Hey guys

Looking to get some big brakes to fill some 20" wheels.

Which combo do you prefer, and any other comments about any of them? (It'd be ~ $2500 either way)

(Personally, I like the big SSBC calipers front and the Baer 14" 2-piece rotors rear. Do you think it'd look weird for slotted-only fronts and cross-drilled rears? )

SSBC Force 10 V8 front, w/ Steeda 13" slotted rotors rear




OR



Wilwood 6 piston drilled front, w/ Baer 14" 2-piece drilled rotors rear

 

I think I would go with the Wilwoods.

However, SSBC is not a bad choice at all.

I say flip a coin haha.

 

I think the best brake solution for these cars are the Strange lightweight drag brakes.

 

I want to do some track days/road courses eventually, so need MORE braking power, not less

 

You might want to consider these (AP Racing) - available for front and rear (6 piston front, 4 piston rear)



In 2006 alone, AP Racing brakes were chosen by the series winners in Formula One (Alonso), NASCAR Nextel Cup (Johnson), Busch Series (Harvick), Craftsman Trucks (Bodine), LeMans 24 Hours (Magnusson, Gavin & Beretta), LMP2 (Maassen & Lohr), GT1 (Gavin & Beretta), GT2 (Bergmeister), GrandAm GT (Lally), Daytona Prototype (Bergmeister), BTCC (Neal), DTM (Schneider), WTC (Priaulx), Australian V8 Supercars (Kelly), P-WRC (Al Attiyah), British Group N (Higgins), and more.

Also, specialty manufacturers such as Aston Martin, Bugatti, Caterham, Holden HSV, Koenigsegg, Lotus, Noble, Spyker, TVR and more rely on AP Racing as the brake kits they install as standard equipment.

Feel free to give me a call (866-278-8287 x134) if I can be of any help.

Thanks

Page

 

AP is also a good choice.

 

I think the ssbc are useless weight. They chose form over function for those who want the "biggest" they can find. I like AP racing as you can match the front and rear.

 

[quote=StillenMustang07;5608301]You might want to consider these (AP Racing) - available for front and rear (6 piston front, 4 piston rear)

Thanks for the ideas all. But those AP Racing packages would be 5-6k minimum. Either of the two options above would be about $2500, and still give me 6 or 8 piston front brakes with 14" rotors.

What do you think about mix/match slotted and cross-drilled rotors though?

 

[quote=brauer;5608987]They MAY be a little pricey, but they are less expensive than Brembo's (who dont even make a rear kit), and are probably the best high performance braking system you can buy. If all you are concerned about is looks, the others will do.

People spend tons of time and money making their car fast, but give little thought to slowing it down just as quickly

 

[quote=StillenMustang07;5608989]
Wow, Page, the vitriol you express for products you don't carry ... that $1500 a year TMS advertiser subscription must really be grating...

I would venture to guess the other brakes DO slow a car down, though you might be right, they might just be blank facades just to make the car look good. Maybe AP really are the only functional ones...

And a little pricey ... twice the price? Twice the braking power? Don't think so... Maybe if Stillen expanded its selections to include some more reasonably priced items you'd sell more.

 

You DO get what you pay for....that's the bottom line.

People put less thought and spend less money on something that could potentially save their butt or life and more money on making the car go faster.

Talk with people who have these kits you are interested in and find out how they use them, how they feel about them and also investigate the cost of replacement components like pads, rotors, etc. Also consider the pad compound based on what YOU are doing with your car.

AP has a long standing racing use which attests to the quality of the product and when you have a product like that you can stand on the reputation and who uses it.

Brembo is also a fine system but as stated they do not make rear brakes. I own a Brembo setup (as well as multiple PBR setups) and the pads dust heavily and are expensive to replace but the performance IS good.

I also have experience with Baer and they work well.

I have not used SSBC products so I cannot speak first hand on them.

Stay away from lightweight drag brakes if you plan to run a track event. They are drag brakes for a reason and will not stand up to the abuse open track events will put to them...they are designed to stop you once....not over and over and over.

I can tell you that basing your decision on 6 or 8 piston is the wrong way to go about it....the number of pistons in a caliper do not automatically make one better than another...you need to focus more on pad composition and rotor design and less on how many pistons a caliper has....unless you are only after a "show factor". Consider a minimum of 4 piston design for performance and go from there based on your plans for the car and how you plan to use it.

Remember....brakes no matter the price are almost always cheaper than a stop at the body shop or stay at the hospital.....this is a serious performance modification and potentially the MOST important decision you will ever make when it comes to a performance modification.

 

Go with Wilwood or AP Racing, you don't need a frickin' 8 piston caliper, that's overkill.

 

Thanks, Paul, for the opinion and info. I agree with most everything you said.
I've obviously given the wrong impression with my first post. This will be the first upgrade on my Mustang outside of (fairly light) wheels and tires -- much more important than all the go faster upgrades to start with, in my opinion. Handling parts then come next.

That being said, I think it's ridiculous to pay $3k or more for each end of a brake upgrade, unless I'm doing some serious road racing, which I won't be doing with this car. I'm just not happy settling with the basic RotorPro, GT500, or even the Baer 2-piston front setups that are the most popular around here and are p to $1500 or so. I want something with more clamping force, rotor mass for fade resistance, and swept area to reduce braking distances. And a wider selection of pad material, which both of these have, for the occassional track day. I don't think $2K is too much for a good front brake setup.

