Autocross or Road Racing!
10/4/13, 03:31 PM
#22
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Lots of good advice. My only comment is I'm glad we have another Mustang guy interested in something other than drag racing. Drag racing is cool, just not my thing at all.
10/4/13, 07:38 PM
#23
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10/4/13, 08:55 PM
#24
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Well I knew what it was but I thought it was things some bored people put up in abandoned lots!
10/8/13, 06:19 PM
#25
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Hey hey Fudge! I'm glad you're considering getting into the hobby. There are few ways of experiencing what your car is capable of, and feeling one with your machine like road courses or auto-x. I work in vehicle dynamics, and my training started with Auto-x and moved on to road courses. I think that's a right order of doing things.
Auto-x forces the instincts of knowing then you're near the limit of adhesion, limit handling or the balancing act of controlled slip, and oversteer control in particular. All at lower speeds, which is safer. As speeds increase, those instincts are key, as your reaction times must shrink and amplitudes of your correction inputs (steering, throttle, brake) decrease, and become more smooth in order not to upset the balance of the car.
Either way, they are both fun. Start with whatever makes more sense financially, but you have to experience both to know which you prefer.
Auto-x forces the instincts of knowing then you're near the limit of adhesion, limit handling or the balancing act of controlled slip, and oversteer control in particular. All at lower speeds, which is safer. As speeds increase, those instincts are key, as your reaction times must shrink and amplitudes of your correction inputs (steering, throttle, brake) decrease, and become more smooth in order not to upset the balance of the car.
Either way, they are both fun. Start with whatever makes more sense financially, but you have to experience both to know which you prefer.
Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 10/8/13 at 06:23 PM.
10/9/13, 04:41 PM
#26
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I've only run autocross twice with mine - a total of 9 runs. Since the courses are typically no more than about 3/4 of a mile, and usually shorter than that, it will take some doing to wear heavily on your brake pads or boil the fluid. You are through the course in somewhere around a minute and sit for quite a few minutes between runs.
What class is your v6 14 Mustang in? I'll have a v6 as well with the 3.31 slip option (but not the full fledged performance package).
10/10/13, 02:02 AM
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Tell her it's safe, there are instructors, it teaches you to be a better driver on the streets and lastly ask her "wouldn't it be better to do it in a closed and controlled course with instructors rather than on the streets?"
10/10/13, 06:29 AM
#30
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10/10/13, 08:05 AM
#31
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I ran in Novice for a few events last year with my Honda S2000 and stayed in Novice for the two events I ran in my Mustang. As a Novice I could have an 'instructor' ride with me and coach me through the course - very helpful. Nobody else can ride with a Novice. In any of the other classes I could have someone ride with me.
BSCC has a morning session and an afternoon session. I prefer to run in the afternoon, because the track is an hour away. If I ran in a regular class it would be Medium Sedan (based on engine size), but they might run Medium Sedan in the morning. I plan to run in Time Only next year because they have TO runs both morning and afternoon - same as Novice. I don't care about competing for end of year trophies, so TO will work best for me.
10/26/13, 07:13 PM
#32
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My two cents...
I've been to 6 HPDE road course track days now. 2 at Lime Rock, 2 at Watkins Glen, and one each at Loudon NH and the Thunderbolt track at NJMP. I never did autocross, though I do have a couple friends who have done it.
Both are going to be fun and both will teach you to be a better driver. But you get MUCH more seat time in the road course events, plus depending on the track, you'll get to run on courses with nice elevation changes and much higher speeds overall. I hit 120 at Lime Rock and over 130 at Watkins Glen in a stock 2005 GT. At Watkins Glen we got 5 track sessions of 30 minutes each, so that's 2-1/2 hours on the track. I went through a tank and a half of gas! (of course you'll only average about 8 mpg.)
As far as safety, in the 6 events I went to, there wasn't a single incident in the Novice class. Everyone runs with an instructor in the passenger seat, and most people exercise common sense. It's the Intermediate group that has the most incidents from what I've seen, and even then, there were only 3 incidents total that caused any damage to the car (in the 6 events I went to). There were about 100 cars at each event. In our classroom sessions, the instructors told us that the reason the Intermediate run group tends to have more off-track incidents is that they're becoming more confident and pushing harder than the Novice group.
