is fine.
[/b][/quote]
One piece driveshart=One loop. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
I quickly glance thru this thread, but I plan on adding a 1 peice aluminum driveshaft to my car and knocking on 12s. Do I need a 2 peice loop kit? I would think that only one up front is fine.
[/b][/quote]
One piece driveshart=One loop. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]
2/4/06, 12:24 PM
#69
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ February 3, 2006, 7:25 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
BTW for the life of me I can't find where it says 2-piece driveshafts need 2 loops.
[/b][/quote]
I think it's inferred..."In place of crossmember in the vicinity of the front universal joint, ...must have a retainer loop...located within 6" of the front universal joint..."
BTW for the life of me I can't find where it says 2-piece driveshafts need 2 loops.
[/b][/quote]
I think it's inferred..."In place of crossmember in the vicinity of the front universal joint, ...must have a retainer loop...located within 6" of the front universal joint..."
2/6/06, 05:19 PM
#70
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(don_w @ February 3, 2006, 3:23 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The Metco I installed on my car was beefy enough for me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img]
Just out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to take shots at other people/products? Inferiority complex?
And yes, I still remember the ugly thread [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img] : http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=626492
Don't expect to find a GMS product on my car anytime soon. Even if they were the best thing since chunky peanut butter, I wouldn't buy them just on general principle now.
[/b][/quote]
You lost me here - I am not bashing anyone products. If the question here is, Why is GMS a better part, then the answer is look at both parts and judge for yourself. If the question is why is GMS legal and other unit is not...Our rear loop, which is the most crucial fastens to the body in 6 locations not just four. While NHRA only requires 4 bolts, they spec out a minimum of 3/8 bolts. Since the factory hardware is not 3/8 it requires the extra 2 mounting locations in order to be legal.
Many of you have stated that your tracks are strict but still never check. That does not make it right. The Granatelli design is legal because it utilizes 6 mounting locations thereby spread the load across the entire floor pan. It also positions the loops as require by tech within 3 inches of both mating joints. The reason for a 2 part drive shaft loop is because the factory drive shaft is in 2 sections. This may seem trivial to a few of you but several have asked why 2 sections.
Next, the Granatelli parts act not only as safety loops but also aid in handling by connecting the seat boxes front and rear. Additionally, neither our front piece nor rear piece requires removal of the shaft sections.
STOP looking for the negative in everything. My issue with Subzero had nothing to do with GMS or B&M per say. It had to do with ME, the owner of GMS and Subzero an employee of Banks and now B&M. Both Subzero and I curbed our Kiddy BS but both wanted to vent our frustration. While other love to hide behind PM’s I have always been an out in the open kind of person. I call it like I see it and I don’t care to hide from anyone.
I have no axe to grind with anyone or any competitor. However, even though I am Granatelli Motor Sports that should not curtail me from making comparisons. It seems to me that you guys can now chose from several different manufactures, Metco, BMR and GMS are just 3 of many. Our parts our direct fit and if anyone is looking for a down and dirty inexpensive part you can always call Summit Racing or Jegs Hi Perf and purchase their generic universal bolt in parts. Naturally you save money when you purchasing but then you need to remove your seats and carpet to install them.
The Metco I installed on my car was beefy enough for me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img]
Just out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to take shots at other people/products? Inferiority complex?
And yes, I still remember the ugly thread [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img] : http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=626492
Don't expect to find a GMS product on my car anytime soon. Even if they were the best thing since chunky peanut butter, I wouldn't buy them just on general principle now.
[/b][/quote]
You lost me here - I am not bashing anyone products. If the question here is, Why is GMS a better part, then the answer is look at both parts and judge for yourself. If the question is why is GMS legal and other unit is not...Our rear loop, which is the most crucial fastens to the body in 6 locations not just four. While NHRA only requires 4 bolts, they spec out a minimum of 3/8 bolts. Since the factory hardware is not 3/8 it requires the extra 2 mounting locations in order to be legal.
Many of you have stated that your tracks are strict but still never check. That does not make it right. The Granatelli design is legal because it utilizes 6 mounting locations thereby spread the load across the entire floor pan. It also positions the loops as require by tech within 3 inches of both mating joints. The reason for a 2 part drive shaft loop is because the factory drive shaft is in 2 sections. This may seem trivial to a few of you but several have asked why 2 sections.
Next, the Granatelli parts act not only as safety loops but also aid in handling by connecting the seat boxes front and rear. Additionally, neither our front piece nor rear piece requires removal of the shaft sections.
