Tale of 2 lovers
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Bullitt Member
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Let me just say I have been in LOVE with the 2005 Mustang ever since it was a concept car. I have had my heart set on buying one (just saving up a nice down payment). But... on Friday something changed inside my mind.
I test drove a 2005 Mazda RX-8.
I didn't stop smiling the entire 20 minute test drive. We took it on windy country roads, straight city streets, and interstate driving. I had the thing doing 90 in 4th gear, and it felt like it had PLENTY of spunk left. Very unique exhaust tone, but not in a bad way. The interior and exterior quality were VERY nice. Shifter was short, crisp, and shifted nicely for someone who hasn't driven a stick in a year or more. The salesman and all people at the dealership were VERY helpful and VERY nice (espically to a 22 year old interested in a 30k sports car!). They genually seemed like they would help me in any way. This is a stark contrast to my dealings with Ford so far...
Test drove a 05 V6, only because I convinced the owner of a dealership to let me take my ill mom out for a quick spin (she owned a 65 Mustang with Pony interior, and she only leaves the house to go to the Dr now a days
). NO dealer I go to will even CONSIDER letting me get NEAR a 05 GT unless I lay down cash first. They all seem dis-interested in me. Would probably have a very hard time getting out the door with anything less than MSRP (I won't pay anything above $1000 over MSRP). I would need a MAXIMUM of 4.9 or 5.9% APR for the course of my loan (probably 60-72 months). I can afford the payments on EITHER car easy enough, just Ford doesn't seem to want to deal with a youngster like me... Mazda does.
So here is the ultimate goal of this post... I need the pros and cons of each car. I'm sure I would love both, but Ford's customer service is really turning me off. I love the burble of a nice V8... but the rotary exhaust note is in a class of its own. Have I lost my mind, or is Ford's lack of interest in me just turning me off, and possibably pushing me away from dealing with them AT ALL?
EDIT - forgot to add the Mazda salesman was very up front about the oil burning problem with the rotary engine. I doubt Ford would be so generous with information about its sports car...
I test drove a 2005 Mazda RX-8.
I didn't stop smiling the entire 20 minute test drive. We took it on windy country roads, straight city streets, and interstate driving. I had the thing doing 90 in 4th gear, and it felt like it had PLENTY of spunk left. Very unique exhaust tone, but not in a bad way. The interior and exterior quality were VERY nice. Shifter was short, crisp, and shifted nicely for someone who hasn't driven a stick in a year or more. The salesman and all people at the dealership were VERY helpful and VERY nice (espically to a 22 year old interested in a 30k sports car!). They genually seemed like they would help me in any way. This is a stark contrast to my dealings with Ford so far...
Test drove a 05 V6, only because I convinced the owner of a dealership to let me take my ill mom out for a quick spin (she owned a 65 Mustang with Pony interior, and she only leaves the house to go to the Dr now a days
). NO dealer I go to will even CONSIDER letting me get NEAR a 05 GT unless I lay down cash first. They all seem dis-interested in me. Would probably have a very hard time getting out the door with anything less than MSRP (I won't pay anything above $1000 over MSRP). I would need a MAXIMUM of 4.9 or 5.9% APR for the course of my loan (probably 60-72 months). I can afford the payments on EITHER car easy enough, just Ford doesn't seem to want to deal with a youngster like me... Mazda does.So here is the ultimate goal of this post... I need the pros and cons of each car. I'm sure I would love both, but Ford's customer service is really turning me off. I love the burble of a nice V8... but the rotary exhaust note is in a class of its own. Have I lost my mind, or is Ford's lack of interest in me just turning me off, and possibably pushing me away from dealing with them AT ALL?
EDIT - forgot to add the Mazda salesman was very up front about the oil burning problem with the rotary engine. I doubt Ford would be so generous with information about its sports car...
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Cobra Member
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From: 'neath a cactus
As a former owner of a RX-7 I can tell you that Mazda makes a sweet car. When I had my RX, every day was a fun commute to work!
The Wankel engine in the RX, however, has had a rocky past. The older generation had a definite propensity to burn oil and eat gaskets. The engine, on the other hand, sounded (and ran) better the faster you drove. And worst of all, most non Mazda mechanics had no clue how to work on the engine.
