NC14GT

I was hoping these days were gone but oil has climbed to nearly $70 per barrel real quick as I write this. Are we headed to $100 prices again?? Be glad our Mustangs can take 87 and 89 because the premium fuel prices could soon be over $4 per gallon again. There is no need to spend that extra $$$ on premium when the lower octanes work perfectly fine as designed.
I was paying $4.40 per gallon for my '01 Trans Am in those $100+ per barrel days as it requires premium. I believe the lower octanes stayed around $4 or maybe a bit under. No fun but that's the world of crude oil with it's ups and downs. I wouldn't give up any ride I had because of gas prices. That's life. At least there is no gas shortage or embargo. Most of you probably never lived through that era in the 70's waiting in long lines on odd/even days to get just 8 - 10 gallons of gas. The lesson learned from those days was never let OPEC control the US fuel supplies. The US has done real well with energy independence and let's hope it continues. OK, enough of the history lesson. Enjoy your rides!

houtex

It's unavoidable. It's going to go up no matter what, it's just the way of things. OPEC plays the market, and does it very well. That anyone believes the lower fuel pricing was ever going to stick around is an unfortunate thought. It's not gonna stop at 4 bucks either this time, I fear...

This is why the electric car thing is happening. Oh, sure, you'll have to pay for fuel in the form of electricity, and you'll have to come to terms with the manufacture of batteries and the nastiness thereto, or acquisition of hydrogen for your fuel cells, or whatever the 'BUT THIS IS BAD' thing you can think of is (and it's not... well, not any worse/bad than the current gasoline situation, just differently so, but anyway)... but oil's going to be less and less a common thing for fuel. Gas stations won't be, they'll be fueling stations. And all that's got OPEC so scared that the Saudis are looking to build hydrogen plants to try to corner that market, and they're in prime location to do so with all their sun...
https://energy.economictimes.indiati...arket/81377588

There's a new world comin'. Whether us oldies like it or not. It doesn't include a whole lot of gasoline cars in it anymore. We've got electric (both plug in and battery powered) lawn mowers, chain saws, edgers, power washers, etc, ad nauseam, and we're on the way to having electric cars be the grand majority. The only difference is whether the electrics are full plugin, hybrid gas, gas-electric, diesel-electric or hydrogen fuel cell-electric.

Whee, into the future we go, kicking and screaming all the way... I'm reminded of Star Trek III...

(Fast Forward to 1:19 in the clip)

"Come come, Mr. Scott, young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant!"

/And while it happens, that OPEC dependence is suddenly nearly gone, and that's what's up, isn't it, at the end of the discussion? Yes.
//Except the Saudis mean to be in it still, so... yeah.

Bert

I cannot understand why the current administration WANTS to be dependent on OPEC for our oil; but apparently they do . . . can anyone explain why they would want that?

Stage_3

BINGO!!!!
I find that to be very stupid and very anti-American. That isn't for America's best interest.

But, I do agree that they will keep climbing. One reason,..........electric cars are coming. They are going to try to cash in now.

m05fastbackGT

One reason, the tree hugging environmentalists don't want fracking! Biden has already shut down the Keystone XL pipeline that eliminated 11k jobs as a direct result!

NC14GT

Many folks enjoy 'hating' Big Oil but despite these haters nasty claims about most everything involving the Chevrons and Exxons of the world, these companies have kept our freedoms alive with their gasoline production. As we approach our older years (we are in our 60's) we are so happy to have lived in an era where my wife and I have enjoyed drive-in movie theaters, drive-in A & W stands and Steak and Shakes (in the old days) and even today's Sonics. No, not in an appliance or electric car with no soul, but in gas powered V8 cars where everyone else of our mindset enjoys each others rides as well. Thumbs up by so many. Nascar races in the 60's and 70's in those incredible big block engine Plymouths, Mercurys, etc.. were something to enjoy in person. Sponsored by Pure and Union 76 gasoline brands. Sunoco does it today so at least that's good.
Day trips through the Great Smoky Mountains and along the Blue Ridge Pkwy in an appliance type car may be OK, but in a topless V8 powered car with that sweet exhaust sound? Hard to beat. Minimal harm on the environment by these cars over the last 75+ years too. In fact the electric companies in TN were responsible for many of the vegetation losses in the national park in the past, not gas powered cars.
Our annual vacations all over the US and Canada are the highlights of our existence. We can't imagine life without those moments in our Mustangs, Trans Ams, etc... While the nasty polluting countries like China and India keep pumping serious poison into our air that no one does a **** thing about, we 'evil Americans' will be off on another adventure soon while we still can. Thank you Ford, GM and Dodge (for now anyway) for still making these wonderful V8 cars for us old timers to enjoy. We'll all be gone soon enough and the new generation can enjoy whatever passes for fun cars in the future.

