This contest is scheduled for one fall. Representing the USA is the 2005 Ford Mustang GT, powered by a 4.6 liter SOHC V8 with 300 bhp and 320 torque.

And on the opposite corner, representing Japan is the Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 V-Spec II. Under the hood is a 2.6 liter DOHC twin-turbo inline-6 with 280 bhp and 260 torque.

Which of these two cars is the superior one?

 

The Skyline is faster in the 1/4 mile....faster turning....better braking...and it cost twice as much as a Mustang GT..

I voted Skyline cause tecnicaly it is a better car...

But i would rather have a Mustang.

 

While I like the Skyline, I think all the exposure it gets in video games has overhyped it's actual performance. The 1000 HP skyline GTRs always mentioned are "tuner" models, kind of like what a Saleen or Roush is in the Mustang world.


Here are the road test specs for a '99 R34 GTR from Road and Track:

Horsepower 277 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Torque 293 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm

Acceleration

0-40 mph 2.7
0-60 mph 5.2
0-80 mph 8.7
0-100 mph 13.0

0-1320 ft (1/4 mile) 13.7 @ 103.5 mph

Braking

From 60 mph 120 ft
From 80 mph 204 ft

Handling

200 ft skidpad 0.89 g
700 ft slalom 60.8 mph

Fuel Economy

Normal Driving 22.8 mpg

Interior Noise

Idle in neutral 52 dBA
Maximum 1st gear 78 dBA
70 mph 76 dBA

More Skyline GTR Info here

Stock, the R34 GTR looks to turn the same quarter mile times as the '05 GT , about the same 0-60, brakes a little better, 0.02g better on the skid pad. They weigh about the same too (~3500 lbs).

 

If repair costs wouldn't be an issue I'd have to take the Skyline. Sorry guys, but those things are amazing.

Interesting thread though, I never thought about them as performance competitors before.

 

Hmmm...this is interesting. Never thought that Mustang fans would consider the Skyline as an equal. Still, the Mustang's a better choice in the long run, as importing a Skyline will run you at least $95,000, not to mention that insurance rates for it are astronomical.

 

skylines are cool, i think they are VERY nice cars. and being fast doesnt hurt either :P

but alas, the msutang has a special place in Arins heart, so its a 'stang for me.

 

Technically, the Skyline would be the best overall, barely.

Of course, bang for the buck, the Mustang

 

Why? In reality, a '05 Mustang GT is a close match performance wise to a stock R34 GTR.

................Skyline GTR R34.............'05 Mustang GT
1/4 mile....13.7...............................13.8
0-60.........5.2.................................5.2
skidpad.....0.89g.............................0.87 g
braking.....204 ft (80-0)..................183 ft (70-0)


Skylines are neat cars, but look at the road test results taken from Road & Track that I had pasted into my previous post. The Mustang does pretty good for ~$26K!

skyline spec page


Like I said before, the Skyline's performance has been hyped because of so much exposure in video games, and stories about 1000 HP tuner Skylines in the import car magazines. Is there a popular racing video game that doesn't have at least one Skyline in it? Doesn't GT4 have like 20 different tuner versions of the Skyline? This makes an impression on a lot of young people.

<!--QuoteBegin-areaseven@October 18, 2005, 5:03 PM
Still, the Mustang's a better choice in the long run, as importing a Skyline will run you at least $95,000, not to mention that insurance rates for it are astronomical.
[/quote]

Sure Skylines cost a lot to import to the US, but in Japan they aren't that rare or expensive. It costs a lot to convert them over to meet US specs. It would probably be very costly import a new Mustang to Japan as well...

Skylines are very cool cars, though.

 

Stock for stock, the Mustang is a much better buy becasue it is cheaper (even before importing fees).

But, once you start to modify, there is no contest. The GT-R wins hands down. AWD and TT is a wonderful thing. Watch how the Mine's car revs through the gears and accellearates out of the corners. Simply amazing.
http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?f...852BEC&kw=9&p=0

 

Wow...the Mine's car is a monster. But just imagine what the Z-Tune can do.