A buddy of mine, a former wrench turner for a local GM dealership, once said to me "If the rotary engine is so good why don't other cars companies use it". The more I think about that statement the more it DOES tend to make me wonder.
I looked at the 05 RX-8's right after they came out. Before heading to the dealership I thought this could be my next new car. Once I got there I was suprised that I really didn't like the styling of the new Mazda. That suicide door just looks odd and the interior didn't do much for me either. Of course thats just my opinion...
The Wankel engine in the RX, however, has had a rocky past. The older generation had a definite propensity to burn oil and eat gaskets. The engine, on the other hand, sounded (and ran) better the faster you drove. And worst of all, most non Mazda mechanics had no clue how to work on the engine.
A buddy of mine, a former wrench turner for a local GM dealership, once said to me "If the rotary engine is so good why don't other cars companies use it". The more I think about that statement the more it DOES tend to make me wonder.
I looked at the 05 RX-8's right after they came out. Before heading to the dealership I thought this could be my next new car. Once I got there I was suprised that I really didn't like the styling of the new Mazda. That suicide door just looks odd and the interior didn't do much for me either. Of course thats just my opinion...
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I also think that the RX8 is a nice car, but ... there is nothing like the rumble of a V8 and the feeling of being behind the large hood of the new Mustang. My advice to you is that you get the car you want - and try not to base it on how nice the dealer is to you. The Mazda dealer is being smart in the way that they treat you - they want your business. I also think that if you looked around you could easily find a Ford dealer that wants your business, one that would treat you with the respect that you deserve. You also might save some $$. In fact, there are a couple of dealers that are members of this site that would treat you very nicely. Best of luck to you.
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It may not be fair to lump all Ford dealers together, try another until you find the service you're looking for.
Both cars are great but for me the Mustang is more than a great car in an intangible gestalt way that a symbolic configuration so unified as a whole that its properties cannot be derived from a simple summation of its parts. You might think of it as magic, soul or heart I just call it MUSTANG.
Both cars are great but for me the Mustang is more than a great car in an intangible gestalt way that a symbolic configuration so unified as a whole that its properties cannot be derived from a simple summation of its parts. You might think of it as magic, soul or heart I just call it MUSTANG.
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Originally posted by Martimus@January 16, 2005, 7:59 AM
A buddy of mine, a former wrench turner for a local GM dealership, once said to me "If the rotary engine is so good why don't other cars companies use it". The more I think about that statement the more it DOES tend to make me wonder.
A buddy of mine, a former wrench turner for a local GM dealership, once said to me "If the rotary engine is so good why don't other cars companies use it". The more I think about that statement the more it DOES tend to make me wonder.
When the RX-8 came out I (briefly) thought about giving up my 96 GT (hey, I said briefly B) ) but the body style did nothing for me. Also, at 6'4" the low roof is no help. I'm biding my time for an 06 SE
- Will
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Originally posted by MustangDan@January 16, 2005, 9:22 AM
Both cars are great but for me the Mustang is more than a great car in an intangible gestalt way that a symbolic configuration so unified as a whole that its properties cannot be derived from a simple summation of its parts. You might think of it as magic, soul or heart I just call it MUSTANG.
Both cars are great but for me the Mustang is more than a great car in an intangible gestalt way that a symbolic configuration so unified as a whole that its properties cannot be derived from a simple summation of its parts. You might think of it as magic, soul or heart I just call it MUSTANG.
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Originally posted by MustangDan@January 16, 2005, 8:22 AM
Both cars are great but for me the Mustang is more than a great car in an intangible gestalt way that a symbolic configuration so unified as a whole that its properties cannot be derived from a simple summation of its parts. You might think of it as magic, soul or heart I just call it MUSTANG.
Both cars are great but for me the Mustang is more than a great car in an intangible gestalt way that a symbolic configuration so unified as a whole that its properties cannot be derived from a simple summation of its parts. You might think of it as magic, soul or heart I just call it MUSTANG.
But none of them is a Mustang. There is an intangible that only this car posesses.
I have not been exactly happy with my service at Ford, either. But at least they let me test drive a GT! (I think a lot of folks are pulling their chains asking for test drives and then they never come back to buy. This was my dealer's excuse for the deposit requirement.)
