Silver Horse Racing knocks off JLT Separators now
7/25/13, 08:49 AM
#1
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
Silver Horse Racing knocks off JLT Separators now
We all heard the crying when other companies copied SHR's designs for door handles, fuse box covers and fuel doors, well I guess they feel if you can't beat'em join'em.
See how exact their Oil Separator is to the JLT
See how exact their Oil Separator is to the JLT
Last edited by Tucker; 7/25/13 at 08:50 AM.
7/25/13, 10:03 AM
#2
Mach 1 Member
I respect this kind of media, we know life is not fair and people will steal and use other good designs for their personal gain, that's just facts of life.
Is the product created by the same OEM manufacturer that creates the separators for JLT, or does JLT make their own in house?
Is the product created by the same OEM manufacturer that creates the separators for JLT, or does JLT make their own in house?
7/25/13, 06:55 PM
#4
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I'm curious of this as well. Are yours made in-house, or outsourced?
7/25/13, 10:07 PM
#5
We are the manufacturer for Shelby, as well as for some other companies in the Mustang aftermarket. We do not produce products for JLT, although the offer was on the table at one time to Jay, who is the owner (the JT, in JLT).
The design of the Shelby piece, as well as our production piece is different than the JLT piece in many ways. to briefly recap:
We have been accused of stealing things like "proprietary threads" when in reality it is a 1-3/4 x 12 pitch in question, a normal thread for a 1-3/4" diameter part. We could just as easily used a 6,8,10,13,16,24, or 32 pitch. Since Jay doesn't know why the threads are what they are, he argues that they are proprietary, stating his machinist made them special just for JLT. WE on the other hand used them because they can be made using the same threading insert we use for other parts we make for another customer in an unrelated industry, but it's really details that bore most people, so we don't go into them too much.
Our designs also incorporate 90 degree heads that do not require 90 degree plastic fittings (like the JLT pieces), our design is lighter than their piece due to better material removal in the can and head, requires no "filter" to function (JLT's piece uses a motorcraft steel mesh insert that was OE on the old 5.0 engine and is available through any auto parts store), as our airflow was modeled using the latest in flow design software to avoid needing a "slow down" baffle. The design was also tested in the real world for over 20,000 miles to back up our theoretical data, instead of doing skewed video tests that are basically pumping liquid oil into the separator. These are all facts that were brought up on the Shelby forum since they were the first ones to be released that we produce, and the first place we were publicly attacked by Jay.
Our production pieces are also visually different than the JLT/ Shelby piece. Anyone who has seen our car in the past 1.5 years has seen our production piece, including Jay himself, whether they realized it or not. The Shelby piece is made to their specifications, therefore we do not control the visual appearance of their part, just how it functions. In reality however, most oil separators on the market today are cylinders with a cap, and have been for over 40 years, but that fact is glossed over repeatedly by JLT up until this latest video where now it is a size issue that is his newest problem.
In the end Jay is upset that Shelby came to us as a contract manufacturer to handle production of their piece for them, like we do for many of their products. His continued insults (calling us "scum!" publicly on Facebook) and rants are all important reasons in other company's decision-making processes, we are sure, and why we continue to gain market share in this segment.
The piece shown in the video was one we made specifically for JLT, because this fight already went on for a while already back in ~April in the Shelby forum. We knew that they would be at our booth at some point during Mustang Week in July, hence why we made a "special" piece just for them to let them think they were being sneaky when sending a straw purchaser over to our booth on late Saturday to purchase one of our new units. We watched the piece walk back over to the JLT booth after "digging it out" of our trailer - because the production piece on our table was ignored by the buyer! The buyer was checking over his shoulder to see if we were watching as he left - we were. He was wearing a white golf cap and a red shirt, not that we noticed...
In hindsight, we probably should not have thrown gas on the fire in this manner since he was already upset and instead sent a production piece to him, but at the time it sounded like a good idea since we had already been the brunt of a lot of anger from Jay and had pretty much taken it just as a part of business. It probably wouldn't have mattered though, since he has publicly berated our production piece that is different than his previously in other forums as being a "bedazzled" version of his.
In the meantime though, if we were going to be accused of knocking off a part exactly, we decided to have some fun with it and show him how we could do it if we wanted to, just we choose not to. The video they took time to create and edit is the result you see with the piece in question.
