eromzek

Hey guys,

I've got an '05 being built on Thursday (21st), and am trying to get some mod's ordered and ready. I've done alot of research..and can't really single out which CAI I prefer...the C&L, or K&N. I saw a post earlier comparing the K&N to something else, but I'd really appreciate any input from ppl regarding C&L also. Any idea if one gets more hp to the wheels than the other? I heard K&N doesn't require a tune; I know C&L does..that translates to me that C&L may be better. In any case, please help me out guys!!! My baby's comin in soon and I need to let her breathe!!!

(ps..05 sonic blue, IUP, manual, dark charcoal int.)

Enfynet

With a tune I would imagine they run about the same. The K&N doesn't require a tune as it uses the stock HC trap. If your car is built w/out that I would bet you'll need to tune the K&N just as you would have to tune the C&L.

Firedude

I had the K&N and ran it without the trap(came with one)with no problems. I switched to the C&L because I got a real good deal on one and liked the looks better. The K&N ran great stock. It was hard to get a tune to work with it though. The C&L is very easy to get tunes. They both get hot by the way.

max2000jp

The C&L will IMO make more power, since it flows a heck of a lot more.

Enfynet

Isn't the max airflow limited by the throttle body? I would imagine they are both able to pull in the same volume of air through the TB.

Anyone try using a C&L tune with a K&N setup? I'll volounteer if no one has.

bigaloz

Why not try JLT, alot cheaper than the C & L.

eromzek

With regards to the C&L...would it be more worthwhile to leave the HC trap on or take it out?? I would think taking it out would be ideal, but I could be wrong.

Ranger

Really can't comment on whether the C&L or K&N is better. I have the K&N which I ran for 1,000 miles with the HC trap and then took it out. It ran ok but the mileage went down and I put the trap back in until I get a tune. IMO, with or without the trap, you are probably running a little lean. Had not heard that tunes were a problem with the K&N but think getting it on a dyno may be the best way to go in the long run

Herknav

The C+L replaces the entire intake, so the HC trap is not a factor.

Firedude

I tried the K&N with a C&L tune. Car went into failsafe mode. I was trying tunes through the mail on my K&N. I did get one to work. I used a stock intake tune and pulled out timing. I do not have a dyno close by.

BigWorm2005GT

C & L. Great performance and very reliable. Can't go wrong.

70MACH1OWNER

C & L with Predator tune running 93 octane. Higher cost but runs strong, looks great and absolutely no issues. Proven winner.
Scott

mlcrisis

Well, I'll chime in with my 2 cents worth.

1st the short version and what I ended up as the best for my personal situation:

C&L Cold Air Intake and the SCT Xcalibrator 2 tuning device ! Package deal of $650.00 Purchased from Doug at BamaChips (one of our forum supporting advertisers/parts suppliers). I must say that Doug's customer service was EXCEPTIONAL. He drove 40 miles or so to my house to install and tweek the tune, drove with me while testing the tune and trained me on using the tuning device (the SCT is extremely simple by the way). He loaded a 87, 89 and 93 tune along with the factory backup in the SCT. So far everything is great, the notorious drive by wire throttle response lag time is Gone, No check engine lights, car is running good (I went with the 87 octane tune).

Now the long version of details:

I also went through the agony of trying to decide which CAI to go with and also which tuning device. The choices of CAI's were quite numerous, i.e. C&L, K&N, JLT, Steeda, JMS, MAC, etc. The tuning device wasn't as bad, SCT Xcalibrator 2 or Diablosport Predator.

I'm not very knowledgeable on vehicle mods, mechanical and technical auto issues. I wanted something SAFE for my engine that shouldn't give me any headaches/problems. I wanted to deal with local people/companies that I could see and work with Face To Face (especially if I have problems), none of this over the internet stuff. And I wanted the biggest bang for my buck.

First I started looking for a local Dyno Shop in my area (Birmingham, AL). After a little searching and a few phone calls I found one - Walker Dyno Tune Extremely Helpful, didn't dog anybodys product, etc. After a lengthy conversation about CAI's, the C&L seemed to get the most positive "Hype".

Then I called SCT and Diablosport. Both very informative/helpful. Both seemed Neutral on CAI's and didn't dog anybodys product. To me the most noteable comments from both of them was - a heat shield around the air filter is preferred and most any mod to the engine should need a tune to be safe (of course, they both sell tuning devices - but it does make sense and goes along with everything else I've heard on this engine). Both indicated that they should have tunes out shortly for the K&N if I decided to go that route. I also got information on their authorized dealers/tuners in my area.

