HizliBullet

hey guys

i will be getting married soon but thinking from her perspective i dont know how to make prenuptial sound appealing to her. i cant think of polite words to mean --> my stuff is mine, i dont wanna give you half. yes she wants to marry me for me nevertheless its a topic that wont sound pleasant to the ear

how can i approach to this topic lets talk about it, Im gonna put the ring on when we go on vacation soon, and im thinking of opening the subject then.

houtex

Since you asked... I must say that these are my own opinions. I do not wish to hurt, insult, or otherwise malign anyone else. But this topic always bothers me at a fundamental level of what marriage is supposed to be about... so I'm responding. Sorry if it hurts, insults, or otherwise maligns, they're just my opinions, k? Thanks.

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First, right off the bat: If you're not ready to share your stuff, then you're not ready to marry, IMO. Time to call it off until you're really ready... and if she's not the one you wanna share stuff with, is she really the one to be with at all? Hm?

I don't know enough about you to really say anything about your financial and possessions status, but do you really have enough to truly worry about this? After the marriage has actually started, from that point forward, no matter, what, *everything you do* is 50% hers... and vice versa... so unless you're not going to make money, buy things, etc... you are SOL on that. That's proven by years of law. After that, it's a negotiations and desire to continue fighting for the things you desire... whether that's amicable or not is up to the two parties. Wars of the Roses happen. But right off, gearing up for the war before the battle is even begun?

Which is why I question contemplating prenups. You take your chances, and if it's something that's crossing the mind... you aren't in it for the right reasons. This is my opinion, naive as it may be, but seriously... if it's something you're going to be constantly worried about, then you are screwing it up from the first. It will hurt her, and always be in the back of her head too, and ultimately might wind up being such a sore point, or a suspiciousness issue, that the marriage is doomed. Again, just my opinion.

Reverse it... would you want to have her come up to you with this? And how would you feel? I know how I'd feel... I'd be done with the relationship. Nobody calls me a cheating bastard before the marriage even starts. I'd be insulted, hurt, and to be honest? Screw her, go away, you suspicious broad. I'll find someone who trust me and I can trust.

But then, I'm dumb like that... I'd rather have a best friend who wants to be with me and share everything than what would be akin to a business partner who I have to protect myself from from a potential situation that may or may not happen.

And that's my opinion. But it's your life. Do what you will, and good luck!

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Now, the final question to be answered... how to bring it up? Well, news like this has no way to make it pretty. You just do it, and hope she decides you're worth it, I suppose. No flowers, no gifts... this is a hurtful idea, I'm gonna guess, to talk to her about, and as such, trying to make it sugary and pretty is just not gonna happen.

Flagstang

I think the best way to say it is "if anything does happen and we make up our mind on spliting this prenup will help make it fast and take out most of the problems. We will not have to fight or hire lawyers. It will also keep it from getting crazy and childish."

and in the words of chrish rock..

"?Chris Rock: Everybody need a pre-nup. People think you gotta be rich to get a pre-nup. You got twenty million and your wife wants ten, big deal, you ain't starvin'! But if you got thirty thousand, and your wife wants fifteen, you might have to kill her!"



I know the older generation thinks that a prenup means people some how really do not love each other. But people now days like insurance. Think about it! If you travel you get traveler insurance.. you drive a mustang.. you call allstate, state farm, farm state, the lizard one and so on. You do not buy life insurance because you really want to die. You buy it incase something happens. You would be dumb not to have health insurance if you had the money to get it. You would have to be crazy not to see the current trends with married people today.

change with the times or you could be paying for her new mans mustang and steaks monthly for a long while.


also its not a trust issue. its not just for cheating. its because some times people learn to hate each other. other peoples breath can be the start to a fight.

BlueSkyVert

IMO, and it's only MO, if you feel you need a prenup, then I personally wouldn't be getting married. But then again, we both work our butts off, incomes are close to equal, and I've had a history of staying relatively objective even when being wronged by others. So maybe I take things for granted? Anyhoo, enough about me.

If you insist on proceeding down this path, then the only thing you need to be is honest, NOT appealing. Just tell her exactly why you want it, for both yourself and for her. Then hope she is on the same page.

cdynaco

That has nothing to do with the issue in today's American society.

Two people can be madly in love, open and honest, be true partners and all that good stuff. And the marriage can be a wonderful marriage and have every prospect of being one of those that lasts forever.

But in this day and age where 50% of marriages end - and particularly the increasing number that end quickly and badly these days - the fact remains that either or both partners retain the right to change their mind and become a-holes. Not just the cheating, lying, deserting kind; but the kind that then purposely tries to steal YOUR assets and wreck YOUR dream that they suddenly decided was no longer for them.

Had a great first marriage - 17 yrs. Loved and cherished each other and were best friends for a huge chunk of my life. Many good things about it - too many to go into here. Come home one day and she's gone. Then proceeded to refuse a 50% settlement and merely wanted to wreck my remaining dream - even tried to force the cutting of my trees just for spite. In the end the judge awarded her only 1/3 and I kept my home/lifestyle here at the ranch.