 

<!--QuoteBegin-areaseven@October 23, 2005, 11:37 PM
Wow...the Mine's car is a monster. But just imagine what the Z-Tune can do.

Quoted post

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If you want to talk about modified cars, compare those tuner R34s to the '05 Mustang FR500C...

Still cheaper than a $170,000 tuner R34 at $125,000 and a race proven winner

But for that price, might as well just get a Ford GT

 

Sorry, I would still take the Nissan Z-Tune v. the FR500C. The the R34 should walk all over it.

3 sec. 0-60.
10.1 sec. quarter mile.
For a street car with a full interior.
Not using slicks.

That is a full second faster than an Enzo .
1.3 sec. faster than an S7 (still 0.5 faster than the S7 TT).
1.5 seconds faster than a Ford GT.
etc......

Don't forget, the FR500C was designed to meet series specs, so it probably isn't as potent as it could be. Don't get me wrong, the FR500C is a great car, just not tuned to the max like the Z-tune, and not having an interior would make for a tough daily driver.

The problem once you start to get that much horespower is putting it down with only two wheels, and that is where AWD cars shine.

And as far as price, who knows how much a Mine's car would cost, but it proably won't be $170k to deliver similar performance (even has 100 more hp IIRC).

 

Yes the FR500C is tuned to match the race series specs, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be retuned differently. It's probably not tuned anywhere near it's maximum potential... And since we have already arrived in tuner car fantasyland, who says a full interior couldn't be installed in FR500C?

Quote:

Originally posted by Rampant@October 28, 2005, 10:38 PM
The problem once you start to get that much horespower is putting it down with only two wheels, and that is where AWD cars shine.

But Drag racing isn't AWD, neither is F1, and they don't seem to have any problems.
Come to think of it, very few high horsepower cars are AWD...

<!--QuoteBegin-Rampant@October 28, 2005, 10:38 PM
And as far as price, who knows how much a Mine's car would cost, but it proably won't be $170k to deliver similar performance (even has 100 more hp IIRC).

Quoted post

[/quote]
Ya know, when I first chimed in on this topic, I knew it would end up this way.... I mentioned how in reality, stock for stock, the '05-'06 Mustang GT is pretty near the equal of the last R34 GTR as shown in documented road tests.

I also mentioned that many people worship the R34 GTR based on the tuner cars shown in magazines and video games and how much influence these had on people.

Seeing how the stock '05-06 Mustang GT is pretty much the performance equal of a stock R34 GTR as shown in road test data, (which seems to be hard to accept for a lot of people) we have now entered the tuner car fantasyland of Gran Turismo 4!

 

That was exactly my point -- not the best example to bring up against a fully tuned R34. Unfortunatley, there aren't any better examples.

Fantasy Land? Those are numbers off an actual car. How is that fantasy land? And as far as a full interior in an FR500C -- have you seen the roll cage in that thing (part of what gives it such great handling)?

Umm, we are talking road cars on street tires here, not dedicated race machines. Also, have you ever seen a drag car take a turn?

Just watch a 600hp Cobra on street tires trying to get traction. Then watch a 600hp Skyline on the same tires trying to get traction -- then you will understand what I am talking about with AWD traction.

That is EXACTLY why I said the Mustang was the better STOCK car. And also why I differentiated modified versions. The Mustang is great for what it is, no doubt about that. But, it isn't the king of the road (not that the GT-R is either), and I certainly wouldn't call comparing real live cars fantasy land. Paper racing, definitely. But at least based off actual cars/numbers.

You show me a Mustang that can accelerate and turn like the Mine's car on sticky street tires and I am all over it. I just haven't seen it. But, there are several examples of R34 GT-Rs that can (MCR's car, HKS's car, etc.). And that is all I was trying to say.