JLT will argue that they sell "thousands" of these and that it doesn't matter how "few" we sell. The truth is that JLT has put a lot of time and effort into trying to make SHR look bad, and in this case, they went for the bait we put out, plain and simple. The fact that they have this much time on their hands to continue to insult our business publicly speaks to Jay's (the owner) free time. For a company that is so busy, Jay sure finds a lot of time to post, repost, and continue to post the same things over and over. On the other hand, we already publicly ended our discussion in the Shelby thread, and from here on out, we'll probably just cut and paste this response into wherever Jay feels he needs to vent, along with a link to the original TS thread.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of "dirty laundry" in the background that has brought our two companies to this point, when at one point we were doing business together. It is sad that it has come to this, but a reality we have faced. While it might be fun to watch as a spectator in a public forum, the truth is that not much of it really belongs here. Jay is welcome to continue on with his insults, but most of what we had to say in public was already said in the TS forum (30+ pages if you have some free time), and rehashing it here for Jay's pleasure is just not going to happen.
The design of the Shelby piece, as well as our production piece is different than the JLT piece in many ways. to briefly recap:
We have been accused of stealing things like "proprietary threads" when in reality it is a 1-3/4 x 12 pitch in question, a normal thread for a 1-3/4" diameter part. We could just as easily used a 6,8,10,13,16,24, or 32 pitch. Since Jay doesn't know why the threads are what they are, he argues that they are proprietary, stating his machinist made them special just for JLT. WE on the other hand used them because they can be made using the same threading insert we use for other parts we make for another customer in an unrelated industry, but it's really details that bore most people, so we don't go into them too much.
Our designs also incorporate 90 degree heads that do not require 90 degree plastic fittings (like the JLT pieces), our design is lighter than their piece due to better material removal in the can and head, requires no "filter" to function (JLT's piece uses a motorcraft steel mesh insert that was OE on the old 5.0 engine and is available through any auto parts store), as our airflow was modeled using the latest in flow design software to avoid needing a "slow down" baffle. The design was also tested in the real world for over 20,000 miles to back up our theoretical data, instead of doing skewed video tests that are basically pumping liquid oil into the separator. These are all facts that were brought up on the Shelby forum since they were the first ones to be released that we produce, and the first place we were publicly attacked by Jay.
Our production pieces are also visually different than the JLT/ Shelby piece. Anyone who has seen our car in the past 1.5 years has seen our production piece, including Jay himself, whether they realized it or not. The Shelby piece is made to their specifications, therefore we do not control the visual appearance of their part, just how it functions. In reality however, most oil separators on the market today are cylinders with a cap, and have been for over 40 years, but that fact is glossed over repeatedly by JLT up until this latest video where now it is a size issue that is his newest problem.
In the end Jay is upset that Shelby came to us as a contract manufacturer to handle production of their piece for them, like we do for many of their products. His continued insults (calling us "scum!" publicly on Facebook) and rants are all important reasons in other company's decision-making processes, we are sure, and why we continue to gain market share in this segment.
The piece shown in the video was one we made specifically for JLT, because this fight already went on for a while already back in ~April in the Shelby forum. We knew that they would be at our booth at some point during Mustang Week in July, hence why we made a "special" piece just for them to let them think they were being sneaky when sending a straw purchaser over to our booth on late Saturday to purchase one of our new units. We watched the piece walk back over to the JLT booth after "digging it out" of our trailer - because the production piece on our table was ignored by the buyer! The buyer was checking over his shoulder to see if we were watching as he left - we were. He was wearing a white golf cap and a red shirt, not that we noticed...
In hindsight, we probably should not have thrown gas on the fire in this manner since he was already upset and instead sent a production piece to him, but at the time it sounded like a good idea since we had already been the brunt of a lot of anger from Jay and had pretty much taken it just as a part of business. It probably wouldn't have mattered though, since he has publicly berated our production piece that is different than his previously in other forums as being a "bedazzled" version of his.
In the meantime though, if we were going to be accused of knocking off a part exactly, we decided to have some fun with it and show him how we could do it if we wanted to, just we choose not to. The video they took time to create and edit is the result you see with the piece in question.