5 yrs later I try again. But after the first experience, I vowed to myself before God that I would never risk my home, trees, ranch, horses that He has blessed me with... because of the hard learned life lesson that people can and do change their minds regardless of the love and vows expressed.

Since it was a second marriage for both of us, we both had assets and it was easier to explain a pre-nup than if only one of us had assets and it looked like a pre-nup was just being selfish and not willing to share with the less prosperous partner. Besides, I'll share all my stuff - they just can't have it if they split. My explanation to her was as clear cut (though more thorough) as I just described above. And I explained that what if I were to be the one that changed my mind - a pre-nup would protect her from me becoming an a-hole and trying to steal her stuff.

So the pre-nup was written "should we divorce, you take your stuff (that you brought into the marriage), I keep my stuff, and we split anything we jointly acquire/build from the date of marriage forward 50/50". She seemed rational about it until the week before the marriage, then starting making a scene. (Obviously some of her "Ms Independent" friends were talking in her ear.) And I reminded her of the vow I made to myself and she could cancel the wedding if she wants to renege on her agreeing to a pre-nup previously, that I would not put my home and my kids (horses) at risk should she decide to quit someday.

Its a good thing I held my ground because she unfolded as a true whacko nutcase, argued about everything, tried to pull a gun on me at one point (and I was too stupid to make a police report and have her spend a night in the can because I was 'trying to repair our relationship' thru counseling with dumb **** elders in a church), and she was gone in 6 mos. Wow... And it didn't stop her from trying to screw me after she walked away and went home to mama. But thankfully I insisted on the pre-nup and today, I have my home, trees, ranch, and horses though it still cost me plenty in legal fees (had I called the cops it would have helped me tremendously from a legal standpoint. And now I know to put the splitting of legal fees 50/50 into the contract too! LOL Otherwise the guy always gets screwed for it even though the chick splits. ). You just never truly know another person until you have been together for quite some time - and even then you can wake up one day and they quit being the person you knew. Plain and ugly truth.

And I will never marry again. No more lawyers no more crap. I am a loyal monogamous man and if a live in situation were to present itself with some lady I loved and cared for I would honor the arrangement as if I were married - and expect her to do the same or no reason to be together. But no more legal ties, no more lawyers - ever again! I'm out!!

But for anyone else that wants to marry, if you are bringing a chunk of assets into the marriage, I highly recommend a "marriage contract" / pre-nup. If you are both starting out with very little, probably not as important, although based on my life experience from my first marriage...

I think only an unreasonable person - or greedy/crafty person - would reject an advance contract that covers the 'what if' where it simply returns assets to each respective partner and clearly states that joint stuff is split 50/50. No arguing should a break-up occur. As much as marriage is a commitment based on love (and spirituality for many of us), anytime you co-mingle assets it becomes partly a business type relationship too.

In my hard earned opinion.

Good luck!

05GT-O.C.D.

The only way you can pull this off is to ask her what's on her mind about it. Don't tell her that you want one, but ask her if she was considering one or not. Tell her that you're excited about the wedding and were watching some marriage show on TV and they ended up discussing it. You should be able to judge by her reaction how she feels about it.

I'm in the don't do it camp. Marriages sometimes suck. Marriages sometimes suck for long periods of time. But the point is that you love each other, you stick it out, and you make things right. Marriage is difficult and divorce is supposed to be even more difficult. If you make the divorce easy w/ a prenup, you're selling your marriage short.

IMO of course. 33 y/o, married for 9yrs.

cdynaco

Unfortunately American society has made divorce simple - regardless of pre-nups. Heck you can get "do it yourself" kits in the mail!

I haven't looked this stuff up in years but as I remember, the divorce rate for 2nd marraiges was no higher for those who had pre-nups vs those who did not have pre-nups. Pre-nups are more common in 2nd marriages because of accumulated assets and children.

Pre-nups are a non-issue as it relates to the chance of splitting up or staying together. No one plans to divorce when they marry. The pre-nup contractually specifies the division of marital property in advance should a divorce occur. And sadly, HALF the time it is going to occur.

If a woman loves you enough that she wants to be your wife for the rest of your lives, she will agree because she recognizes your legitimate fear with such a lousy 50% success rate, and it protects her as well. And of course if a man loves a woman enough that he wants to be her husband for the rest of their lives, he will be sure to lovingly & fairly provide for her in the Marriage Contract.

Antigini-GT/CS

I'm sorry, but....

Good luck. I don't think that conversation would go well with either gender, but I would suggest you make it as neutral as possible with as little "I just don't want you to get anything" as you can muster. Just be prepared for the argument which is more than likely to happen.

cdynaco

Another thought from the memory banks.

If you are going to do a pre-nup I strongly advise against the 'vesting' type Agreements where a spouse gets an increasing percentage along the way and then at 10 years they are "100% vested" and get half of everything he owns.

