On one hand, I read about how the S197s are the best handling Mustangs ever, and then I read some reviews about how bad the handling is compared to some other cars. Is it really that bad, and if so, how is that that the S197s are kicking butt on the Grand Am circuit against Beamers and Porsches?? I know these cars are modded, but still...

Opinions?

 

What makes a bad handling car?

 

The mustang is fine on a race track as you can see with the grand am cars. put put those race cars on a actual road and then you will see the real weakness of the solid axle.

 

I love my Stang, but seriously don't even try to compare its handling to a Porsche*or*BMW.

 

I still don't understand what defines bad handling.
Can't a good driver learn to control any car?
Thus making a mustang handle just as well as a bmw?

And do we ever see handling issues from our mustangs on daily use?

 

Handles great for a daily driver. Would be better with independant suspension, but that would be harder to launch at the drag strip though. Solid keeps costs down too.

Can always swap out springs/struts/swaybars/shocks to improve handling if it really bothers you.

 

The mustangs are eating up the BMW's and Porshe's on the road race circuit. Of course, they are not mustangs with stock suspension.

 

Hmm my car with only tokico D spec's and Steeda springs, and BFG KDW's is right there with my friends 05 M3 and thats comming from him after driving my car.

 

I would say my suspension is ok. I don't like the fact that I feel every little bump on the road though, it seems a little stiff. Maybe the d-specs can take care of that. It corners well though. I have the eibach prokit and steeda pro-action shocks/struts.

 

I think they handle pretty well. Just ask the M3 driver I ****ed off in the twisties yesterday.

Seriously, let people have their opinions and form your own

While I might have been ****ing off the M3, I've driven one and they are just a nice, tight handling car that requires less effort to throw around corners at high speed.

Sure I can keep up with them, but I'm doing it with more effort in keeping it from going over the edge.

 

That's the "secret" to fixing the bad handling. Some Steeda springs and matching shocks/struts. Add a few rigid items like LCAs and Panhard and this car is amazing.

I tracked the stock car and yes, it pushes bigtime in the corners compared to other cars. Once I had the Steeda stuff added it actually makes for much higher corner entry speeds and overall lower track times.

For the street, even just a set of springs can greatly improve cornering. For $250 and 3 hours of your life, I believe any S197 owner with some simple tools should do the springs. (Also, alignment plays a big factor in this car...so make sure that is done after the springs).

 

mustangs are 'cheap muscle', out of the box they probably don't compare very well to other more expensive cars in terms of handling performance.

 

The real bottom line issue with the handling on our cars is from component flex. The Mustang was never designed as a "factory race car," like the M-cars, but as a sporty street car suited to the wide, straight boulevards common in the US. With that in mind, the car handles admirably. Another of the apparent design criteria would be a reasonably comfortable, quiet ride. To accomplish this, softer rubber bushings were used throughout the rear suspension (along with fairly "soft" control arm construction), and hydraulic bushings were used for both the front lower control arm and the motor mounts. The end result of all these lower-durometer components is a bit of percievable slop in the suspension, leading to a more "vague" feel to the steering and tracking.

A basic handling package (springs, struts, rear control arms x3 and panhard rod, front bushing inserts, bump-steer and extended ball joints to correct for the ride drop) will cost around $2500, and will REALLY wake up the car in terms of handling, and will still be thousands or tens of thousands cheaper than buying an equivalent performing BMW or Porsche. The downside is that the ride will be a LOT harder than the stock setup.

In theory, it would not be overly difficult to modify the Mustang with a combination of parts that would level the field with the M-cars, and still retain a reasonably comfortable ride, however, the cost involved would not be materially lower than going to a "full race," and since the buying demographic for parts like that are more inclined to GO to a more aggressive setup anyway, there's no market for "slightly better" parts.

In stock trim, the car is respectable in the handling department, and modified, it can be a real track terror. The BMW cars in stock trim will outhandle the Mustang, hands down, but are short on power, and getting more power out of them is quite expensive. In the end, the Mustang is a very respectable contender, particularly if you compare the cars in terms of total cost. A stock 325i will cost around $35,000, and offer good handling and around 230HP from a N/A inline 6. The Mustang GT in base trim is around $26,000, which leaves us $9000 available for mods to maintain the same dollar value. The aforementioned handling package, combined with some lightweight wheels, high-end tires, and a few other mods like an aluminum driveshaft, underdrive pullies, and a taller gear in the back will yield a car that is easily as quick in the corners, and will flat outrun the BMW on corner exit and the straights. Probably with enough cash left over for some "toys."

 

Considering the price of admission, an S197 GT handles very well. It can certainly be improved upon, but for the vast majority of drivers out there, it has higher limits than they do! Gotta say, my 03 Mach 1 handled better than my 07 GT, though, stock vs. stock.

You can mod anything to handle. My 1968 Pontiac GTO handled much better than anything I've ever owned, but that was after extensively modifying the entire suspension (all new front end, poly bushings, big sway bars front & rear, modern wheels, and tires, gas shocks, etc.).

 

I think that you can improve the suspension and keep the ride -- just don't go extreme. I also think that tires are a big issue. I'm still trying to look at a tire replacement. Unfortunately, the wares in 255/45/18 are a bit limited -- but, I'm still looking. I'm also looking for 4 piston front calipers that will fit with factory 18x8.5s. With those changes, I think that the handling factor will toast most imports -- for less $$$ (and with a lot MORE FUN TOO)

 

BTW Brian:
I had an unmodified 69 Firebird Convertible w/ 400 --
It didn't handle compared to a stock Fox body and the difference between an S-197. I don't think anything that you could have done to that one with the FR70-14s and wheelspin galore would have brought it close to a modern car. Before I decided to bite the bullet with a new Mustang, I looked at a lot of "classics" -- the performance, comfort and safety aren't even close -- as you know.

You must have had a special GOAT.

 

A Bad Handling Mustang is the Driver. While my S197 is basically (so far) a stock set up, it handles well. Not quite as well as my 03 Mach1, but better than my 99GT, which was no slouch either. All three remained basically stock suspension. Granted I have more plans for this one, but I am very pleased with the handling, and with some minor tweaking will be a great track car. It's already a fun track car.

 

I wouldn't say its that bad, but mine certainly is better now!

 

Here's a review of an 05 GT from the British POV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k36CIkNV_BM

It's from the TV show Topgear.

Overall, they didn't like it.

 

Handling is both subjective and relative. My Charger handles quite well for a car of its size and weight. My Mustang can turn a 10 to 15 second better lap time on the road course, but rides stiffer and has much more NVH than the Charger. Even one of the instructors at the track mentioned how well my Mustang performs. Of course, I can't keep up with the Corvettes. So pick your poison. For the money spent, the Mustang is a very good, cost-effective platform, and you can tailor it to your liking by picking and choosing the right parts. Decide what your goals are, ask lots of questions, and just do one mod at a time.