I'm not going to disparage autocross - like others have said, you can do it for $25 or so, and I have no doubt that it's great fun. I would like to try it myself for sure. But I think if you have a chance to run on a road course, you should do it, and not think that you have to take baby steps and do the autocross first. The HPDE events cater towards novices and common sense will likely keep you out of trouble.
I've been to 6 HPDE road course track days now. 2 at Lime Rock, 2 at Watkins Glen, and one each at Loudon NH and the Thunderbolt track at NJMP. I never did autocross, though I do have a couple friends who have done it.
Both are going to be fun and both will teach you to be a better driver. But you get MUCH more seat time in the road course events, plus depending on the track, you'll get to run on courses with nice elevation changes and much higher speeds overall. I hit 120 at Lime Rock and over 130 at Watkins Glen in a stock 2005 GT. At Watkins Glen we got 5 track sessions of 30 minutes each, so that's 2-1/2 hours on the track. I went through a tank and a half of gas! (of course you'll only average about 8 mpg.)
As far as safety, in the 6 events I went to, there wasn't a single incident in the Novice class. Everyone runs with an instructor in the passenger seat, and most people exercise common sense. It's the Intermediate group that has the most incidents from what I've seen, and even then, there were only 3 incidents total that caused any damage to the car (in the 6 events I went to). There were about 100 cars at each event. In our classroom sessions, the instructors told us that the reason the Intermediate run group tends to have more off-track incidents is that they're becoming more confident and pushing harder than the Novice group.
I'm not going to disparage autocross - like others have said, you can do it for $25 or so, and I have no doubt that it's great fun. I would like to try it myself for sure. But I think if you have a chance to run on a road course, you should do it, and not think that you have to take baby steps and do the autocross first. The HPDE events cater towards novices and common sense will likely keep you out of trouble.
10/26/13, 09:16 PM
#33
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Hey hey Fudge! I'm glad you're considering getting into the hobby. There are few ways of experiencing what your car is capable of, and feeling one with your machine like road courses or auto-x. I work in vehicle dynamics, and my training started with Auto-x and moved on to road courses. I think that's a right order of doing things.
Auto-x forces the instincts of knowing then you're near the limit of adhesion, limit handling or the balancing act of controlled slip, and oversteer control in particular. All at lower speeds, which is safer. As speeds increase, those instincts are key, as your reaction times must shrink and amplitudes of your correction inputs (steering, throttle, brake) decrease, and become more smooth in order not to upset the balance of the car.
Either way, they are both fun. Start with whatever makes more sense financially, but you have to experience both to know which you prefer.
Auto-x forces the instincts of knowing then you're near the limit of adhesion, limit handling or the balancing act of controlled slip, and oversteer control in particular. All at lower speeds, which is safer. As speeds increase, those instincts are key, as your reaction times must shrink and amplitudes of your correction inputs (steering, throttle, brake) decrease, and become more smooth in order not to upset the balance of the car.
Either way, they are both fun. Start with whatever makes more sense financially, but you have to experience both to know which you prefer.
My two cents...
I've been to 6 HPDE road course track days now. 2 at Lime Rock, 2 at Watkins Glen, and one each at Loudon NH and the Thunderbolt track at NJMP. I never did autocross, though I do have a couple friends who have done it.
Both are going to be fun and both will teach you to be a better driver. But you get MUCH more seat time in the road course events, plus depending on the track, you'll get to run on courses with nice elevation changes and much higher speeds overall. I hit 120 at Lime Rock and over 130 at Watkins Glen in a stock 2005 GT. At Watkins Glen we got 5 track sessions of 30 minutes each, so that's 2-1/2 hours on the track. I went through a tank and a half of gas! (of course you'll only average about 8 mpg.)
