Daily Drivers with UDP's
12/6/06, 02:10 PM
#27
Bullitt Member
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Next question is on the belt - does the tensioner take up the slack on the stock belt when you change pulleys? Also, if you go S/C down the road will the new belt work with either the stock pulleys or the UDP's?
Just trying to plan a little for future mods.....
Thanks.
Just trying to plan a little for future mods.....
Thanks.
12/6/06, 02:16 PM
#28
Team Mustang Source
Join Date: July 20, 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes it does take up the slack. and when you go S/C down the road, you can no longer use the UD pullies, you will have to put your stock pullies back on.
12/6/06, 02:44 PM
#29
Bullitt Member
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, that is good info to have. getting excited about reading about the Whipple S/C and just wanted to start gathering info if I go that route.
12/6/06, 06:45 PM
#30
Team Mustang Source
Is that the exact image of the Steeda pulleys? Do they include an alternator pulley? Is the Steeda dampener the same size as the OE crank dampener?
There is a pulley ratio for the alternator: crank pulley diameter / alternator pulley diameter. The alternator can produce approx 80A+ at a certain rotor speed. When you go to a smaller crank pulley, you reduce this ratio and would have to increase your idle speed in order to match the original alternator speed to obtain the 80A+ charging output.
I did 100% stop and go driving with the 4.6 2V and did notice my voltmeter needle drop at the light and as I said before, I went through multiple batteries over 4 years due to undercharging and the Steeda UDPs just left me with a bad experience.
12/6/06, 08:30 PM
#31
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: August 10, 2005
Location: Sarasota
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12/7/06, 03:28 PM
#32
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 1,225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How hard are UDP's to install? What all is involved? Is it soemthing I can do easily or will it require me taking the front end off to do it..(j/K) but seriously what do I need to do to change them out?
Thanks
Jeff
Thanks
Jeff
12/7/06, 07:21 PM
#33
Legacy TMS Member
Besides basic hand tools, you only need a torque wrench and a set of pully pullers- I rented the pullers from Autozone. If you search, there are lots of install threads for pullies here on the site.
12/8/06, 04:25 PM
#35
Legacy TMS Member
Join Date: January 9, 2005
Location: New Carlisle, Ohio (20 miles north of Dayton)
Posts: 6,982
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
How did your pullies kill your battery? Provide proof please. If you pullies would not charge your stock battery they would not charge your Optima yellow. Right?? I think you had some other problem. I have run the same set up for 14 months and it was 8 degs. here this morning and she started right up.
Scott
12/15/06, 12:04 PM
#38
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 1,225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the info. I'm getting them for Christmas. As soon as the holidays are over several guys in our car club are going to help me put them on. One guy has a garage with all the tools I'll need. I look forward to those extra 10 or so horses. Next is Kooks and a catted x-pipe.
12/15/06, 12:59 PM
#39
Member
Join Date: August 22, 2006
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It all depends...
Just some thoughts..
Generaly the electrical system design is such that the alternator can, at idle, satisfy all likely-concurrent loads: lights, a/c, stereo (at a subset of max output), ECU, etc.
Underdrive pulleys are a two-edged sword: spin the belt and/or driven devices slower (alt, compressor, etc) and you WILL experience:
-reduced accessory losses (a few more HP, especially at higher rpm)
-reduced accessory output
If you have a tune on the car, you can use the programmer to set the idle higher to compensate for some of the pulley reduction. This is a good idea since it will not give back any of the power gains at but will keep the battery better conditioned.
If you're lucky, running underdrive pulleys will just shorten battery life (can be considerably shorter -- from 6-8 years to 1-3 years DEPENDING ON YOUR DRIVING SITUATION.
If you have a Shaker 1000 and like it LOUD and BASSY, drive in stop and go traffic for much of your commute in pre-dawn hours in Phoenix, don't be surprised if your batter life is even shorter than 1-year.
If your daily driving is typically a freeway commute with little or no dead-stopidling, your battery life may not be affected much at all, even with heavy accessory use: a/c, lights, stereo...
Most people think of a battery kinda like a jug of water, you drain it down and the alternator fills it up, and as long as it doesn't run out (you get ahead of the alternator for too long a period) you're ok.
But that analogy is not entirely a good one. Battteries are generally only elastic in the top 10% of their capacity -- the deeper you dip beyond that starts to shorten their life by more and more (disproportionately). Once you get to the point where you're discharging up to 40% or so (depends on the quality and design of the battery), life span is greatly reduced, especially if it sits in the reduced state overnight (as opposed to being recharged before shut-off. However, DEEP cycling of even a quality automotive battery beyond its design-point even with a 'full' recharge will greatly reduce its life (a deep-cycled impaired battery will never reach full capacity again). Marine batteries are designed for deeper cycling but give up some other capabilities in the trade (marine batts are not recommeded for cars).