houtex

1) American companies make money on this by shipping them stuff to get the oil out of the ground.
2) American holdings of oil stay in the ground, strategically ready to use if we need it.
3) Instabilities of some/lots of(?) regions in OPEC mean that stability of any government is better than not, so keep sending them money. We learned that from the Iraq power vacuum, I'd say... Or not...
4) Money. It's all about the money. Somewhere, somehow.
5) ???

I don't think it's 'want'. I think it's 'need'. And maybe even 'have to'. It's not cut and dry by far, and probably the topic requires much more research than any of us wants to put in it. I'd rather go driving my Mustang...

/Although we probably should so the research, but that's world politics and economies for you. Really complicated, lots of moving parts, and it's not always nice or makes sense unless you're intertwined in it directly... Ow.

Bert

Interesting thought about keeping our oil in the ground, while exhausting the OPEC supply . . . but I think the greenies want it left in the ground forever, not held as a reserve to be used later.

It seems the strategy is to weaken the US and strengthen the OPEC countries with respect to oil; just like we are weakening the US while strengthening China in manufacturing. I guess this is good for the ruling elites in some way, while it hurts us regular folks, just like most of the other big-government policies. I might be over-simplifying, but I'd rather use our own oil and let those crazies in the middle east kill each other if they want, we can stay out of it.

SpectreH

Interesting thing about our oil: Some of it is a grade that our refineries are not set up to handle, so we export it. Under Trump, we were exporting more than we imported, so we were a net energy exporter. Xiden has reversed that. With us not competing on the open market as much, there is less completion and we are not helping set the price. There is also a price per barrel point where we can not compete if the price drops too low. So far, there does not seem to be an energy policy yet that the current administration has proposed or enforced that actually helps the USA.

Stage_3

HA HAAAAAAAAAAAA
Xiden!!!! (Biden)

Bejing Biden
LMFAO

houtex

Yes. Yes they do. I'm not in complete disagreement, but it's still silly given how we're currently set up. Maybe later, we can consider the abandonment of crude, but not yet by a lot.

Ok, so this is not that cut and dry. The weakening of the US in the OPEC thing is a completely different subject regarding China.

The Chinese manufacturing is the 'I ain't gonna pay a lot for this muffler' problem. While you and I might go whole hog USA only, most people are just trying to get by, buying just enough with what little they have. This means the cheaper, but workable, product usually gets the nod compared to the more expensive, and yes even longer lasting and/or better overall product. Because need vs cost is a thing. That China can have such cheap labor, materials, etc, ad nauseam, is why this is happening, no other reason. It's exactly why the Chinese transmissions got in Mustangs, let's be clear there, shall we?

That done, the OPEC thing is not a weakening... it's a toleration thing. We need them as much as they need us. It (siphons greatly) because of the political/theological/societal issues thereto, but without them... yeah, we'd make a big mess of this land, scrabbling for the oil we need. We can't let them go away, much as that seems to be a good idea in some ways.

Until and unless we get the oil dependency completely gone, that's the thing. Hence, gotta push, and hard, the policies that say "no more", even if it hurts.

I don't completely agree with that, of course. I'm just saying it is what it is. Without regulations, policies, penalties, etc, people simply WILL NOT do the right thing(tm) even if it saves themselves if it means inconvenience or discomfort or even *effort itself* in some way. I've said it before, I'll say it again: Humans. We (siphon with a large amount of negative pressure) so much, amirite?

---

(bolding mine)
I didn't believe that bolded part, so I went and looked. I'm right. This is incorrect.
https://www.api.org/news-policy-and-...and-export-oil
That article is very interesting, y'all should read it.

