Auto Meter Cobalt Gauges
1/28/07, 03:40 PM
#1
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Auto Meter Cobalt Gauges
I searched this topic here on TMS and also did some online research and this is what I have decided (I think......maybe some of you will provide some ideas here) I want to go w/ autometer cobalt gauges. I understand they are good gauges first of all, and secondly they will match my blue dash lights. With the Non Ic Whipple I figure Ill go with a boost gauge, A/F gauge (narrow band), and a fuel pressure gauge. I'm not going to be going to the track every weekend or driving this thing hard all the time at all, I just wanna know whats going on with the car. Do you all think these gauges will be ok for my situation? I want to go with mechanical gauges because of the cost. If I understand right, the fuel pressure gauges are electrical only, so I guess I don't have a choice there.......am I correct on this? Any advice or first hand experience is greatly appreciated.
I haven't decided on a gauge pod yet. I wanna get gauges figured out first then decide how they will be displayed.
Also, what additional parts will I need with this set up? Do the gauges come with adaptors, etc..... or do I need to buy additional accessories?
I haven't decided on a gauge pod yet. I wanna get gauges figured out first then decide how they will be displayed.
Also, what additional parts will I need with this set up? Do the gauges come with adaptors, etc..... or do I need to buy additional accessories?
1/28/07, 04:24 PM
#2
Legacy TMS Member
You def want an electric fuel gauge- they do make mechanicals but if you want to mount the gauge inside of the car, electric is a must. The difference is mechanical uses the actual fuel pressure to feed into the gauge- meaning you must run an actual fuel line to the gauge (in turn meaning you run a live fuel line INSIDE your interior). The electric gauge uses a sensor that mounts under the hood, and then sends only electric signals inside the car to drive the gauge. More expensive, yes- easier and safer to install, yes X2 for sure.
The Cobalt electric fuel pressure gauges include everything you need.....sensor, etc.
Be warned though, that accessing fuel pressure safely means that you need a fuel rail adaptor from Motoblue, Steeda, etc. These can be purchased for about $60. BUT, they will NOT clear your Whipple intake arm- nor will they clear my CDC shaker setup without raising the whole assembly about 1"- I've managed to make mine work, but to my knowledge no one has made it work with the Whipple. You either will have to splice into the main fuel feed line under the hood, or purchase aftermarket fuel rails that have an additional fitting already in place. Trust me, I've done my homework on this while studying for my own blower purchase.....
A mechanical guage will be just fine for vacuum/boost. Again, the Cobalt series comes with what you need except depending on where you access the vac/boost line, you may need a different size "T" other than what comes with the gauge- I had to buy one at Autozone for like $2.
An air/fuel guage is a really good idea, especially for a blown car. Just don't skimp on the quality, and be prepared for someone to have to install a bung on your midpipe, somewhere before the cats. I had this done on my factory midpipe last year (just for intensive dyno time, not a blower install) and it cost me $45. A good guage and accessories will probably cost you $300 to $400.
Lastly, check Ebay for Autometer guages. Its an easy way to save some cash.
Cobalt fuel pressure and vac/boost guages, SOS pod and Raptor shift light:
Video (fuel pressure was not operational at this time):
The Cobalt electric fuel pressure gauges include everything you need.....sensor, etc.
Be warned though, that accessing fuel pressure safely means that you need a fuel rail adaptor from Motoblue, Steeda, etc. These can be purchased for about $60. BUT, they will NOT clear your Whipple intake arm- nor will they clear my CDC shaker setup without raising the whole assembly about 1"- I've managed to make mine work, but to my knowledge no one has made it work with the Whipple. You either will have to splice into the main fuel feed line under the hood, or purchase aftermarket fuel rails that have an additional fitting already in place. Trust me, I've done my homework on this while studying for my own blower purchase.....
A mechanical guage will be just fine for vacuum/boost. Again, the Cobalt series comes with what you need except depending on where you access the vac/boost line, you may need a different size "T" other than what comes with the gauge- I had to buy one at Autozone for like $2.
An air/fuel guage is a really good idea, especially for a blown car. Just don't skimp on the quality, and be prepared for someone to have to install a bung on your midpipe, somewhere before the cats. I had this done on my factory midpipe last year (just for intensive dyno time, not a blower install) and it cost me $45. A good guage and accessories will probably cost you $300 to $400.
