King Cobra

I was just wondering if just putting a CAI on the engine that does not require a tune would damage anything in the engine over time?

And what would the damage, if anything, be?

Tres Wright

If the CAI does not require a tune, then it probably isn't worth putting on your car to begin with. You want a CAI that flows so well that a tune is REQUIRED. If it flows well, it will lean out the A/F mix which then needs to be richened via a tune.

As for what it will hurt, if a really good flowing CAI is installed w/o tune it will lean out the A/F as mentioned which could lead to burnt valves or rings. A lousy CAI won't have any effect though.

Rondosa

Exactly. I have the Steeda CAI, and my SCT locked me out temporarily becuase I had used up my 5 unlocks, but I HAD to use my car for a couple of days and MAN O MAN that was some wacky stuff.

Car kept having seizures and idling all wonky and then totally bogging itself down. I practically limped through a left hand turn once and almost got nailed by oncoming traffic. It kept throwing lean codes and whatnot. I don't know what DAMAGE you'd do if you run like this for a long time, but the car was not very driveable, you wouldn't want to use it like that.

You want the CAI to require the tune, like Tres Wright says...I can definately say that the Steeda one does change things significantly! Plus, with the tune, it runs like such a champ - it's crazy the difference when you get back in to a stock vehicle. never going back!!

Boomer

Read up on the 'no tune required' CAI's
and also take a look at what the gains are on other CAIs with tunes.
most of the HP that is added is in the octane.
Even on 87 octane tunes for CAI's the gain is negligable

You have to look at how a CAI is engineered.
No tune CAI's are engineered in a way that increases flow speed, but sticks with a specific volume rate, so that it doesn't go out of what with the tables that are in the PCM.

Tuned CAIs are engineered in a way that require a tune because not only is the flow speed increased, but also the volume, which requires some new tuning to the PCM. So you will get more power from those. This is true..BUT... most will opt for the higher octane tunes to gain even further power.

I've had some conversations a while back with Doug regarding my MRT intake and my same concern with not needing a tune, and him finding that @ WOT the engine was running a tad lean.
Because at that time the computer is in an open loop and not getting any info from the sensors... it doesn't try to compensate...
.....soooo... if I did that a LOT... yeah I could damage my engine.
So in other words if you hit WOT all the time, at least with the MRT
you'll want a tune. But it doesn't run lean on the closed loop, as the computer compensates.

Also note that with a tune, the power increase over not tuned was +/- 5hp at best.

For me, is it really worth spending the extra money for a tuner, to gain that? (as I'm not going to go and get a tuner and pay for 91-93 octane gas right now... ) probably not.

If you want max power... chances are you want a tuned CAI.
Good flow + torque or performance higher octane tune.

GRAYPNY

If the cold air induction does not require a tune there shouldn't be a problem. It could possibly run leaner and therefore hurt the engine down the road but who knows for sure?

FireFighterHill

Our mustangs are VERY sensitive to changes. Some CAI require a tune and if you dont flash it with one your check engine light will come on. As for damaging the engine i believe that depends on if you install the CAI correctly. By this I mean perform maintence on it like you would a stock air box. As for CAI stick with a name brand and do some research. I love my C&L!

King Cobra

What you say makes sense. I do want a small gain in HP but don't want to pay +20 cent per gallon more for it.

I have looked into a number of CAI's and one that looks promising is the one from AIRAID. Doesn't require a tune and states they get about +15 to +17 HP.
I was interested in increasing my MPG as much as wishing to increase the HP.

If I have to pay an extra 20 cent per gallon I am not saving anything.

I don't run with WOT all the time just once in awhile.

I may be old school with engines. But I never thought just putting a more efficient air filter system would cause engine damage or warranty issues. I was always under the impression that making the air flow into and out of the engine was benifial not damaging.

Are these engines that tight in design that changing something simple would break the engine?