STOP looking for the negative in everything. My issue with Subzero had nothing to do with GMS or B&M per say. It had to do with ME, the owner of GMS and Subzero an employee of Banks and now B&M. Both Subzero and I curbed our Kiddy BS but both wanted to vent our frustration. While other love to hide behind PM’s I have always been an out in the open kind of person. I call it like I see it and I don’t care to hide from anyone.
I have no axe to grind with anyone or any competitor. However, even though I am Granatelli Motor Sports that should not curtail me from making comparisons. It seems to me that you guys can now chose from several different manufactures, Metco, BMR and GMS are just 3 of many. Our parts our direct fit and if anyone is looking for a down and dirty inexpensive part you can always call Summit Racing or Jegs Hi Perf and purchase their generic universal bolt in parts. Naturally you save money when you purchasing but then you need to remove your seats and carpet to install them.
2/6/06, 06:39 PM
#71
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Granatelli @ February 6, 2006, 4:22 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
You lost me here - I am not bashing anyone products. (yada, yada, yada...) [/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bs.gif[/img]
You lost me here - I am not bashing anyone products. (yada, yada, yada...) [/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bs.gif[/img]
2/6/06, 09:06 PM
#72
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(don_w @ February 3, 2006, 3:23 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The Metco I installed on my car was beefy enough for me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img] : http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=626492
expect to find a GMS product on my car soon. they were the best thing since chunky peanut butter, [/b][/quote]
You lost me here - I am not bashing anyone products.
STOP looking for the negative in everything.
I have no axe to grind with anyone or any competitor. However, even though I am Granatelli Motor Sports that should not curtail me from making comparisons. It seems to me that you guys can now chose from several different manufactures, Metco, BMR and GMS are just 3 of many. Our parts our direct fit and if anyone is looking for a down and dirty inexpensive part you can always call Summit Racing or Jegs Hi Perf and purchase their generic universal bolt in parts. Naturally you save money when you purchasing but then you need to remove your seats and carpet to install them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(don_w @ February 6, 2006, 5:42 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bs.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Don - I am not sure why you have a hard on for me but I hope you can work it out. GMS has done nothing to you and whether you have 2 post or 2000 it should not make you feel like you can bash others for stating the facts.
The Metco I installed on my car was beefy enough for me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nono.gif[/img] : http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=626492
expect to find a GMS product on my car soon. they were the best thing since chunky peanut butter, [/b][/quote]
You lost me here - I am not bashing anyone products.
STOP looking for the negative in everything.
I have no axe to grind with anyone or any competitor. However, even though I am Granatelli Motor Sports that should not curtail me from making comparisons. It seems to me that you guys can now chose from several different manufactures, Metco, BMR and GMS are just 3 of many. Our parts our direct fit and if anyone is looking for a down and dirty inexpensive part you can always call Summit Racing or Jegs Hi Perf and purchase their generic universal bolt in parts. Naturally you save money when you purchasing but then you need to remove your seats and carpet to install them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(don_w @ February 6, 2006, 5:42 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bs.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Don - I am not sure why you have a hard on for me but I hope you can work it out. GMS has done nothing to you and whether you have 2 post or 2000 it should not make you feel like you can bash others for stating the facts.
2/6/06, 10:07 PM
#73
Typical... you even edited my "quote" to make it say something I didn't say. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img] I certainly hope you know more about making car parts than you do about public relations and marketing. Good luck to you...
2/6/06, 10:10 PM
#74
I hate to carry this off-topic any more than it's gotten. JR, whether you're stating facts or not the WAY you present yourself is like youre pushing your products on people by saying "Mine are better because I said so"... It doesn't entirely come across as professional OR factual. I personally have no idea, nor do I care, if your parts are better or worse than Mfr A, B and C. But the other companies don't come in here and tell us we shouldn't buy your stuff. You're advertising in the most general sense and it's not appropriate for the discussion at hand. You can add your opinions, comments, facts as you like, but you don't have to turn it into a commercial every time.
$0.02
Can we get back to loops now?
$0.02
Can we get back to loops now?