 

We are now in tuner fantasyland. It's fantasyland in that most people on this forum are not going drop $170K+ on car that is 1 of 20 built like the Nismo Z-Tune R34 GTR , or call FRPP and order a FR500C. I know I can't. But In tuner fantasyland, we have unlimited amounts of money to buy and modify cars and anything goes.

A $26K Mustang GT is more in tune with reality, and hopefully when my '06 Mustang GT gets finally gets built and delivered, I'll move from fantasy to the reality of driving it...

Quote:

Originally posted by Rampant@October 31, 2005, 11:31 AM
Umm, we are talking road cars on street tires here, not dedicated race machines. Also, have you ever seen a drag car take a turn?

I don't remember street tires being one of the criteria at the beginning...
I was just showing two extreme examples of RWD competition, drag racing (straight line) and Formula 1 (road racing).

Quote:

Originally posted by Rampant@October 31, 2005, 11:31 AM
That is EXACTLY why I said the Mustang was the better STOCK car.
And also why I differentiated modified versions. The Mustang is great for what it is, no doubt about that.

But then why did you have to bring up the tuner versions of the R34? It's like you are peeved that the the lowly Mustang GT could match the stock R34 GTR, so had to "defend the honor" of the Skyline GTR and make it so the R34 would still come out on top.... Can't you just let us Mustang fans savor this one "victory"?

Quote:

Originally posted by Rampant@October 31, 2005, 11:31 AM
But, it isn't the king of the road (not that the GT-R is either), and I certainly wouldn't call comparing real live cars fantasy land. Paper racing, definitely. But at least based off actual cars/numbers.

I know the Mustang is the fastest car out there, but when a $26K mass produced domestic car can match a car that everyone says is a "legend" (at least to import fans), then that's something a little special, don't you think?
<!--QuoteBegin-Rampant@October 31, 2005, 11:31 AM
You show me a Mustang that can accelerate and turn like the Mine's car on sticky street tires and I am all over it. I just haven't seen it. But, there are several examples of R34 GT-Rs that can (MCR's car, HKS's car, etc.). And that is all I was trying to say.

Quoted post

[/quote]
How much are those Mine's cars anyway? About the same price as the Nismo Z-Tune? How many were built? Anythings possible with enough money... spend $100K on a Mustang GT and you'd probably have something pretty close.

This is all in fun... I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, just having a fun little debate... No hard feelings...

I'm a Nissan fan as well as a Mustang fan. I have a '71 240z that is currently a V8 swap project.

 

No worries, I love a good debate as well. Just trying to keep the discussions somewhat on the same page. All I was trying to say is stock for stock, Mustang = better. Absolutely. Relish in that victory all you want.

It was just that, for me, a poll like this for a "surperior car" is in its potential, not how it leaves the factory (well, with stock blocks and basically stock chassis config). And fully tuned, the GT-R is a much better all-around road car from the examples I have seen. Unfortunately, there aren't any really good fully tuned Mustangs around -- they are primarially drag cars instead of all-around performers. Tough to compare the two.

There is no denying the incredibe car the Mustang is for the price (which is pretty much why we are all here). But, I get a little annoyed when people mistake that for it being the best car ever and everything else sucks becuase it isn't a Mustang (not that you are). I was just trying to interject some facts/video of real cars to illustrate how fast tuned GT-R's can be.

I have no brand/nameplate loyalties -- I just love cars, and darn if the GT-R doesn't have incredible potential.

I hear you about the $170k bit, but you certainly don't have to put that much into a GT-R to make it killer. I am not sure how much the Mine's car would be to replicate -- they are a tuner and don't sell completed cars to my knowledge.

The R34 GT-R Z-tune is a run of only twenty cars hand built by the Nismo race team staff (SuperGT, et. al.), with cf pbody parts and all the race parts you can read about. So, the exclusivity and prestige factors certainly will add a big chunk of change to the bottom line. I would imagine you could replicate something pretty similar for FAR less money (well, at least performance-wise).