Galaxie

The only potential damage I could see happening is if you over-oiled the filter and then that oil got deposited on the mass airflow sensor and caused the engine to run stupid/fail. You'd end up being in limp home mode or the car would sputter

King Cobra

I could see that happening if your not careful.

Boomer seems to have a good explanion of the CAI systems workings.

I would think that the Mass air flow sensor would pick up that there is an increase in airflow and compansate for it, otherwise what does the mass air flow sensor do.

Shea

Just one other caveat about CAIs and engine damage. Although I have never heard of this happening, it is possible that with a CAI you can get larger foreign particles inside your engine and that could cause damage.

This happens because most CAIs use a filter with larger pores in it than the stock one.

King Cobra

This is what I sent to the Airaid company asking them questions about their CAI system.

I have purchased one of your CAI’s for my 2006 Mustang GT. I like it but have heard some bad things about CAI systems. Your CAI system doesn’t require a tune, which is one on the reasons, I wanted it. A number of people said that it can damage the engine by making the air fuel mix too lean, and that will cause a valve or ring problem down the road.

Is this true?



Also a Ford dealer said that it can cause a warranty coverage issue problem if something goes wrong with the engine.

Is this true?


Your Dyno results have shown about a 17HP gain in the Mustang GT when using the Airaid system.

Is this 17HP gain with or without a tune being done?


This is the response I recieved back:

Michael

Thank you for your inquiry and thank you for your purchase of AIRAID intake. No Michael this intake system has been extensively
Tested if there were a lean condition you would have service engine lights showing up, their have not been any of these problem brought
Too our attention.
As far as the dealer warranty is concern if they could show in writing that the system caused the engine problem AIRAID will stand behind
You and help with the warranty there is a web site WWW.ENJOYTHEDRIVE.COM that will explain your wrights with regard to aftermarket
Parts. As my kit states there is no need too have a tuner so the dyno readings are with no other changes but the AIRAID system
Hope this answered your questions if there is anything else please E-MAIL me.

Thanks Bill

Webba

Dude Im not trying to be a smart a*s but if his response is the actual text he wrote to you then I would be scared as hell. I dont want anyone who slels that bad and screws grammar up that bad to be making parts Im going to put on my car but thats just me.
Now my turn to be a moron. WTF is a WOT??

Galaxie

I'd be worried with sloppy writing like that... ah well

King Cobra

I guess I should take your advice either based on your writtings.

"I don't want anyone who slels that bad..."

We all make grammer error and spelling errors.

Some of the best mechanics I've know couldn't spell worth a dam.

King Cobra

I'm an architect and I will admit, I am terrible at spelling.

But I do know how to put a building together with my eyes closed.

Tres Wright

Interesting, I'm an architect as well. I can forgive a spelling error or two, but when the poor spelling and grammar actually get in the way of understanding the message, that's inexcusable. I could barely read that response from Airaid because it was so poorly executed. I definitely would not deal with someone that can't bother to clean that up (spellcheck anyone?) Sure there are some great mechanics out there that can't spell, but that's not a mechanic responding to your email. It is the company's public relations person. If that's the best their public relations person can generate, I don't want to think about who might be building their products

Webba

Yep my bad on the spelling. I said I wasnt being a smart a*s and was giving my 2 cents. My reason is that judging from his response my gut instinct tells me his company is just a few people and his extensive testing is a crock of sh*t. But its your car, run what you want on it.

For anyone else could you please tellme what WOT stands for? TY

antdog

Wide open throttle.

Boomer

Yeah, regardless what that guy says.... you won't get your sensors reporting back to you at WOT in that open loop... so even if it was running lean, unless you dyno it and check the air/fuel.... you wouldn't know.

It only compensates during the closed loop, when the 2 or 3 sensors are reporting back.

Trying to find the writeup that doug had... if its still on the board

King Cobra

I'm not going to beat up on the guy. I understood what he was saying.

I e-mailed him, and he was nice enough to answer my questions.

From everything I've seen and read on Airaid they are not a bunch of losers playing mechanics as a side job.

So you are an architect too.

What kind of projects do your company do?