The Lyin' King

THE BLACK BOX

What if . . . . .

You were running your "modded" rig . . . . .around 95, rockin-in-a rollin in over-drive . . . . and all of a sudden you found yourself at the scene of an accident . . . . and you were it?

The HIGHWAY patrol checks the BB and determines that there's a MODDED tune in the puter, they relay same to UR Insurance Company . . . . who promptly cancels your coverage?

mister_e

Ummm, so did this happen or is it a hypothetical question?

one2gamble

not going to happen

snkbtn99

What gamble said ... Now if you wind up injurying someone else, the BB could play into the equation .... If I were the one being injured, I would ask for the documentation.

What mods you have doesn't mean jack poo when there is an accident ...

You think they look at the mods on a Honda when they are involved in an accident .... Highly unlikely ...

Webba

They are installing block boxes in these now? I had heard talk of it but didnt realize it was so. I know rental companies are doing that but in your own car???

KansasCityTim

Insurance is not the same as a warranty. It can't be voided by modifications, unless I would think if it is specifically in your policy, which I would highly doubt.

78Mach1

I thought there were only black boxes in commercial airliners. My 78 Mustang II Mach1 has a black box, its full of 8-track tapes for the stock quadrasonic 8-track tape player.

Fordracing200

ha ha LMAO

Putawaywet

They've been in our cars for several years... we just haven't heard about it until recently.

From what I have been able to read the law regarding these things is so vague that there really isn't a clear definition on what the data can and can't be used for. many times it is handled on a case by case basis. Many agencies aren't even giving them a thought and those that are are generally only obtaining them via court order to ensure all their legal bases are covered so the evidence doesn't wind up being thrown out. I'm not sure about other parts of the country but in these parts you must show just cause to obtain a court order. Random curiosity doesn't cut it.

As for the insurance, they pay regardless as long as your policy/premiums are up to date. They could no more legally refuse to pay if you were found at fault for speeding as they could if you pulled out in fornt of another driver. However, they could easily drop or cancel you immediately after the claim was settled leaving you without future insurance.

I have heard of one insurer giving big discounts to drivers who agree to allow them to install their own "black box" to monitor your driving habbits. Personally, I can't see that being a benefit to anyone but them because who here doesn't driver over the speed limit a half dozen times a day. Well, maybe it would benefit my grandmother - she's 85 and still drives occasionally.

As to what happens in the future is anybody's guess. Big brother seems to be doing everything in their power to chip away at our privacy rights each and every day. There very well could come a time where the above scenario could become a reality. But at least for now it appears we're still in a big gray area where one good legislation could push us either way.

blackhat

Here's the scoop on it from the owner's manual: Page 6 of the Introduction section.

EVENT DATA RECORDING

Other modules in your vehicle - event data recorders - are capable of collecting and storing data during a crash or near crash event. The recorded information may assist in the investigation of such an event. The modules may record information about both the vehicle and the occupants, potentially including information such as:

: how various systems in your vehicle were operating;

: whether or not the driver and passenger seatbelts were buckled;

: how far (if at all) the driver was depressing the accelerator and/or the brake pedal;

: how fast the vehicle was traveling; and

: where the driver was positioning the steering wheel.

To access this information, special equipment must be directly connected to the recording modules. Ford Motor Company and Ford of Canada do not access event data recorder information without obtaining consent, unless pursuant to court order or where required by law enforcement, other government authorities or other third parties acting with lawful authority. Other parties may seek to access the information independently of Ford Motor Company and Ford of Canada.

Dan

My State Farm agent said you had to notify them of any modifications done to the "engine" of the car (ie. power output).

I'm sure they'd find a reason to deny coverage.....you were an increased risk. Plus, the car is rated partly on how much hp is has I believe (its class). Another part is statistical.

Computer retune might be a problem..... Exhaust, suspension, intake (without tune) is probably okay. Though, I don't really know I'm just speculating.

The Lyin' King

Thanks for the input! This was a total “what if� deal . . . . . .

I guess my whole point is this . . . . . if they have access to the data . . . what’s to stop them from using it?

Ultimately, IMO . . . . it would be clean if . . . the after market tuning system would reset the computer to factory defaults upon air bag deployment or some other serious event.

BlackMustangGT07

Actually the reason your State Farm agent told you this is for your benefit, not theirs. Insurance companies do not have to pay for any modifications damaged during an accident, only the car itself(and maybe if your lucky, some items inside the car). For example, if you had out the side exhausts (like the 70's Vettes) put on your Mustang and someone hit your car, completely destroying one of the pipes, but not even scraping the actual car, the insurance will say "tough luck." Actually, a more realistic example is someone stealing an undeclared aftermarket head-unit(stereo).