Next up, I called the local Diablosport dealer/tuner, Ron Willis at Strategic Performance. Very helful guy. Was willing to work with me on any CAI I ended up deciding to go with or just a tune with the factory airbox setup. Has his own dyno. Didn't dog any product. So what CAI does he sell - C&L

Next up, I called the local SCT dealer/tuner, Doug Studdard at BamaChips. Also very helpful. Also willing to work with me on any CAI I ended up decididng to go with, etc. Didn't dog any product. So what CAI does he sell - C&L

As much as I was trying to keep an open mind on CAI's when I started all this calling/investigating, in my heart, I had pretty much decided on either K&N or C&L. I liked the K&N since to me it gave a more "factory appearance", it was really my 1st choice, but it bugged me on the "doesn't need a tune" issue. Why does it supposedly not need a tune when every other CAI does, I have yet to find a answer to that question. The C&L appealed to me for its "show" appearance, in my opinion it really looks good.

Since I wanted local support, the C&L won hands down. So I called C&L to asked them about tuning devices. Like everyone else, they were helpful and informative. They didn't dog anybodys product and said it should work fine with either the Diablosport or the SCT. The guy did say that C&L had not done any testing or development with the SCT, only the Diablosport. More or less a personal preference as I understood it.

Well, the pricing of the C&L/Diablosport package and the C&L/SCT package were both neck and neck. I'm sure there's pro's and con's to both tuning devices, I'm not going to dog anybodys product either but in the end I went with the SCT tuning device. One thing I liked about the SCT over the Diablosport was the SCT using a USB cable to connect to the PC (much preferred and easier in my book) where the Diablosport using a older style serial cable to connect to the PC. Plus after talking with Doug at BamaChips, SCT was all he supported and sold.

Again, the choices I made are what I felt was best for me. I'm not a hot rodder or racer of any kind. Just a middle aged guy that wanted some more seat of the pants whow factor with the driving conditions safely permitted it and a cure for the throttle response issue. Other products might be better for your needs, I'm sure they all have their pros and cons, etc. Make a educated decision that meets your own needs the best.

Whew, finally the end. Sorry for the long drawn out reply. Sorry if I bored anybody and put them to sleep. Good Luck !!!!

Enfynet

I feel more informed, even if all you said was "no one was biased" a few times.

Anyways, I went the K&N/Predator route because of
1) K&N didn't need a tune immediately... I can handle that
2) I know K&N, I know people that have K&N (though, not in 05 mustangs)
3) I would need a tuner eventually when I do exhaust if I want the most out of my car
4) Price... I figure for $500 it was a good price for the pieces of equipment I got ($550 if you include the Serial-USB cable) vs spending $650+ seperately or for the C&L packages (those were my 2nd choice)

BRENSPEED

A lot of good info here.

First and far most I want to point out how great a tune is on the 05. Wether your CAI needs one or not the car drives so much better when tuned.

2nd I wanted to give my $.02 on the C&L. This is the system I run on my own GT and pretty much 90% of our customers cars. The power gain is great and we have had no quality problems.

3rd I wanted to explain what the "tune" is actually doing and why it is needed. In short your computer is set up for a certain A/F. Things like Load, Spark, and timing are all helping achieve the A/F that your computer wants to see. When you change your MAF you are most likely throwing off the A/F. That is why you see different tunes for different MAF's. Not that the actual performance setting are that drastically different but the A/F is adjusted differently (called the Mass Air Flow Curve). This is why loading a C&L tune for say a Steeda intake is not going to achieve a proper running engine. I have seen some air intakes take the A/F 30% off from what the computer was needing. This is why the tune is needed to bring that A/F back into control.

My preference is SCT but we also sell the predator. Both will add nice power but for us the SCT is a better option because we use the SCT software for custom tuning.

If you have more questions feel free to give me a call 574.834.7455

eromzek

Thank you all- you have all supplied great information and I really appreciate it, thanks again!!

traffic142

I have read the above and was leaning toward the sct tuner (the C & L is a done deal in CAI). However, the predator is able to be updated on line via the internet downloads. Is the SCT #2 able to do the same thing? or are you stuck with existing tunes preset or other. Thanks for any help or is it just option?

mlcrisis

I haven't done this yet, but as I understand it, the SCT2 holds 3 custom tunes plus the factory tune. Your tune dealer can send you revised or new tunes via the internet to load into the SCT2. You would have to select which of the 3 existing tunes in the SCT2 to be replaced with the new/revised tune from your tune dealer. The SCT firmware and all can also be updated via the internet from the SCT Download Site.

Maybe someone that has done this can chime in and verify my understanding of the process.

Firedude

You got it. I have been sent several through e-mails.

Mongoose

This subject has be thrashed about since the systems came out. Chose the JLT pipe because it was plastic and not as heat conductive as aluminum. I had no issues with mine because I wrapped it in heat reflective material. I am learning and installing the tunes from another air system that flows about the same amount. Drill is change the tune, run and log it then analyze the log data and make any changes I have recorded all the changes I have made and the results. No huge mistakes YET but it is very slow going.
Great to read your thread above. I wish we had someone as supportive in my area. If it were not for George helping me on line I would be hanging out there for sure.