The pertinent information:

Quote:

The ability to process the heaviest crude oils has vastly expanded the Western Hemisphere’s oil resource and supply potential, as these oils come mainly from Canada and Venezuela. Therefore, many U.S. refiners are configured generally to process heavy crude oil.

The article goes on to say we have to do a mix of the stuff because of the way the refineries are set up, and the products we need. So that's not the reason we're exporting or importing, it's the needs, not the strategy.

The reason we export vs import is the same thing as the stock market: Buy low, sell high. We can sell ours for more, then you do that. Oil's like the stock market. There's buying, selling, hedging, holding, all that stuff. Except with 'actual' barrels of oil, not papers called 'stock'. So if you can sell it and make profit, of course you do. And then us 'flooding' the market with crude helps to lower prices, so that's good. But as you say, now we're not doing that as much.

The premise is the environment. Not sure how not pumping the still needed oil and selling it helps that, except less spills and less fracking, probably a little less CO2 pumping by the equipment involved...

We're living in some strange times regarding the entire world... all this information. Overload. Error error err**#Y%Gbl3... *click*

Mustang Freak

Basically use everybody else's oil before we use ours and pay the price!

Jaryd21

If Washington has their hands in it we will be at $3 by the summer then $4 by fall and $5 by Christmas, hope I am wrong but that's what I see happening. I just don't understand why we depend on others for our oil. We had friends up north that wanted to work with us and now its basically giving them the middle finger and saying we want to made the country around California and go all electric. That's fine but even Elon Musk stated that America is not structured to handle even California to go all electric. All I am saying is as long as we show someone that America is dependent on them it's not going to matter what we sell our oil at they will always sell to us higher. Its simple.

Stage_3

I think it's going to be 4 bucks a gallon by summer and 5 bucks by Christmas. It's already over 3 bucks a gallon here. That's for the 87 octane.
I HOPE and PRAY that I am very incorrect because that will KILL the economy.

NC14GT

^^ Yeah, it didn't take long here either. Just paid $3.04 for 89 octane at a Mobil in the Atlanta area.

Stage_3

I only use Mobil gas for the daily driver and the Mustang. I seem to find that they and Sunoco are among the highest, but there's a reason for that.
I'm fussy and I will not switch over to a different type of gas. But, yeah, it's getting more and more expensive.

I did a little research form 2016- 2020 and the national gas price never went above 3 dollars a gallon. That's nationally.

SpectreH

I paid $3.09 per gallon for 91 octane this week. Up from $2.49 just weeks ago. Three out of four of our cars need premium.

houtex

Did a little more research on this topic... there's another couple of things going on here...

1. Pandemic caused the people to not go anywhere as things were shut down, and so that caused price of crude to tank (ha!) and production to be slowed down as a result of lessened demand.
2. Texas being hit with that winter storm recently shut down a lot of refineries, so that's also causing a supply issue.
3. Along with 2, the refineries in general have been hit with the pandemic causing them slowness/shutdowns too.
4. Couple those with the pandemic receding (both in mandates expiring and vaccinations happening), the demand's going to go up as people start to move around more, and that means higher prices to keep people from overly using it ("Maybe we don't need to make that trip..." is a thing they actually want to build in, and that's been that way for decades now.)
5. Summer blends start happening, and that drives the price up automatically.

It's not just Washington. It's everything. If we get more production, oil prices can come down. If we don't use the gas, gas prices can come down. If we can get the refineries back up, supply shows up, gas prices can come down. Supply/demand is more the effect than any other shenanigans in Washington, but that doesn't mean those aren't involved too.

Thanks for comin' to my Ted talk.

Mustang Freak

And then there's this...

NC14GT

^^ Interesting. I thought CA would have been first. Any time we have driven through PA on our way to New England the gas prices didn't seem too bad, yet in CA we always noticed the high prices.

I was curious where my own state was and came across this site. They show CA a bit higher than PA. I think there may be different formulas. It also might depend on what date the last survey was done. This one was July 2020. In any event, the taxes are high.
Gas Tax Rates by State | 2020 State Fuel Excise Taxes | Tax Foundation