Lastly, check Ebay for Autometer guages. Its an easy way to save some cash.
Cobalt fuel pressure and vac/boost guages, SOS pod and Raptor shift light:
Video (fuel pressure was not operational at this time):
1/28/07, 07:45 PM
#3
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I recommend electric gauges for any temp/pressure/etc gauge that flows any LIQUID. Reasoning: if something breaks, leaks, comes loose, you will have a huge mess to clean
Mechanical is perfectly ok for vacuum/boost. If a line comes loose, you just have air.
Also, an oil temp gauge is a good one to have, as it shows whats going on with the engine. Also, if you loose water for some reason, your water temp gauge may not go up (b/c no water to measure), but your oil temp will.
just a suggestion. I personally don't like seeing "duplicate" gauges in a car, so I wouldn't recommend a water temp gauge or oil pressure gauge, since our cars already have one (albeit it may not be the most accurate, but it's somewhat functional)
Mechanical is perfectly ok for vacuum/boost. If a line comes loose, you just have air.
Also, an oil temp gauge is a good one to have, as it shows whats going on with the engine. Also, if you loose water for some reason, your water temp gauge may not go up (b/c no water to measure), but your oil temp will.
just a suggestion. I personally don't like seeing "duplicate" gauges in a car, so I wouldn't recommend a water temp gauge or oil pressure gauge, since our cars already have one (albeit it may not be the most accurate, but it's somewhat functional)
1/28/07, 08:04 PM
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....but to my knowledge no one has made it work with the Whipple.
I am in the middle of a Whipple install and if anyone can figure this out.... Let's just say I've come up with some very inventive ways of doing things in the past. I'll keep you posted on this.
....or purchase aftermarket fuel rails that have an additional fitting already in place.
Tom, can you shed light on this? Who makes fuel rails?
An air/fuel guage is a really good idea, especially for a blown car.
Absolutely a necessity but NOT a narrow band. These are basically useless. The following specifics are GM and I don't know if Ford is any different but it's sufficient to make my point: The stock O2 sensor sends a signal to the ECM/PCM between 0 and 1000 millivolts. This voltage oscillates from lean to rich repetitively in closed loop. At or near WOT, Ford's system goes to open loop (Power Enrichment for GM) and the voltage becomes fixed based on table values. Unfortunately, this fixed voltage does not correlate with any specific A/F ratio. This is the voltage the NB A/F ratio sees. This is why these gauges are basically useless.
Specifics:
Stoich ratio (14.64) is 450 millivolts on a NB O2 sensor. Stoich ratio is the goal in closed loop. But at or near WOT, Ford's open loop table's units are in lambda where 14.64 A/F ratio equals 1.00 lambda. A lambda of 0.80 means 80 percent of 14.64 or an A/F ratio of 11.71. Unfortunately even if the table reads 0.80, in the real world your engine will probably not be at an 11.71 A/F ratio. This can be as much as 1/2 point delta either way. A NB A/F ratio gauge will NOT give you an accurate A/F reading, only a NB O2 sensor millivolt reading. Because there is no "table" to convert this to an A/F ratio, the gauge is really useless under WOT when you need it the most.
Invest in a quality wide-band A/F ratio gauge. These gauges use a dedicated WB O2 sensor (1 to 2500 millivolts) and have a 0 - 5 volt reference output that can be used for datalogging. This is what dyno shops use or with your own WB gauge with a laptop with software/hardware, you can datalog real world data yourself.
Even if you don't datalog, the WB gauge is very accurate across its range, typically 10 to 1 A/F ratio up to, say, 18 to 1 and is the ONLY way to go. Not only is it super accurate but these gauge's display a digital readout -- very easy to see at WOT. So even if you don't datalog, you can keep an eye on the gauge and if you see a leanout condition, you can immediately let off the throttle. This is virtually impossible with a NB A/F gauge.
I am in the middle of a Whipple install and if anyone can figure this out.... Let's just say I've come up with some very inventive ways of doing things in the past. I'll keep you posted on this.
....or purchase aftermarket fuel rails that have an additional fitting already in place.
Tom, can you shed light on this? Who makes fuel rails?