JLT will argue that they sell "thousands" of these and that it doesn't matter how "few" we sell. The truth is that JLT has put a lot of time and effort into trying to make SHR look bad, and in this case, they went for the bait we put out, plain and simple. The fact that they have this much time on their hands to continue to insult our business publicly speaks to Jay's (the owner) free time. For a company that is so busy, Jay sure finds a lot of time to post, repost, and continue to post the same things over and over. On the other hand, we already publicly ended our discussion in the Shelby thread, and from here on out, we'll probably just cut and paste this response into wherever Jay feels he needs to vent, along with a link to the original TS thread.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of "dirty laundry" in the background that has brought our two companies to this point, when at one point we were doing business together. It is sad that it has come to this, but a reality we have faced. While it might be fun to watch as a spectator in a public forum, the truth is that not much of it really belongs here. Jay is welcome to continue on with his insults, but most of what we had to say in public was already said in the TS forum (30+ pages if you have some free time), and rehashing it here for Jay's pleasure is just not going to happen.
7/26/13, 01:14 AM
#7
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Oil & water seps have been around for most of the industrial age. For JLT to make a big deal over this is STUPID. He should spend his time fixing his restrictive flow rate rather than childish crap like this. 
I won't be buying anything from JLT.
I won't be buying anything from JLT.
7/26/13, 05:57 AM
#8
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
I can see some didn't watch the video and just typing to have fun.
We will not roll over when copied, we will out the scum for all to see. Then you make the choice.
Saying you gave my guy the closest to mine is just stupid and wrong. If you were smart you would give him the one that looks the least like mine.
Also, what got me to do it was a customer came by the booth asking why we had a filter in ours. I explained and he pulled out yours,
It was your full on "bedazzeled" JLT, dressed up on the out side, but all JLT on the inside. Lucky for me the guys from Metco (who makes our for us) were in the booth at the same time. We showed your customer how it was the same, the filter fit and the caps were interchangable. He walked away in discust.
Your a fraud and a weak innovator. This part is easily modified and made different just like I show in the video. Only 3 look alike, ours, Shelbys and yours. Ours came first.
If I were making a new separator I would do so many things different. The fact that you copied some flaws is just funny.
Something you used to say about people who copied your door handles: "LOL, they even copied my mistake"
You know as well as I and tons of others you did this and it will hurt you. You should have done something different, it would have been easier on you.
You should be so proud for knocking off our product. Something to really teach the kid about. Can't beat'em, join'em boy
As for the threads, call Metco and ask them about it. Our threads are custom and yours are the same, hmmm
You can't get around facts Marcello, this didn't "just happen"
Oh and something I didn't mention in the video.
Dude, can't you make fittings that fit?
Your fittings don't fit the hose, they are way too loose and they don't thread all the way in flush.
I guess you didn't have our fittings to copy??
Saying you offered to make them for me has nothing to do with this, but let's talk about that.
Your mad I never gave you work? Poor baby.
I have honor and respect.
I have Metco make all our aluminum products and that's it, end of story. I've had many offers to use other shops, but I'm loyal.
So don't mislead the public like your the saint and offered to work together.
I've bought, stocked and tried to sell your billet crap for years, still have door handles in stock I can't give away.
Your a joke Marcello and I will make it clear to everyone what you did.
Yes, we do sell thousands, just doubled production 2 months ago as a matter of fact, but this is fun. Outing copy cats to the public it fun.
More fun facts,
5 "Brands" of separators here and 3 are different- UPR, Bob's and JLT, but 3 are the same over all shape and design - JLT, Shelby and SHR Hmmm that's innovation right there my friends. THINK FOR YOURSELF Marcello, don't copy product!!
LOL
We will not roll over when copied, we will out the scum for all to see. Then you make the choice.
Saying you gave my guy the closest to mine is just stupid and wrong. If you were smart you would give him the one that looks the least like mine.
Also, what got me to do it was a customer came by the booth asking why we had a filter in ours. I explained and he pulled out yours,
It was your full on "bedazzeled" JLT, dressed up on the out side, but all JLT on the inside. Lucky for me the guys from Metco (who makes our for us) were in the booth at the same time. We showed your customer how it was the same, the filter fit and the caps were interchangable. He walked away in discust.
Your a fraud and a weak innovator. This part is easily modified and made different just like I show in the video. Only 3 look alike, ours, Shelbys and yours. Ours came first.
If I were making a new separator I would do so many things different. The fact that you copied some flaws is just funny.