The AP, Brembo, and Roush Trak pak are all way overpriced for what they are -- I can't imagine the margins those companies pull in, likely all going to more advertising for their products. All are basically 6piston calipers on a two-piece 14" or so rotor, costing $3k and up. Of course they all have good names -- that's what you get from lots of advertising and wide usage. I'm sure they're all good quality, just too pricey for me. Alot of what you're paying for is simply the name.

What I was hoping to get some answers on here at TMS was if anyone has experience with the SSBC or Wilwood setups, which are similar to the others but priced reasonably as they aren't nearly as well known, and that's the only way to be competitive in the marketplace. I'd like to hear from any owners of these or any other experience people know of. It's not a decision betwen 8 and 6 piston -- probably shouldn't have said that originally, just thought it was a nice pun, considering the V8/V6 options. I like the SSBC system because it's a slotted design, eliminating the chance of drilled rotors cracking, and it obviously has a large pad area. To go with it, I'd likely get the Steeda rear 13" slotted set, which I've read is quite good overall. But, the 14" two piece Baer rear disc would be nice for the placement of the caliper further from the center, potentially giving greater torque generation by the caliper, and the offset in weight using the 2-piece design. It'd just look strange, I think, having slotted discs up front and cross-drilled in the rear, hence possibly going for the similar looking Wilwood setup.

I'm also looking for opinions on complimentary rear setups for either of these, but keeping the factory calipers and not having any problems with the ABS there (locked rear=bad) or the parking brake. SSBC has a rear setup but I don't like it.

I was hoping to get some educated opinions on the SSBC and Wilwoods, but so far no luck. Maybe I'll have to act as guinea pig for one of these setups.

 

That's exactly what I was getting at...the intended useage strongly dictates what you buy and I agree....the biggest, baddest brakes available are often overkill for someone doing hobby track days....but that can also depend on the power level of their car.

Being in the business I can assure you that the margins are NOT what you might think...the automotive parts business in general has some of the worst margins out there! You want margins? walk into a Hallmark store....you want SERIOUS margins....walk into most chain jewelry stores!!!(trust, me I used to be in the gift/toy business as a sales rep).

Advertising won't do a thing if your product is no good but the comparison varies greatly based on intended use....if you had a car that really needed serious brakes for your useage then the entry fee to the more expensive brake systems wouldn't really be as much of a factor.

.

Here is where the old wives tale spreads misinformation and people think that cross drilled rotors crack.....the TRUTH of the matter is that ANY rotor can crack...just because a rotor is cross drilled does not make it more suseptible to cracking. The pad compound and user habits dictate that issue....put a very aggressive pad on the rotor where the pad material consists of materials harder than the rotor itself and you increase the risk of cracking....likewise, braking hard and just stopping without allowing the rotor to cool evenly also seriously increases the chance of cracking and this is primarily what causes warping in rotors. The other factor is rotor quality....rotors like Powerstop and Powerslot that are cast in China are VERY prone to cracking due to inferior cast metals used. But just because it's been spread across the internet(mostly by people who have never owned cross drilled rotors) that cross drilled rotors crack everyone starts to believe it which is not the case and there is far more to the equation as I outlined above. Simply going to a slotted rotor will NOT eliminate the chance of cracking.

Also ALWAYS remember to NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use your parking brake after a track event...unless you like the idea of fusing your rear brake pads to the rotors .

Another important thing to keep in mind is that your tires are also part of your braking system .

 

Hey Paul. Good points. My understanding has always been that rotor cracking (drilled or slotted) is a function of repetitive extreme heat cycling, worsened by uneven expansion/contraction of the rotor, as you said similar to what will cause warping, but instead creating a more brittle rotor that is prone to crack. I know enough about materials and mechanics to say that drilling material out of the brake will cause both less mass for heat absorption/dissipation, and create stess risers in the disc itself. So when a drilled rotor does crack, it usually happens at the drill holes. I'd imagine a slotted rotor would crack at the borders of the rotor (inner or outer for a two piece), though I don't know this for sure?

Also, I appreciate what you said about the margins in the automotive industry, but I was referring to the manufacturer's, not the resellers/dealers'. There is no way the per unit production price of an AP or Brembo brake set is over $3k. These are essentially luxury, brand name components that their manufacturers can charge high prices for because they know their market will support it. That always leaves an opening in the market for less well-known makers to underprice them. Though who knows about those companies' (ie SSBC and wilwood in this case) comparable quality, which is the entire point of my post in the first place.

So, I know you don't have any direct experience with either, but looking at their products, which would you go after?

Looking around the web a bit, just saw that Baer introduced last month a lower priced 6P system I might go with instead of either of these two, costing about $1900 for the front. They are drilled and slotted, but at least Baer is a known quantity when rotor manufacture is concerned.

http://www.baer.com/products/calipers/calipers-6p.php

What do you think?

 

[quote=brauer;5609319]
Actually, we DO carry Brembo - have since they first came into the US in the early 90's I believe it was. And, the AP's arent twice the price - they are less expensive than the Brembo GT brakes.