An air/fuel guage is a really good idea, especially for a blown car.
Absolutely a necessity but NOT a narrow band. These are basically useless. The following specifics are GM and I don't know if Ford is any different but it's sufficient to make my point: The stock O2 sensor sends a signal to the ECM/PCM between 0 and 1000 millivolts. This voltage oscillates from lean to rich repetitively in closed loop. At or near WOT, Ford's system goes to open loop (Power Enrichment for GM) and the voltage becomes fixed based on table values. Unfortunately, this fixed voltage does not correlate with any specific A/F ratio. This is the voltage the NB A/F ratio sees. This is why these gauges are basically useless.
Specifics:
Stoich ratio (14.64) is 450 millivolts on a NB O2 sensor. Stoich ratio is the goal in closed loop. But at or near WOT, Ford's open loop table's units are in lambda where 14.64 A/F ratio equals 1.00 lambda. A lambda of 0.80 means 80 percent of 14.64 or an A/F ratio of 11.71. Unfortunately even if the table reads 0.80, in the real world your engine will probably not be at an 11.71 A/F ratio. This can be as much as 1/2 point delta either way. A NB A/F ratio gauge will NOT give you an accurate A/F reading, only a NB O2 sensor millivolt reading. Because there is no "table" to convert this to an A/F ratio, the gauge is really useless under WOT when you need it the most.
Invest in a quality wide-band A/F ratio gauge. These gauges use a dedicated WB O2 sensor (1 to 2500 millivolts) and have a 0 - 5 volt reference output that can be used for datalogging. This is what dyno shops use or with your own WB gauge with a laptop with software/hardware, you can datalog real world data yourself.
Even if you don't datalog, the WB gauge is very accurate across its range, typically 10 to 1 A/F ratio up to, say, 18 to 1 and is the ONLY way to go. Not only is it super accurate but these gauge's display a digital readout -- very easy to see at WOT. So even if you don't datalog, you can keep an eye on the gauge and if you see a leanout condition, you can immediately let off the throttle. This is virtually impossible with a NB A/F gauge.
1/28/07, 09:26 PM
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Dont' waste your money on a narrow band air/fuel gauge.... its worthless.
Spend the money on a wideband o2...
You spent how much money on a s/c only to cheap out on guages?
Trust me, get the right gauges the first time.
Spend the money on a wideband o2...
You spent how much money on a s/c only to cheap out on guages?
Trust me, get the right gauges the first time.
1/29/07, 05:29 AM
#7
Legacy TMS Member
Some additional info for you, in BLUE below......
Tom
+1, well said......
Tom
....but to my knowledge no one has made it work with the Whipple.
I am in the middle of a Whipple install and if anyone can figure this out.... Let's just say I've come up with some very inventive ways of doing things in the past. I'll keep you posted on this.
You'll be able to tap into the fuel line feeding the factory rails or the crossover tube that jumps from one rail to the other, if you're willing to cut and insert a T to do so- otherwise, here's a pic of what I'm referring to regarding the add-on Motoblue or Steeda pieces not working because of a lack of clearance; in this picture, the adaptor would fit directly under the fuel pressure regulator, in turn raising it's height by one inch and into the bottom of the Whipple intake arm:
Here's a pic if you choose to tap into the main feed line:
All pix courtesy of various MF members......!
....or purchase aftermarket fuel rails that have an additional fitting already in place.
Tom, can you shed light on this? Who makes fuel rails?
Sure, Metco high-flow billet rails...... checkout www.lethalperformance.com or call and ask for Jared.
An air/fuel guage is a really good idea, especially for a blown car.
Absolutely a necessity but NOT a narrow band. These are basically useless. The following specifics are GM and I don't know if Ford is any different but it's sufficient to make my point: The stock O2 sensor sends a signal to the ECM/PCM between 0 and 1000 millivolts. This voltage oscillates from lean to rich repetitively in closed loop. At or near WOT, Ford's system goes to open loop (Power Enrichment for GM) and the voltage becomes fixed based on table values. Unfortunately, this fixed voltage does not correlate with any specific A/F ratio. This is the voltage the NB A/F ratio sees. This is why these gauges are basically useless.