My advice? 1) Find a way to get behind the wheel of a GT before you make your decision; 2) Don't base your buying decision on the dealership or the crummy service. Get the car you want because it's the car YOU want. Otherwise you won't be happy with what you drive home in a couple years.
I'll be proud of and happy with my Mustang until I die. "You can have my Mustang when you pry my cold, dead fingers from the steering wheel!!" heheh
Just my two cents!
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I too considered an RX-8 because of my Ford X-plan. But when it came down to put up the cash, the bang-for-the-buck, the V-8 growl of the 4.6 3V, and the aggressive look of the 'Stang won me over hands down.
A good pro's and con's article between the Mustang GT, RX-8, and Nissan 350Z can be found here: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...line.promo.2g.*
If not the 'stang, you ought to test drive and consider the 350Z too, it sounds like a better car than the RX-8 based on the review and what I've heard from others.
A good pro's and con's article between the Mustang GT, RX-8, and Nissan 350Z can be found here: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...line.promo.2g.*
If not the 'stang, you ought to test drive and consider the 350Z too, it sounds like a better car than the RX-8 based on the review and what I've heard from others.
I lust for a M24
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From: Football HOF, Canton OH
Yeah, check out that 350z. A Z car has a similar story line as the mustang. Both have their fan clubs, both started off as a poor mans sports car, etc... The Z car is very nice, IMO it's fit and finish is supurb. Check it out and good luck on your decision. Many Ford dealers seem to treat you like a bad used car dealer rather than the courtesy and respect you get from others. Again, good luck.
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From: Niantic CT
Warbird, like a previous reply said, don't assume that FORD doesn't want your business because one dealer treated you like that. And please don't dismiss the Mustang because of that dealer!
Many dealers are not giving out test drives with GTs, regardless of the drivers' ages. There just are not many spare GTs around to use for test drives. I'm 49, and could only get a test drive at one of the four dealers I went to that had GTs on their lot.
The editors of that Mustang/350Z/RX-8 comparison test were unanimous in their conclusion that the Mustang is the best car of the three, especially when it comes to value. Even when money was no object, they said they'd take the Mustang after they wrung out all three. The Mustang won every category of the comparison in their minds.
The only thing I like better about the RX-8 than the Mustang is those suicide doors for the rear passengers. But I rarely have rear passengers so it's not really relevent to me. Other than that, the Mustang has far more power (not even the same league), better looks, and an attitude that announces itself wherever you drive the car. The RX-8 is stealthy in comparison.
On the downside, at 22 years old, the Mustang will likely kill you in insurance. You'll save thousands at the initial purchase with the Mustang (compared to the 350Z or RX-8), but then pay later in insurance...
Personally, if you don't like the brashness of the Mustang, I'd go with the 350Z before I went with the Mazda. The Mazda is just lacking in power compared to the Z and the Mustang, and if I'm only getting 18mpg, I want to at least have some horsepower to show for it!
Many dealers are not giving out test drives with GTs, regardless of the drivers' ages. There just are not many spare GTs around to use for test drives. I'm 49, and could only get a test drive at one of the four dealers I went to that had GTs on their lot.
The editors of that Mustang/350Z/RX-8 comparison test were unanimous in their conclusion that the Mustang is the best car of the three, especially when it comes to value. Even when money was no object, they said they'd take the Mustang after they wrung out all three. The Mustang won every category of the comparison in their minds.
The only thing I like better about the RX-8 than the Mustang is those suicide doors for the rear passengers. But I rarely have rear passengers so it's not really relevent to me. Other than that, the Mustang has far more power (not even the same league), better looks, and an attitude that announces itself wherever you drive the car. The RX-8 is stealthy in comparison.
On the downside, at 22 years old, the Mustang will likely kill you in insurance. You'll save thousands at the initial purchase with the Mustang (compared to the 350Z or RX-8), but then pay later in insurance...
Personally, if you don't like the brashness of the Mustang, I'd go with the 350Z before I went with the Mazda. The Mazda is just lacking in power compared to the Z and the Mustang, and if I'm only getting 18mpg, I want to at least have some horsepower to show for it!
