BillP

I can't believe the title of this thread.

"Engine vs. Car, which is quicker?"

Heck, a Yugo is faster than an LS1. A motor on a stand doesn't do anything. Well, it runs about the same times as that 2005 Camaro.

LS1 is a great motor. But it's bench racing to compare a motor to a complete car. It just doesn't make sense.

Dan

Greetings Dan

The new GT is quicker that any GT in years, but if you look the mph, they're stuck in the 99-102 range (I heard of a 103). Prove of that this new GT hook up really good, but dies @ higher rpm's.

I'm not saying the new GT is slow, is a 13 second car in stock form and that is fast, but they're not putting the numbers and mph's of Mach1's as it were xpected and rumored.

Route for 12's in a 05GT by JDM:
*Dyno tuned with SCT software in house.
* JDM catback exhaust system
* Underdrive pulleys
* QA1 Rear Shocks
* 4:30 Gears
* 17" ET Streets

12's in a Mach1:
-Sticky tires

But that's now, in all, the s197 is a better platform to begin with. Wait for SE's and the next Cobra.

f e r [/b][/quote]
Hey f e r,

I see what you're saying and you're right, they aren't trapping what the Machs are, but the 1/4 mile times (see new 13.35sec time thread) are in the same ballpark.

Also, I think a set of stickies and a good driver could potentially get this thing to 12.9x. Just give people time to practice. There aren't many people dragging them right now and the Mach has been out for a while.

Also, JDM got a 12.5sec no? The Mach with stickies was 12.9 or something. I don't think we have a time with just stickies on an 05. The Mach would need similar mods to get to mid 12's.

Dan

bigred0383

I thought it was pretty funny.

f e r

:crazy: You don't make sense.

Dan

:crazy: You don't make sense. [/b][/quote]
He means, just saying that the SS has a more powerful engine and is therefore faster isn't the right way to think about it, rather, its just one factor. Weight, gearing, engine, traction etc. must all be taken into account. And as we are discussing in another thread, rwhp/tq are more accurate a measure of power output. GM F-bodies were underrated and so is the 05 so what value do those factory specs really provide?

adrenalin

Sure sounds like the Camero would win :bang: but then again the camero cost a lot more than the Mustang. Sounds like the old Z350 vs Mustang comparison all over again.

bigred0383

The Camaro never cost more than the Mustang. It always cost less and had more power in all stock forms (Z-28 vs GT, SS vs Cobra, cannot be sure on the V6s though, don't know much about them). There were several reasons for it's demise however. Many fans felt the F-Body had strayed too far from the original. It was pretty obvious that the Ford's build quality was superior to the GM's. And even if the Fords cost more, they still sold a lot more. One reason was better marketing on Fords part, and I think the other is simply that the Mustang has a bigger general fan base, and more die hard loyal customers than the F-Bodies did.

This is a great article on the topic, and if you haven't read it before, it is definately worth your time:
http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudg...56/article.html

max2000jp

Well the LS1 comes in a variety of vehicles. My opinion is that we will get beat by the C5 manual and manual F-bodies. Auto's will be a challenge also depending on which gear the car came with. The 04 GTO will be very even, but I think we will beat them ET and they will trap higher.

Purple Hayz

There is little to no performence difference between the various LS1 powered f-bodies (despite what the occasional WS6/SS owner may claim). Both make about the same power at the crank (350, same as the Vette) and turn identical times. Think more along the lines of a (previous gen) GT vs. Bullit comparison than a GT vs. Mach 1 comparison, which is, in fact, substantive.