Specifics:
Stoich ratio (14.64) is 450 millivolts on a NB O2 sensor. Stoich ratio is the goal in closed loop. But at or near WOT, Ford's open loop table's units are in lambda where 14.64 A/F ratio equals 1.00 lambda. A lambda of 0.80 means 80 percent of 14.64 or an A/F ratio of 11.71. Unfortunately even if the table reads 0.80, in the real world your engine will probably not be at an 11.71 A/F ratio. This can be as much as 1/2 point delta either way. A NB A/F ratio gauge will NOT give you an accurate A/F reading, only a NB O2 sensor millivolt reading. Because there is no "table" to convert this to an A/F ratio, the gauge is really useless under WOT when you need it the most.
Invest in a quality wide-band A/F ratio gauge. These gauges use a dedicated WB O2 sensor (1 to 2500 millivolts) and have a 0 - 5 volt reference output that can be used for datalogging. This is what dyno shops use or with your own WB gauge with a laptop with software/hardware, you can datalog real world data yourself.
Even if you don't datalog, the WB gauge is very accurate across its range, typically 10 to 1 A/F ratio up to, say, 18 to 1 and is the ONLY way to go. Not only is it super accurate but these gauge's display a digital readout -- very easy to see at WOT. So even if you don't datalog, you can keep an eye on the gauge and if you see a leanout condition, you can immediately let off the throttle. This is virtually impossible with a NB A/F gauge.
I am in the middle of a Whipple install and if anyone can figure this out.... Let's just say I've come up with some very inventive ways of doing things in the past. I'll keep you posted on this.
You'll be able to tap into the fuel line feeding the factory rails or the crossover tube that jumps from one rail to the other, if you're willing to cut and insert a T to do so- otherwise, here's a pic of what I'm referring to regarding the add-on Motoblue or Steeda pieces not working because of a lack of clearance; in this picture, the adaptor would fit directly under the fuel pressure regulator, in turn raising it's height by one inch and into the bottom of the Whipple intake arm:
Here's a pic if you choose to tap into the main feed line:
All pix courtesy of various MF members......!
....or purchase aftermarket fuel rails that have an additional fitting already in place.
Tom, can you shed light on this? Who makes fuel rails?
Sure, Metco high-flow billet rails...... checkout www.lethalperformance.com or call and ask for Jared.
An air/fuel guage is a really good idea, especially for a blown car.
Absolutely a necessity but NOT a narrow band. These are basically useless. The following specifics are GM and I don't know if Ford is any different but it's sufficient to make my point: The stock O2 sensor sends a signal to the ECM/PCM between 0 and 1000 millivolts. This voltage oscillates from lean to rich repetitively in closed loop. At or near WOT, Ford's system goes to open loop (Power Enrichment for GM) and the voltage becomes fixed based on table values. Unfortunately, this fixed voltage does not correlate with any specific A/F ratio. This is the voltage the NB A/F ratio sees. This is why these gauges are basically useless.
Specifics:
Stoich ratio (14.64) is 450 millivolts on a NB O2 sensor. Stoich ratio is the goal in closed loop. But at or near WOT, Ford's open loop table's units are in lambda where 14.64 A/F ratio equals 1.00 lambda. A lambda of 0.80 means 80 percent of 14.64 or an A/F ratio of 11.71. Unfortunately even if the table reads 0.80, in the real world your engine will probably not be at an 11.71 A/F ratio. This can be as much as 1/2 point delta either way. A NB A/F ratio gauge will NOT give you an accurate A/F reading, only a NB O2 sensor millivolt reading. Because there is no "table" to convert this to an A/F ratio, the gauge is really useless under WOT when you need it the most.
Invest in a quality wide-band A/F ratio gauge. These gauges use a dedicated WB O2 sensor (1 to 2500 millivolts) and have a 0 - 5 volt reference output that can be used for datalogging. This is what dyno shops use or with your own WB gauge with a laptop with software/hardware, you can datalog real world data yourself.
Even if you don't datalog, the WB gauge is very accurate across its range, typically 10 to 1 A/F ratio up to, say, 18 to 1 and is the ONLY way to go. Not only is it super accurate but these gauge's display a digital readout -- very easy to see at WOT. So even if you don't datalog, you can keep an eye on the gauge and if you see a leanout condition, you can immediately let off the throttle. This is virtually impossible with a NB A/F gauge.