A severe service battery (e.g. optima yellow/red-top) will prevent spills and take much more vibration, but will not last any longer than a conventional battery of similar capacity and cycle-design.
So the net is, IMO, asking others if pulleys worked ok for them is not usefull in predicting how pulleys will work for you. The specifics of the car (alternator capacity at idle), the climate, the battery design/capacity, the actual daily driving conditions and the actual habits of the driver ALL INTERACT UNIQUELY to determine if the battery is operating [too] deeply into its reserves or not on a regular basis.
To the extent it is, is to the extent your battery WILL fail prematurely, and how prematurely.
The engineers who designed the car took great pains to assure that you don't inadvertantly, and on a regular basis, dip into that reserve deeper than the modelled use scenarios of the car and working design parameters of the total electrical system permit.
When you change pulleys you fundamentally change those relationships: some under most conditions, but mostly under idle/slow-speed conditions. Depending on the above use factors, two identical cars can experience vastly different lifespans and failure rates for various electrical components with altered pulleys. Fortunately most will only see a shortened battery life and some will see almost no change, but others can and will see battery and component failure ---
---IT ALL DEPENDS...
Generaly the electrical system design is such that the alternator can, at idle, satisfy all likely-concurrent loads: lights, a/c, stereo (at a subset of max output), ECU, etc.
Underdrive pulleys are a two-edged sword: spin the belt and/or driven devices slower (alt, compressor, etc) and you WILL experience:
-reduced accessory losses (a few more HP, especially at higher rpm)
-reduced accessory output
If you have a tune on the car, you can use the programmer to set the idle higher to compensate for some of the pulley reduction. This is a good idea since it will not give back any of the power gains at but will keep the battery better conditioned.
If you're lucky, running underdrive pulleys will just shorten battery life (can be considerably shorter -- from 6-8 years to 1-3 years DEPENDING ON YOUR DRIVING SITUATION.
If you have a Shaker 1000 and like it LOUD and BASSY, drive in stop and go traffic for much of your commute in pre-dawn hours in Phoenix, don't be surprised if your batter life is even shorter than 1-year.
If your daily driving is typically a freeway commute with little or no dead-stopidling, your battery life may not be affected much at all, even with heavy accessory use: a/c, lights, stereo...
Most people think of a battery kinda like a jug of water, you drain it down and the alternator fills it up, and as long as it doesn't run out (you get ahead of the alternator for too long a period) you're ok.
But that analogy is not entirely a good one. Battteries are generally only elastic in the top 10% of their capacity -- the deeper you dip beyond that starts to shorten their life by more and more (disproportionately). Once you get to the point where you're discharging up to 40% or so (depends on the quality and design of the battery), life span is greatly reduced, especially if it sits in the reduced state overnight (as opposed to being recharged before shut-off. However, DEEP cycling of even a quality automotive battery beyond its design-point even with a 'full' recharge will greatly reduce its life (a deep-cycled impaired battery will never reach full capacity again). Marine batteries are designed for deeper cycling but give up some other capabilities in the trade (marine batts are not recommeded for cars).
A severe service battery (e.g. optima yellow/red-top) will prevent spills and take much more vibration, but will not last any longer than a conventional battery of similar capacity and cycle-design.
So the net is, IMO, asking others if pulleys worked ok for them is not usefull in predicting how pulleys will work for you. The specifics of the car (alternator capacity at idle), the climate, the battery design/capacity, the actual daily driving conditions and the actual habits of the driver ALL INTERACT UNIQUELY to determine if the battery is operating [too] deeply into its reserves or not on a regular basis.
To the extent it is, is to the extent your battery WILL fail prematurely, and how prematurely.
The engineers who designed the car took great pains to assure that you don't inadvertantly, and on a regular basis, dip into that reserve deeper than the modelled use scenarios of the car and working design parameters of the total electrical system permit.
When you change pulleys you fundamentally change those relationships: some under most conditions, but mostly under idle/slow-speed conditions. Depending on the above use factors, two identical cars can experience vastly different lifespans and failure rates for various electrical components with altered pulleys. Fortunately most will only see a shortened battery life and some will see almost no change, but others can and will see battery and component failure ---
---IT ALL DEPENDS...