Your '71 V8 Z sounds like a fun project. What V8? Hopefully something relatively light so as not to upset the balance too much. Did you see the LS1 RX-7 in SCC's USCC? That sounds like a heck of a fun car.

(side note: I would love to see what a Mustang can do in that crowd at a USCC -- too bad Primedia is too chicken to put one in just in case it beat all their hallowed cars).

 

My 240Z's got a Mopar 318 small block and an aluminum A833OD 4speed.
I'm working on adapting the Z's hydraulic clutch system right now... It still needs the driveshaft set up and the exhaust system. It should be a fun ride- ~2400lbs with V8 torque You'd be suprised how much room there is in the engine bay of a Z... a lot more than in the Mopar A-bodies I've owned.

 

In case it hasn't been mentioned, the Skyline is not even available here. You have to buy in Japan and when it gets here its RHD...

I finally saw one two weeks ago in Ottawa. And I have to say I was very disappointed. This car stock looks wimpy in comparison to your standard 99-04 GT models. If you've ever taken a taxi in Mexico, chances are it was a Nissan Tsuru, which is a very similar 3rd world family sedan. Skyline looks the same. On import sites these Skylines coupes are heavily favoured and generally regarded as 'Japanese muscle'. Whatever that means.

I have to say, the Skyline models, by leaps and bounds, are the most overrated cars in the history of automobiles. They are on about 1 of 5 covers of import tuner magazine on a rotating basis. The models that are regarded as 'good' are all tarted up with fibreglass body panels and the whole effect looks so thrown together and cheap. Not only that, the body style has not been updated in forever (see taxi example). Otherwise imagine an early 90s Accord coupe.

They rely on the AWD 'Atessa' system for offline punch. In addition they have more engine swaps available than we have wheel/tire combos! Really, alot of the reputation is built on these heavily boosted engines, and I suspect 2 step turbos and other gadgetry. The cars that can kick serious hiney (700 rwhp) are extremely rare and usually race prepped, one offs owned by eccentric millionaires. The garden variety ones that are rolling around are much less vicious.

In conclusion, to call this car the japanese mustang is laughable. Its a rare specialy car and barely an exotic, even at the top flyte models. Spend the $150K on a beautiful Ferrari/Ford GT car. Had to rant cause I've been on a car video site lately (streetfire) and this is all they talk about. Bloody Skylines and Supras.

 

Not to disagree about the skyline being overrated (which they are), but they are a lot cheaper in japan than here. not sure exactly, but i believe it compares to about $40,000US.

And on streetfire you will find the dumbest "car guys" ever. They dont seem to get bored of childish domestic vs import arguments and they dont accept hard facts. Its always "...well my car could make 700hp too if it was a 5 liter" or "ya, but in hp per dollar my civic owns that vette." Or the infamous ricer argument... hp/liter. I dont even post on there anymore, the guys wont even accept hard facts, and they always turn to idiotic name calling and taunting when im sure most of them dont even have a car. or a drivers license. Sorry bout the rant, but those guys drive me crazy.

 

True. Hahahah...I go on there to bait people every day. Helps me to let off steam as the site is barely moderated. One guy said, "ah another domestic owner with an excuse about getting beaten by a honda"...after this one vid..

Its typical, cause the site is mostly import tuner guys posting kills of domestic cars, notably STOCK mustangs. For example, I'd say 1 of 9 vids you see with "cobra v supra" actually has the cobra winning. Stock Supras are about as powerful as a mach 1 or 2005 GT. No way they would beat a Cobra, but these are the only vids they post. Some dude with a 1000hp supra. Stupid.

Ironically the site has encoraged me to go and look at imports critcally, get some familiarity with the numbers/stats. So I have expanded my auto knowledge a bit.

I also love on that site how the 03-04 Cobra is the unacknowleged gold standard. Heh.