PaulF

Wait a second here....whenever there is a disaster, the United States is the first to send money, men and supplies to other countries. Now that being said, you state that the United States only gives .14% of their GNP to other countries in need...Put that number into perspective:

Our GNP last year was just under $11 TRILLION dollars. That means that the United States gave over $15 BILLION to other countries in need. ....I don't see how you can call that stingy when there are thousands in Florida that still haven't gotten relief from the hurricanes this year.

Also, take a look at this link:
US Foreign Aid

Specifically, Article 21, where major countries are supposed to give .07% of GNP...then the next section where almost every major country fails to do this.

Percentage wise vs. GNP, we are the lowest, but in actual dollars we are the largest contribitors by a long shot, by over $7 BILLION dollars in 2003.

Could we do more? Right now, I don't think so, not with the deficit that we have and other obligations (the Iraq war the biggest, even if you don't agree with us being there, you can't financially cut off the troops in the field and pulling them out right now would cost 100's of millions as well.) that the United States has. Also, you have to take into account the hundreds of millions in debt relief that the US has given over the years as well.

Yes, other countries have given more than the United States in this one case (only one has given more than the US: Spain at $68 million Tsunami Relief), but over all, the United States gives so much more than anyone else.

Lalo

its just that I believe and know that the U.S. can do so much more in the world to make it better, but nothing happens.

its supposed to be .7% whether or not we give more in total, it needs to be .7% at least. thats just my opinion of course. freakin' switzerland gives almost 1%

so much of the money can be used to help within the U.S. and to help outside of the U.S., but it is used on other things which I see as unimportant and wasteful.
iraq is a big waste, but we're stuck in there and the troops need all the help they can get

PaulF

I agree with you there. But I'm the type of person that says, "Hey, you signed an agreement, you need to live up to it." Professional sports stars anger me when they hold out to renegotiate because they aren't getting paid enough....then you shouldn't have signed the contract, stupid! But we have to hold ALL of the countries responsible that aren't meeting their numbers, not just the United States.

But I just think that the US is getting a bad wrap these days and it's not all justified. Europe is being held up as the model of perfection and it's not, they have their problems too.

Personally, I think the US needs to get its act together at home before we start waging all out war on terrorists abroad. I'm dubious on the timing of the Iraq War, although I think that overall it will be a good thing. Even if the Iraqi people elect someone that we don't like, at least they had a choice. If we wanted to send 145,000 troops after bin Laden, I don't think that anyone would have a huge problem with that. But there is so much work to do here at home with national security, it's not even funny.

Oh dude, don't even get me started. lol There is so much pork in the US government, it's not even funny.....It totally bites that we can spend 100's of millions on Star Wars II, but our troops can't even get body and vechile armor for deployment in Iraq. If you want to check out a decent site on military pork, check out www.hackworth.com. You have to take some of what he writes with a grain of salt though, because some of it is based upon people just complaining and sometimes it isn't fully researched. But alot of it rings true.

Lalo

i like you, Paul lol

and no, i dont think people would have a problem sending a bunch of troops to get bin laden and his clan (although we wouldnt of had had that problem if we had done what we were supposed to do from the start... blada blada blada...)

PaulF

Yeah, I know...it's funny, I'm a conservative and people automatically think that I am all for Bush and everything that he says and does. Really, I consider myself a liberal republican (And yes, I did make that up myself! lol ), I have no problem questioning the deed and motives of my party. Yeah, I voted for Bush, but it was mainly because I felt that Kerry and Edwards came off as whiners and I didn't feel that they would do a better job than Bush. Both on the homefront and abroad.

But that doesn't mean that I think Bush is the be all, end all President. Personally, I don't think he can do two things at once....take care of problems at home and abroad. But I do think that he needs to finish what he started in Iraq and I think he can start winding things down by the end of his second term. The elections that are going to take place soon are a step in the right direction.

When I'm talking about a step in the right direction, I'm talking about steps towards getting us out of Iraq. The biggest problem that we have in the Middle East is that we (our politicians) don't understand the people over there and how they operate. We can't force a political system on anyone, but we CAN give them the opportunity to make a choice, something that they didn't have under Saddam.

The problem is, it seems like the US is trying to get someone in there that they agree with. That person (or persons) isn't going to last very long, because someone is going to take him out for siding with the "infidels". I think this goes to show you how the majority of people in "public service" view the political system in the United States. We get to choose who we want for President, but it's going to be a choice of who the two major parties want...we really have no say. And now we're trying to apply that to Iraq and guess what? It ain't gonna fly. We could do with a little more political "rebellion" in this country too.

Give me someone that tells the truth most of the time (hey, somethings we shouldn't know about), will install a flat tax and get spending under control and he/she's got my vote. I don't care what party they are with.

Wow, how the heck did we end up here in this conversation? lmao!