As far as safety, in the 6 events I went to, there wasn't a single incident in the Novice class. Everyone runs with an instructor in the passenger seat, and most people exercise common sense. It's the Intermediate group that has the most incidents from what I've seen, and even then, there were only 3 incidents total that caused any damage to the car (in the 6 events I went to). There were about 100 cars at each event. In our classroom sessions, the instructors told us that the reason the Intermediate run group tends to have more off-track incidents is that they're becoming more confident and pushing harder than the Novice group.
I'm not going to disparage autocross - like others have said, you can do it for $25 or so, and I have no doubt that it's great fun. I would like to try it myself for sure. But I think if you have a chance to run on a road course, you should do it, and not think that you have to take baby steps and do the autocross first. The HPDE events cater towards novices and common sense will likely keep you out of trouble.
I've been to 6 HPDE road course track days now. 2 at Lime Rock, 2 at Watkins Glen, and one each at Loudon NH and the Thunderbolt track at NJMP. I never did autocross, though I do have a couple friends who have done it.
Both are going to be fun and both will teach you to be a better driver. But you get MUCH more seat time in the road course events, plus depending on the track, you'll get to run on courses with nice elevation changes and much higher speeds overall. I hit 120 at Lime Rock and over 130 at Watkins Glen in a stock 2005 GT. At Watkins Glen we got 5 track sessions of 30 minutes each, so that's 2-1/2 hours on the track. I went through a tank and a half of gas! (of course you'll only average about 8 mpg.)
As far as safety, in the 6 events I went to, there wasn't a single incident in the Novice class. Everyone runs with an instructor in the passenger seat, and most people exercise common sense. It's the Intermediate group that has the most incidents from what I've seen, and even then, there were only 3 incidents total that caused any damage to the car (in the 6 events I went to). There were about 100 cars at each event. In our classroom sessions, the instructors told us that the reason the Intermediate run group tends to have more off-track incidents is that they're becoming more confident and pushing harder than the Novice group.
I'm not going to disparage autocross - like others have said, you can do it for $25 or so, and I have no doubt that it's great fun. I would like to try it myself for sure. But I think if you have a chance to run on a road course, you should do it, and not think that you have to take baby steps and do the autocross first. The HPDE events cater towards novices and common sense will likely keep you out of trouble.
10/28/13, 08:23 AM
#34
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I do have to say from my LITTLE experience track driving was much more fun, auto cross was more challanging, but then again we didn't get close the the limit on the road track of those SRT8s!!
I've considered trying a little of both next year! how much does the average track day cost on a track? I'm not counting tires brakes fuel etc because the closest track to me is 2 hours away, so if it ALOT of money I might just stick to drag racing for now, and dabble in autocross......
I've considered trying a little of both next year! how much does the average track day cost on a track? I'm not counting tires brakes fuel etc because the closest track to me is 2 hours away, so if it ALOT of money I might just stick to drag racing for now, and dabble in autocross......
In autocross you'll get 6-10 runs which are about a minute each. So a total of 6 to 10 minutes of track time. In HPDE events, particularly the 2 day ones you'll get 3-4 HOURS of track time. Much better experience for the money, and you have plenty of time to learn and practice.
Track days are expensive, there is no denying that. A full weekend (with brake pads, hotel, insurance, event fee etc.) will be ~$1000. But your pads will last for 3-4 events, so after the initial "buy in cost" it gets a little cheaper.
Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 10/28/13 at 08:30 AM.
10/28/13, 10:17 AM
#35
Currently a Corvette Owner!
My two cents...
I've been to 6 HPDE road course track days now. 2 at Lime Rock, 2 at Watkins Glen, and one each at Loudon NH and the Thunderbolt track at NJMP. I never did autocross, though I do have a couple friends who have done it.
Both are going to be fun and both will teach you to be a better driver. But you get MUCH more seat time in the road course events, plus depending on the track, you'll get to run on courses with nice elevation changes and much higher speeds overall. I hit 120 at Lime Rock and over 130 at Watkins Glen in a stock 2005 GT. At Watkins Glen we got 5 track sessions of 30 minutes each, so that's 2-1/2 hours on the track. I went through a tank and a half of gas! (of course you'll only average about 8 mpg.)