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I really don't take too much stock in what reviewers say as they may have a completely different set of priorities than you. You really must drive them both, hopefully back-to-back as they are quite different behind the wheel. Big V8 power in a relatively heavy chassis with lots of body roll v. small nimble rotary with a tighter more agile chassis.
Also, don't forget the RX-8 consumes gas and oil like mad, especially when considering the power output (or lack thereof).
For me, the size and torque of the Mustang win out. Now, if rominess wasn't an issue (I 6'2" and like to sit upright), I would serious consider the Z, but it is just too small for me, and I need the back seat. It has much more torque than the RX-8, but lighter and a little more nimble than the Mustang.
Ultimiately, it boils down to what you are looking for in a car, and how you will be using it. The only way you will be able to decide is to drive them both.
Also, don't forget the RX-8 consumes gas and oil like mad, especially when considering the power output (or lack thereof).
For me, the size and torque of the Mustang win out. Now, if rominess wasn't an issue (I 6'2" and like to sit upright), I would serious consider the Z, but it is just too small for me, and I need the back seat. It has much more torque than the RX-8, but lighter and a little more nimble than the Mustang.
Ultimiately, it boils down to what you are looking for in a car, and how you will be using it. The only way you will be able to decide is to drive them both.
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Thanks for the quick replies everyone! After reading everything and thinking about it, I am still leaning heavily toward the 'Stang. Now just to deceide which color it should be...
But about the dealers I have visited... I have been to 4 different dealers in Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee. ALL of them were rude and didn't seem willing to help me. I've been thinking of going back to the dealer we got my Sable at. My dad knows the owner, so maybe he can hook me up with a (semi) sweet deal. Just gotta test drive the car to get a feel for her.
Of course, the actualy purchase of a car is still a few months down the road. I've deceided to use the Mustang as a motivational tool to get in shape. Once I get in descent shape, I'll go buy a car.
AND there's the 05 or 06 option... I think I want a 2006 model, just because that would give Ford time to work out any bugs.
But about the dealers I have visited... I have been to 4 different dealers in Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee. ALL of them were rude and didn't seem willing to help me. I've been thinking of going back to the dealer we got my Sable at. My dad knows the owner, so maybe he can hook me up with a (semi) sweet deal. Just gotta test drive the car to get a feel for her.
Of course, the actualy purchase of a car is still a few months down the road. I've deceided to use the Mustang as a motivational tool to get in shape. Once I get in descent shape, I'll go buy a car.
AND there's the 05 or 06 option... I think I want a 2006 model, just because that would give Ford time to work out any bugs.
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hmm i understand but its the dealer..........im 18 and test drove one without flashing a dime.......especially in NJ........they have treated me like they would treat any other customer and im soo pleased with their service that im ordering on tuesday........if ur smart ud stay away from the RX-8
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I also looked closely at the rx8 and test drove one.I felt that the down side was the low torque of the motor. Once rolling and with the rpm.s revving it really started to feel fast. I to was leary about a rotary motor and the limited amount of service facilities other than the stealership. On the plus side, you do not see alot of them on the road and I like that. Try a V8 you will want one.
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From: Virginia
Originally posted by Rampant@January 16, 2005, 11:20 AM
For me, the size and torque of the Mustang win out. Now, if rominess wasn't an issue (I 6'2" and like to sit upright), I would serious consider the Z, but it is just too small for me, and I need the back seat.
For me, the size and torque of the Mustang win out. Now, if rominess wasn't an issue (I 6'2" and like to sit upright), I would serious consider the Z, but it is just too small for me, and I need the back seat.