2/7/06, 12:13 AM
#76
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You guys are impossible. Your only concern should be whether or not you are getting the best products for your car, but God forbid anyone should dispute that the part you bought or are considering isn't the best. Because if that happens you get into attack mode. I have gotten a lot of information off of this site but I'm really tired of it. I've seen Granatelli's products compared to the ones your touting Don. Total Quality. Just look and compare. Granatelli's is just trying to get the word out about his stuff and that is AOK. In fact I wish all the manufacturers would contribute this way. As to the thread on the throttle body that was referred to - Granatelli was right about that too. I have that TB - It's a killer. You people accusing him of faking dyno results without proof are just being contrarian because this forum allows all opinion no matter how unsupported. Also I know that Sean Roberts at Extreme Automotive repeated those results months ago. That is the scientific method gentleman. Second, as an observer, before I listen to any bloggers opinion, I want to know his background. Does he or she have any credentials training or experience in mechanical engineering for instance. Has the person actually seen or tested the parts that he is so eager to offer an opinion on. Does the person work on a race team or build cars himself. If so, how many and how can I verify his or her work. The problem with the internet in general is that anybody can offer an opinion but not everyone has a worthwhile opinion. Where Granatelli is concerned I can actually see that he has produced something and has a background. What have you critics produced - except a lot of needless friction. JR keep posting, the silent majority is with you. I hope reps from Steeda, B&M (Attn SubZero) and all manufacturers post here to tell us about their new products and why they're better than the next. Through that I hope to get the best parts for my car so that I can build the best car possible. THAT'S HOW I ROLL!
2006 GT
Vortech Supercharger w Intercooler
Granatelli TB
JBA Longtubes & H pipes
Magnaflows
424 RWHP 383 RWT
Steeda springs and swaybars all around
Steeda Rear Swaybar links
Steeda 3rd Link
Strut Tower Brace
Metco Aluminum Rear Trailing Arms
Granatelli Front Swaybar Brackets
Granatelli Drive shaft loop - subframe connectors
Bullits w/ BFG G Force KDW II's 295/35/18 rear, 255's front
CDC Ducktail Spoiler
NYC Carbon Fiber Dash Kit
2006 GT
Vortech Supercharger w Intercooler
Granatelli TB
JBA Longtubes & H pipes
Magnaflows
424 RWHP 383 RWT
Steeda springs and swaybars all around
Steeda Rear Swaybar links
Steeda 3rd Link
Strut Tower Brace
Metco Aluminum Rear Trailing Arms
Granatelli Front Swaybar Brackets
Granatelli Drive shaft loop - subframe connectors
Bullits w/ BFG G Force KDW II's 295/35/18 rear, 255's front
CDC Ducktail Spoiler
NYC Carbon Fiber Dash Kit
2/7/06, 01:35 AM
#77
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well stated lawman, tho i don't entirely agree. i think JR does seem to come across online with a lot more attituted than he intends. remember that there is no tone of voice on here, which at first i questioned, but after meeting him and seeing how well he knows his stuff and how professional he acts in person, i can vouch for his authenticity. the 50-60 magazine articles on the walls of this office alone should be reason to at least take his point of view somewhat seriously...tho he is very up front and straight forward salesman [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrinjester.gif[/img] ...after good results with that throttle body, he easily sold me a set of his drive shaft loops (...see me bringing the discussion back?...)
basically they look quite similar to the metco ones, but in fewer pieces i believe. all i know is it took about 20-30min to completely install them, and they are a HIGH quality product. clearence was tight, but pulling the exhaust down an inch by hand made it easy. i could hand and probly swing from them monkey-bars style if i had too...very solid. i will not bash products i have no experience with, but i WILL, and i emphasize that, WILL report good experiences with products that i have a good experience with. everything i have encountered that is made by granatelli is top notch. that is all i have to say
basically they look quite similar to the metco ones, but in fewer pieces i believe. all i know is it took about 20-30min to completely install them, and they are a HIGH quality product. clearence was tight, but pulling the exhaust down an inch by hand made it easy. i could hand and probly swing from them monkey-bars style if i had too...very solid. i will not bash products i have no experience with, but i WILL, and i emphasize that, WILL report good experiences with products that i have a good experience with. everything i have encountered that is made by granatelli is top notch. that is all i have to say
2/7/06, 07:53 AM
#78
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2/7/06, 08:08 AM
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2/8/06, 10:29 AM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(169stang @ February 7, 2006, 7:11 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
[attachmentid=44680] The front loop in this pic looks VERY familiar. Almost like a Metco loop. And the rear loop looks a lot like the BMR loop.
[/b][/quote]
Before I bought my Metco loops, that's what I wanted...A BMR rear and a Metco front. I settled for the Metco setup. While they were shipping, I discovered the Granatelli loops...
[attachmentid=44680] The front loop in this pic looks VERY familiar. Almost like a Metco loop. And the rear loop looks a lot like the BMR loop.
[/b][/quote]
Before I bought my Metco loops, that's what I wanted...A BMR rear and a Metco front. I settled for the Metco setup. While they were shipping, I discovered the Granatelli loops...