I've been to 6 HPDE road course track days now. 2 at Lime Rock, 2 at Watkins Glen, and one each at Loudon NH and the Thunderbolt track at NJMP. I never did autocross, though I do have a couple friends who have done it.
Both are going to be fun and both will teach you to be a better driver. But you get MUCH more seat time in the road course events, plus depending on the track, you'll get to run on courses with nice elevation changes and much higher speeds overall. I hit 120 at Lime Rock and over 130 at Watkins Glen in a stock 2005 GT. At Watkins Glen we got 5 track sessions of 30 minutes each, so that's 2-1/2 hours on the track. I went through a tank and a half of gas! (of course you'll only average about 8 mpg.)
+1
I participate in about 4 track events a year, and they are amazingly fun. Plus many offer a Driver's Ed program for beginners, to help you get to learn the limits of your car, and learn the track. You will not regret it!
10/28/13, 08:14 PM
#36
Legacy TMS Member
I'm not going to disparage autocross - like others have said, you can do it for $25 or so, and I have no doubt that it's great fun. I would like to try it myself for sure. But I think if you have a chance to run on a road course, you should do it, and not think that you have to take baby steps and do the autocross first. The HPDE events cater towards novices and common sense will likely keep you out of trouble.
The big difference in jumping up to HPDE, at least from one what I have experienced with those with whom I've rode on tracks, is the how comfortable you feel if the car slips (or spins, if you really lose it). If that is more entertaining than frightening, than an HPDE is probably the way to go. As mentioned, you get more practice time there than an autocross because of the logistics of how it's run.
I am cheap and my self-preservation instinct is pretty high
Autocross, therefore, was a good way to build up my understanding in a more measured way.Either event will make a difference in your understanding of handling dynamics for sure!
10/28/13, 08:49 PM
#38
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Best thing you can do is get better pads. I have had great experience with Carbotech XP10s for my front pads. I left the back stock. Worked great. The front pads were heat resistant to 1650 F, but I don't think I got much over 1100F.
Those are full race pads though. Some people will run Hawk HP Plus and use them on the track, and as a daily driver. That may work if you brake early. But if you drop the hammer from 120mph later in the brake zone, you need a race pad to handle the heat. Again, depends on what you want to do.
I have the Brembo brakes on mine, and changing pads is easy. I hammer out 2 pins, and the pads come out nice and easy. I don't even remove the calipers. So I like to swap to race pads before hand, so I know I can count on my brakes to be there no matter what. Some people prefer to do it once, and deal with a bit of squick and corrosive dust, but not change pads too often. My otherwise stock setup (except for pads) can handle 30 minute track sessions with no fade, or squishy pedal feel.
My advice is to swap pads at the very least. That way you know your brakes are there when you need them most.
10/29/13, 06:25 AM
#39
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The reason I ask is because my actors rotors SUCK these things after going through some twists the other night and other spirited driving with a few buddies I had to slam on the brakes and they hammer like crazy.
I'm just not sure if it I just brake wrong and warp them or if it just the brake system (I did not go with the brembo option..... Now wishing I did but too late unless I go aftermarket) that's why I asked about rotors as well. Might have to just with a better set of rotors just not drilled and it slotted then.
I'm just not sure if it I just brake wrong and warp them or if it just the brake system (I did not go with the brembo option..... Now wishing I did but too late unless I go aftermarket) that's why I asked about rotors as well. Might have to just with a better set of rotors just not drilled and it slotted then.
10/29/13, 09:34 AM
#40
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The reason I ask is because my actors rotors SUCK these things after going through some twists the other night and other spirited driving with a few buddies I had to slam on the brakes and they hammer like crazy. I'm just not sure if it I just brake wrong and warp them or if it just the brake system (I did not go with the brembo option..... Now wishing I did but too late unless I go aftermarket) that's why I asked about rotors as well. Might have to just with a better set of rotors just not drilled and it slotted then.