1/29/07, 12:34 PM
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Dammit I need to hurry and order mine. I've got this lonely D1 sitting in my buddies garage just waiting to make boost.
1/29/07, 12:45 PM
#9
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Well I pulled the trigger on gauges late last night. I went with the Autometer Cobalt boost/vac. mechanical gauge and the elec. fuel pressure gauge. I got talked out of the A/F by my local tuner and the Ford tech that is doing the install since I won't be doing any data logging. With only two gauges, I decided to go with the center dash mount gauge pod by Pro Pods (RPMoutlet.com). It is basically the CDC pod, but with only two gauges. I also went with the Moto Blue fuel rail adaptor. I appreciate all the imput and the pics. This ended up being the right decision for me.
1/29/07, 01:07 PM
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OKLACOP!!
welcome back bro, I have the cobalt gauges too! and they work great! you want a mechanical boost gauge and an electric fuel pressure gauge.
PM me and I'll send you the link to the bidder on ebay where you can get the LOWEST prices on those gauges, I saved myself $70 bucks on that buyer than autometer dealers.
welcome back bro, I have the cobalt gauges too! and they work great! you want a mechanical boost gauge and an electric fuel pressure gauge.
PM me and I'll send you the link to the bidder on ebay where you can get the LOWEST prices on those gauges, I saved myself $70 bucks on that buyer than autometer dealers.
1/29/07, 02:38 PM
#14
Legacy TMS Member
Heres a pic of the MMR adaptor- basically, just ties into the crossover hose or would probably work on the main supply line, either way like I said earlier. Here's a link to the site:http://www.lethalperformance.com/pag...b80fadbda78c0d
1/29/07, 03:41 PM
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So this is the one I need with the Whipple??????? RPMOutlet has already shipped mine. I'll worry about sending it back later. I'll eat it if I have to. I'm on a serious schedule for my install. It has to be done in one day and any delays will screw me up big time. I've got to have everything ready to go on the day I schedule it to be done. Anyway back to my question.......This MMR adaptor is the one I need for my fuel pressure gauge and it will work with the Whipple????????
UPDATE:
Lethal just told me that MMR no longer makes this product. They are currently trying to locate one for me and I'm waiting to hear from them. This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
UPDATE PART TWO:
Jared from Lethal performance just called me back and said he contacted MMR. He was able to get me one, but said they have quit making them. It is possible they will be a special order item in the future and not something they will keep in stock. WHEW!!!!!!!!!!
UPDATE:
Lethal just told me that MMR no longer makes this product. They are currently trying to locate one for me and I'm waiting to hear from them. This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
UPDATE PART TWO:
Jared from Lethal performance just called me back and said he contacted MMR. He was able to get me one, but said they have quit making them. It is possible they will be a special order item in the future and not something they will keep in stock. WHEW!!!!!!!!!!
1/29/07, 04:41 PM
#16
Is it very difficult to install electrical gauges? I have the SOS pod with cobalt water temp and oil pressure. I want to connect them to the factory gauges, is this something that someone like me who has no electrical knowledge can do?
1/29/07, 05:46 PM
#17
Legacy TMS Member
Regarding Jared at Lethal, it doesn't surprise me that he made the calls and got you one- his service is first class!
1/30/07, 10:46 AM
#19
Legacy TMS Member
Good deal- I may end up selling mine soon too....... I don't like the raised look of my CDC shaker kit now. If the MMR piece works well for you, let me know; I may end up making something like it myself.
Thanks,
Tom
Thanks,
Tom
1/30/07, 07:53 PM
#20
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Warning! Do not use the hose clamps pictured in post #7, the one with the yellow X, those worm style clamps are not for the high pressures of fuel injection, They need to be the solid band type with a bolt/nut. I tried to upload a pic but it wont for some reason. also here is an adaptor that you could use to tap into the rubber crossover (fuelrail to fuelrail) on the Whipple setup.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-M...spagenameZWD1V
I wouldn't cut into the main feed being its a hard plastic line and isn't to be compressed with a clamp
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-M...spagenameZWD1V
I wouldn't cut into the main feed being its a hard plastic line and isn't to be compressed with a clamp