Something you used to say about people who copied your door handles: "LOL, they even copied my mistake"
You know as well as I and tons of others you did this and it will hurt you. You should have done something different, it would have been easier on you.
You should be so proud for knocking off our product. Something to really teach the kid about. Can't beat'em, join'em boy
As for the threads, call Metco and ask them about it. Our threads are custom and yours are the same, hmmm
You can't get around facts Marcello, this didn't "just happen"
Oh and something I didn't mention in the video.
Dude, can't you make fittings that fit?
Your fittings don't fit the hose, they are way too loose and they don't thread all the way in flush.
I guess you didn't have our fittings to copy??
Saying you offered to make them for me has nothing to do with this, but let's talk about that.
Your mad I never gave you work? Poor baby.
I have honor and respect.
I have Metco make all our aluminum products and that's it, end of story. I've had many offers to use other shops, but I'm loyal.
So don't mislead the public like your the saint and offered to work together.
I've bought, stocked and tried to sell your billet crap for years, still have door handles in stock I can't give away.
Your a joke Marcello and I will make it clear to everyone what you did.
Yes, we do sell thousands, just doubled production 2 months ago as a matter of fact, but this is fun. Outing copy cats to the public it fun.
More fun facts,
5 "Brands" of separators here and 3 are different- UPR, Bob's and JLT, but 3 are the same over all shape and design - JLT, Shelby and SHR Hmmm that's innovation right there my friends. THINK FOR YOURSELF Marcello, don't copy product!!
LOL
Last edited by Tucker; 7/26/13 at 06:41 AM.
7/26/13, 08:07 AM
#9
Shelby GT350 Member
Join Date: February 1, 2004
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Seriously? You only got 4 responses, and 2 of them were completely on your side. I simply asked a few questions, which you flat out ignored...but luckily SHR has a good rep that actually answered some questions.
Based on what I've seen here, I choose SHR. You have a lot to learn about customer service...like when to shut your mouth. This thread isn't doing any good for *you* either...
"Proprietary" threads?...really? They're threads...
Well since you're giving them away...I'll take them.
They're threads...Well since you're giving them away...I'll take them.
7/26/13, 08:23 AM
#10
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
Shutting my mouth does no good for anyone but the copyer
I beg to differ, this is a SHR forum and I have no issue saying my peace in the lions den. some may speak up against me outing him due to loyality, but more sit back, see the proof and shake their head.
Oh and yes, the threads are not a set thread you can find anywhere, but they are interchangable, hmmm
No worries about looking bad, I stand tall and sleep well at night knowing my company doesnt take the easy road and copy product.
Thanks
Jay
I beg to differ, this is a SHR forum and I have no issue saying my peace in the lions den. some may speak up against me outing him due to loyality, but more sit back, see the proof and shake their head.
Oh and yes, the threads are not a set thread you can find anywhere, but they are interchangable, hmmm
No worries about looking bad, I stand tall and sleep well at night knowing my company doesnt take the easy road and copy product.
Thanks
Jay
7/26/13, 09:18 AM
#11
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
There's actually something called a "poor mans copyright" and it is a simple way to protect yourself and your designs. This is crucial if you do not have patent.
You take all of your detailed designs and info and stuff them in an envelope. You then mail several packets to your home address.
The "postmark" serves as a time stamp for your design and is admissible in a copyright suite. Of course, the letter being sealed, provides further proof that the date is accurate. (Always leave one sealed so you can open it up in court.)
Just a suggestion for anyone who has a design they want to protect and can't afford the patent.
Sadly, once your design is out, it becomes public property somewhat if not protected. It's there for people to imitate and springboard off of... And they will.
You take all of your detailed designs and info and stuff them in an envelope. You then mail several packets to your home address.
The "postmark" serves as a time stamp for your design and is admissible in a copyright suite. Of course, the letter being sealed, provides further proof that the date is accurate. (Always leave one sealed so you can open it up in court.)
Just a suggestion for anyone who has a design they want to protect and can't afford the patent.
Sadly, once your design is out, it becomes public property somewhat if not protected. It's there for people to imitate and springboard off of... And they will.
7/26/13, 09:23 AM
#12
I am closing this thread. Im not going to let two companies (advertisers or not) start up what ultimately (if left unchecked) would become a bicker fest between companies and members. Ive seen it before and it does no good.
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