Yea verts! :w00t:
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2005 Mustang GT
Price: $26,900
Miles Per Gallon: --/-- mpg
Curb Weight: 3425 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 5-Speed Manual/5-Speed Automatic
Engine
Type: V8
Displacement: 4601 cc
Horsepower: 300 bhp @ 6000 rpm (Actually 310 bhp and 315 bhp on premium gas)
Torque: 315 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm
Redline: 6250 rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 5.1 sec
0-100 mph: 13.2 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.9 sec @ 104 mph
Skidpad: .85g
Top Speed: --- mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 116 ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph
Mazda RX-8
Price: $26,680
Miles Per Gallon: 18/24 mpg
Curb Weight: 2970 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
Engine
Type: Renesis 2-Chamber Rotary
Displacement: 1308 cc
Horsepower: 238 bhp @ 8500 rpm
Torque: 159 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm
Redline: 9000 rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 5.9 sec
0-100 mph: 15.9 sec
Quarter Mile: 14.5 sec @ 96 mph
Skidpad: .88g
Top Speed: 150 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 114 ft
Slalom Speed: 65.4 mph
I dont have all the numbers on the stang but what is there, the stang beats the RX-8 all around. Not to mention it is a much nicer looking car and is more iconic and classic, a part of Americana that will live on forever. It is a fun car to drive and I think once you get behind the wheel of one the debate will be over. You need to find a dealer who is willing to let you drive one, heck tell them your interested in buying it, because you are, and that you are serious, take it out for a spin, and if you still like the RX-8 better, you won't, than say "Sorry its just not what I expected, or what I am looking for." They cant keep your money if your not going to buy it and you have the right to drive it before buying it and change your mind at any point before you pay for it.
Price: $26,900
Miles Per Gallon: --/-- mpg
Curb Weight: 3425 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 5-Speed Manual/5-Speed Automatic
Engine
Type: V8
Displacement: 4601 cc
Horsepower: 300 bhp @ 6000 rpm (Actually 310 bhp and 315 bhp on premium gas)
Torque: 315 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm
Redline: 6250 rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 5.1 sec
0-100 mph: 13.2 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.9 sec @ 104 mph
Skidpad: .85g
Top Speed: --- mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 116 ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph
Mazda RX-8
Price: $26,680
Miles Per Gallon: 18/24 mpg
Curb Weight: 2970 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
Engine
Type: Renesis 2-Chamber Rotary
Displacement: 1308 cc
Horsepower: 238 bhp @ 8500 rpm
Torque: 159 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm
Redline: 9000 rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 5.9 sec
0-100 mph: 15.9 sec
Quarter Mile: 14.5 sec @ 96 mph
Skidpad: .88g
Top Speed: 150 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 114 ft
Slalom Speed: 65.4 mph
I dont have all the numbers on the stang but what is there, the stang beats the RX-8 all around. Not to mention it is a much nicer looking car and is more iconic and classic, a part of Americana that will live on forever. It is a fun car to drive and I think once you get behind the wheel of one the debate will be over. You need to find a dealer who is willing to let you drive one, heck tell them your interested in buying it, because you are, and that you are serious, take it out for a spin, and if you still like the RX-8 better, you won't, than say "Sorry its just not what I expected, or what I am looking for." They cant keep your money if your not going to buy it and you have the right to drive it before buying it and change your mind at any point before you pay for it.
Big Falken Tires
Joined: October 17, 2004
Posts: 4,601
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As far as design goes, also remember you would be getting a new American CLASSIC - the first rediesigned Stang in DECADES - first of a new breed. In a few years it will still be known and seen as that. Five years down the road, the RX 8 will still be... another Mazda....
NOT to put the car down - I actually thought about the RX 8 cause I do dig them and like the styling. But when I priced one out for the heck of it with a comparable load to my GT, it came out (all price plans out of it) to at least 3000 granbd more than the Mustang (automatic chosen).
In the end, you go with what you WANT and what will make YOU happy.
(but don't expect the crazy Pony drivers/lovers who live on this site to tell you anything but the obvious - find a better dealer and get yourself a 'Stang!! )
[and traveling for a dealer might be worth it - I chose a place an hour and 15 minutes away from where I live cause I knew they would treat me right.]
NOT to put the car down - I actually thought about the RX 8 cause I do dig them and like the styling. But when I priced one out for the heck of it with a comparable load to my GT, it came out (all price plans out of it) to at least 3000 granbd more than the Mustang (automatic chosen).
In the end, you go with what you WANT and what will make YOU happy.
(but don't expect the crazy Pony drivers/lovers who live on this site to tell you anything but the obvious - find a better dealer and get yourself a 'Stang!!
)[and traveling for a dealer might be worth it - I chose a place an hour and 15 minutes away from where I live cause I knew they would treat me right.]
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