As for a head to head drag race, I'm in agreement with most folks here, having puchased (and extensively driven) both vehicles. The Stang can go neck and neck with an M6 LS1 f-body out of the shoot, but the Z28 will gradually walk away, particularly at the top end. A driver's race? For sure

But on average, the O5's are gonna need a little massaging to pull on the f-bodies...

holderca1

The thing I find amazing is that what is taking GM so long to develop new vehicles for the pony car class?? It has been 3 years since the Camaro and Firebird went our of production and the only replacement they have tried to fill the gaping hole is the GTO and they took that from there Holden counterparts. How long does it take to develop a new car from the ground up? I hope GM does it right when it finally brings them back.

norcalmustang

I'm not sure what you are on but Camaros have always had a higher price tag~

f e r

He means, just saying that the SS has a more powerful engine and is therefore faster isn't the right way to think about it, rather, its just one factor. Weight, gearing, engine, traction etc. must all be taken into account. And as we are discussing in another thread, rwhp/tq are more accurate a measure of power output. GM F-bodies were underrated and so is the 05 so what value do those factory specs really provide? [/b][/quote]


I though he was saying that the title was wrong because an ls1 motor (alone) does not have wheels,etc and you can't compare that to a complete (05 GT) running car

Then I said he wasn't making sense, because all people in the world knows that when you said ls1 you're talking about the 98-2003 V8 f-bodies.

f e r B)

bigred0383

I'm not sure what you are on but Camaros have always had a higher price tag~ [/b][/quote]
2001 SS http://www.fast-autos.net/chevrolet/...letcamaro.html
vs.
2001 Cobra http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/fordmustangcobra.html

2002 Z28 vs. 2002 GT (deluxe not the upgraded premium)http://www.carsdirect.com/research/c...,USB20FOC051D0

2002 was the last year to get yourself an F-Body.

Now in my research, I found that in the early 1990's the prices were almost exactly the same, usually about a couple hundred dollars difference. Sometimes the GM was more, sometimes the Ford. However the names changed A LOT in the 90s (RS, LX, GT, Z28, V6, Standard Coupe, Coupe, SS, SVT) and the prices went with them. However in the late 90s and early 00s the Fords consistently cost more than the GMs in amounts from several hundred to several thousand. The point I was trying to make is that, when the F-Bodies went away, they were offering much more performance for much less money on a consistent basis. Again I STRONGLY reccomend the following article for everybody to read.

http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudg...56/article.html

bigred0383

Sorry the one link got screwed up for the 2002's. Here it is again.

http://www.carsdirect.com/research/compare...0,USB20FOC051D0

And again I want to point out the GT is a Deluxe and not the upgraded more expensive Premium.

jman

"and anything more than 300, is overkill...unnecessary...and nothing more than feeding the ego IMO."

"buying the GT over the V6 is all about ego if you don't take it to the track, my friend. That's just a fact,"

I don't get it. Why does it have to be about ego? Couldn't it simply be that people like the feeling of accelerating fast? Do we go on roller coasters to satisfy our egos? My personal opinion is that a sports car begins at more than 5L and 350 ft-lbs of torque. Without violent amounts of torque, a car just doesn't excite me.

BillP

:crazy: You don't make sense. [/b][/quote]
What do you mean I don't make sense? The LS1 isn't a CAR, it's a MOTOR.

There are quite a few cars with LS1's in them. Camaro, Corvette, GTO, Trans Am.

What if the post said: Which is faster, a carburetor, or a Mustang? Does that make sense?

And no, I wasn't commenting on the Camaro, or any other car. I'm tired of people bench racing a motor they wish was in a 2005 Camaro (which doesn't exist) so they could compare it to the 2005 Mustang. So, instead, they compare a bare motor to an entire car.

Futile.

BillP

Maybe YOU are talking about the 98-2003 F-body, but then you are leaving out the rest of the LS1's.

I remember when the Z28 was an option number, not a car.

f e r

yeah yeah yeah, what you said

38special

max2000jp

Raced a GTO today, in the rain, on the Fairfax County Parkway. It was fast. In fact it was in my blindspot on the passanger side the whole time. I was ahead, but it was always there. I wonder if my tires made the difference.

I test drove a GTO and noticed the tires were not the best. The 05 GTO is supposed to be faster than the 04. I could not tell if it was an 05 or 04. I suspect an 04.