Edit: Forgot some stuff(its late ) They will most likely only pay partially for the aftermarket things that are stolen/damaged due to depreciation. And as for the Black boxes, my neighbor, a mechanical engineer, has been recently working with them. Auto manufacturers have actually been protecting our privacy- just recently have they offered the tools to decode these boxes to the public(and only certain companies are doing so). Their main purpose was to show whether someone died/was injured due to recklessness or a mechanical malfunction ONLY when the car manufacturer was in danger of being sued. Now that the public has access to some of the decoders...we shall see what happens...

05YellowGT

Actually the reason your State Farm agent told you this is for your benefit, not theirs. Insurance companies do not have to pay for any modifications damaged during an accident, only the car itself(and maybe if your lucky, some items inside the car). For example, if you had out the side exhausts (like the 70's Vettes) put on your Mustang and someone hit your car, completely destroying one of the pipes, but not even scraping the actual car, the insurance will say "tough luck." Actually, a more realistic example is someone stealing an undeclared aftermarket head-unit(stereo).

Edit: Forgot some stuff(its late ) They will most likely only pay partially for the aftermarket things that are stolen/damaged due to depreciation. And as for the Black boxes, my neighbor, a mechanical engineer, has been recently working with them. Auto manufacturers have actually been protecting our privacy- just recently have they offered the tools to decode these boxes to the public(and only certain companies are doing so). Their main purpose was to show whether someone died/was injured due to recklessness or a mechanical malfunction ONLY when the car manufacturer was in danger of being sued. Now that the public has access to some of the decoders...we shall see what happens...
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My last mustang was stolen in 1995 and I had State Farm then and still do. It was a 1990 GT with what Steeda at the time called their street strip package and G-Trac suspension. The car was found with a lot of the parts stripped and other damage. State Farm paid for all the damage and lost parts and even allowed Steeda to do the repairs for me. I don't know if that has changed since then or not , and hopefully I won't find out with my 05 ...

hatchttu

My last mustang was stolen in 1995 and I had State Farm then and still do. It was a 1990 GT with what Steeda at the time called their street strip package and G-Trac suspension. The car was found with a lot of the parts stripped and other damage. State Farm paid for all the damage and lost parts and even allowed Steeda to do the repairs for me. I don't know if that has changed since then or not , and hopefully I won't find out with my 05 ...
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State Farm is really good to use in my opinion, I had my car heavily vandalized and the said no problem, here are some good places to have the work done(if the shop is in the State Farm network they paid HUGE money to be their).
My dad also had them before retiring and they told him he was covered no worries for the 2 day drive from kentucky to houston with his newly purchased 1968 Charger even though it wasnt technically on the policy yet. I am VERY pleased with them, plus noone has beat teir rates for me.

rhumb

I'm pretty sure that many late model GM ECUs now record a fair amount of black box type data that can potentially be retrieved. Perhaps a clevel tuner will code so that the data will reset if an airbag goes off or something ;-)

As for big HP = big risk, I just read of an Insurance Study that indicated just the opposite, that the higher the hp, the LOWER the accident rate. Seems performance car drivers are actually a much more skilled, active and aware driver than the somnulent proles droning along half asleep in their 50-horse econoboxes. This trend applied well beyond even the 300hp level. Repair costs were, however, a bit higher per accident, but that was probably because the big-horse cars tended to be more expensive and complex in the first place.

BlackMustangGT07

Haha, now only if they'd lower our rates...

The Lyin' King

Amen to that study/logic!!!!!!

The Lyin' King

Now there's a State Senator asking similar questions. I just ran across this . . . . .

States debate privacy safeguards on vehicle black boxes

By James Warden / Associated Press

BISMARCK, N.D. -- Raymon Holmberg didn't know his new sedan came equipped with the long arm of the law. The dealer hadn't bothered to mention the "black box," a computer chip that stores information on speed and seat belt use.

"When I bought my car," he said, "I didn't realize I was also buying a highway patrolman to sit in the back seat."

Holmberg, a state senator, believes his privacy was violated and is taking aim at black boxes.

Here's a link to the whole thread . . . . . .

http://www.blueovalforums.com/index.php?sh...=0&#entry211058

bobo7m3

The "black boxes" in vehicles have been around for some time (earliest being some GM cars in 1994). Ford started putting them in vehicles in 2001.

I don't know about other states but in Texas police officers have to have a warrant to retrieve the black box to download the information (or you could give them consent to remove it without a warrant).
I would assume it is the same in most states because you have to remove different parts of the interior of the vehicle to retrieve the box.

The box actually works off of the airbag sensors and will show data at the point of impact (which activated the airbag switch) and up to 5 seconds prior to impact. It is actually a very impressive report as it tells what the engine RPM was, speed of vehicle, seatbelt info, percentage of acceleration and percentage of braking. The main purpose is for airbag studies.

You have to have a special retrieval system to download the information (which is quiet costly).