P.S. - I think that one of the soldiers should have gotten up and kicked Rumsfeld in the nuts when he tried to brush off their comments about the availability of armored vechiles in Iraq. Don't tell these guys that armor doesn't solve all their problems, they know that better than you. Just give them what they need to get the job done and they'll do it. Is that too much to ask for?

P.S.S. - Thanks! Always good to have another friend!

Lalo

now that's what i'm talking about


ok, sorry... back to the tragedy in southasia

Lalo

you'd be surprised how many of the off-topic threads have ended up like this lol

PaulF

lol...I'm sure....

Seriously though, I'm seeing some unbelieveable numbers....they are talking about over 100,000 dead soon...that's completely insane! Apparently there are countries that are asking for oil to burn the bodies to fight against potential health problems.

So very sad....an unbelievable tragedy!

Treadhead

Very sad when you have so many dead that you have to take a pic and bury them before they are identified to help stop the spread of disease. I don't think they will ever identify everyone. It's scary when you consider all the damage in several countries caused by one earthquake (granted it was a big one)in the middle of an ocean.

PaulF

It really is unreal....

I saw something on the Weather Channel or Discovery last year about tidal waves...there was one in Greenland or Iceland, I forget which....basically, this iceberg floated into a port of a fishing town and the weather got warmer fairly quickly....a pretty big chunk of the iceberg broke off and fell into the water, causing 20-30ft waves and the devestation was unbelievable.

And that wasn't even close to the type of waves that they were talking about hitting SE Asia...500+ miles an hour, I read somewhere.

mr-mstng

The problem now, is getting the needed supplies to the remote areas that are affected. I read that some areas were getting supplies by helicopeter since no ground areas were passable.

mr-mstng

Hats off to the British!

I think the U.S. can beat that number... hint, hint.

Lalo

WOW... 38 million from the British Public, not their gov't!

Lalo

i forgot the name of the island, but they make up 80,000 of the total dead

mr-mstng

Indonesia Needs Help, Death Toll Expected To Exceed 400,000
Thu Dec 30 2004 12:52:01 ET

KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 30 (Bernama) -- The death toll in Acheh, the region worst hit by last Sunday's tsunami, may exceed 400,000 as many affected areas could still not be reached for search and rescue operations, Indonesia's Ambassador to Malaysia Drs H. Rusdihardjo said Thursday.

He said the estimate was based on air surveillance by Indonesian authorities who found no signs of life in places like Meulaboh, Pulau Simeulue and Tapak Tuan while several islands off the west coast of Sumatera had "disappeared".

He said the latest death toll of more than 40,000 in Acheh and northern Sumatera did not take into account the figures from the other areas, especially in the west of the region.

"Aerial surveillance found the town of Meulaboh completely destroyed with only one buiding standing. The building, which belonged to the military, happens to be on a hill," he told reporters after receiving RM1 million in aid for Indonesia's Tsunami Disaster Relief Fund here Thursday.

Rusdihardjo said there were about 150,000 residents in Meulaboh, which was located 150km from the epicentre of the earthquake while Pulau Simeuleu had a population of 76,000.

future9er24

^ wow 400K thats huge

this is really horrible. it really makes you think how insignificant we all are. just like that, mother nature demolishes soo much, causes so much damage.

its really sad. especially what the people over there are going through losing their friends and family. not to mention jobs, homes, possesions everything is gone.

whats worse is that we (my family) have a great deal of relatives still in India, by the coast as well. i hope they're ok. and to think all the stuff i saw while visiting this past summer is totalled. my prayerrs go out to all those affeced.

to put it really bluntly... this stinks like heck

but it is nice to see that there are people ready to help, not enough IMO, but at least there's something. and about that one country that did stop they're fighting to help eachother out, kudos to them for being better people than the one that didnt.

houtex

This is just surreal.

I..

I.. The numbers keep going up...

It's just incredible. Tragic. Unfathomable.

If an earthquake/tsunami can do this, what else can nature do? Maybe we should all as an Earth unite in a common cause of just being good to one another? No boundaries, just "I'm a person, so are you, ain't that wonderful? Let's go have lunch or something."

Man, that'd be great. 'Cause nature has us all in it's sights. Might as well be nice while we can...

/And then someone would hold me up at knifepoint. Oh wait, they did. My bad.
//MikeyB! knows it's kinda inappropriate humor, but understands the myopia his vision of what the world should be is, and that's why he typed that.
///This disaster... terrible. I feel so helpless about it...

PaulF

It would be nice....too bad there are too many closed minded people out there...

Ya just gotta keep plugging along and being nice to one person at a time, it'll catch on.

Lalo

ditto... i love that idea. wish the world was like that

FrankBullitt05

I'm with ya Mikey

BTW, here is a link on the early warning fiasco...Thais Probe Missing Warning