I remember two long distance business associates in CA that had those and sure enough - shortly after 10 years the wives deserted, filed for divorce, and got half of everything - including assets the husbands had built up before the marriage.

That's why I formulated the "take your stuff, leave my stuff behind, split stuff acquired after the wedding date 50/50".

And in case you share Judeo-Christian Bible beliefs, there is a Scriptural precedent in Numbers where if any of the daughters of Zelophehad [Ze·lo´phe·had] - to whom Yahweh God told Moses to allot the family inheritance of land to his daughters because he had no sons - were to marry into another tribe (where they would be in line for an inheritance of land from their new husband), they had to relinquish their interest in the Zelophehad tribal land. In other words, they could not get both allotments and/or accumulate assets by marrying repeatedly. They had to leave "my stuff" behind and be satisfied with the new husband's "stuff". In contrast to America today were ex's get wealthy along the way accumulating houses and retirement accounts as they divorce and remarry 2 and 3+ times. Of course your priest or minister probably won't show you this one. LOL It was revealed through my own study of the Scriptures and praying for direction.

edumspeed

This is just my personal opinion since you asked nicely.

I talked with my fiance about that a long time ago, and we both agreed on it. Our relationship has been based on very open and honest communication from the very beginning, and it has worked pretty well thus far. As stated above, there's a 50/50 chance in marriage success, and in this harsh times we're going through, it's good to have some backup plan in case something goes wrong. No one can predict the future. We love each other a lot, but we both know that stuff can happen, even if we don't want to. It's something that you should have discussed with her some time back, not at the eve of you wedding. IMHO. But good luck for both of you.

bob

This! You need to protect yourself, I've seen to many nasty and vindictive divorces. Fortunately I've able to watch from the sidelines. Hell, the last year my brother was married, his wife stopped paying the bills and hid them so he wouldn't see the late and collection notices, saved the money in a seperate account and when they decided to call it quits, bolted with a nice fat savings account and left my brother with a crap load of bills - all on advice from her mom!

The way I see it, what you had before you tied the note is yours, what she had was hers, what they bought after they got hitched is theirs (unless implicitly implied - ie; hey babe, this is your car) so if it falls apart, the "they" stuff gets split up according to the settlement and nothing more (unless an alternative agreement is worked out).

GRAYPNY

This is my **** and that is your ****. End of story!

Karpro

Don't talk about it on the vacation that you ask the question on. Assuming she says yes, enjoy the moment and the vacation. There will be lots of time and opportunity once you are home. It can be brought up when you start talking about combinig financial lives. How will money and bills be handled. At my home everything goes into and comes out of one pot. Most of my friends have seperate accounts and have arrangements to split different bills.

Rather B.Blown

http://www.tbs.com/video/index/0,,44084|314580|,00.html

499CSTANG

I agree with Karpro, enjoy the vacation, then when you start talking about the wedding and married life, bring it up. The way I see it is, if she loves you for you, she'll still marry you with or with out the pre-nup. Good Luck!

Glenn

women are vengeful!

Ministang

Everyone's views on marriage are different, but mine are pretty extreme by society's standards today. For my wife and I divorce is not an option. The word isn't even in our vocabulary in any conversation that pertains to our relationship. We've been married for over 16 years, and didn't live together or sleep together before we were married, I guess we were pretty old-fashioned in that regard. We spent 6-7 months as friends before we started dating/courting, spent 6-7 months dating, then were engaged for a similar amount of time.

Because of our views on marriage and divorce, a prenuptial agreement doesn't apply in our situation. Some will think I am niave, but going back many generations, the divorce rate in mine and my wife's families is very very low, less than 5%, and we have large families in our background. IMHO a prenup is just planning for future failure of marriage. Having the right attitude about marriage and choosing the right partner to spend the rest of your life with obviates the need for a prenup. YMMV obviously.

BlueSkyVert

I respect all of the viewpoints in this thread (except the fact that vengefulness is limited to one gender - let's face it people, it's a HUMAN trait) although I disagree with many of them. I feel your personal "success rate" is completely up to you and your partner.

However, I've also learned quite a bit from reading the other responses. I guess I never realized how different I feel compared to others when it comes to this topic! I realize now that marriage means different things to different people, and every relationship is different. Our previous experiences and the experiences of those around us also shape our approaches in life. Perhaps the fact that my parents have been married for 40 years and are still very much in love (it still grosses me out when they get all kissy, lol) and my husband's parents have been married for 45 years sways my opinion somewhat.

Therefore, for many folks, maybe a pre-nup is a good idea indeed. If it's needed to achieve a level of comfort, then do it. Good luck to you and your fiance, I wish you nothing but the best!

On another note, I also think this issue has everything to do with personal ethics. My father and mother raised me to take pride in what I've earned by myself. Staying home and not working has NEVER been an option for me. So the concept of taking anything that's not rightfully mine is completely foreign, marriage or no marriage. There's no honor or pride in hoodwinking someone out of what is rightfully theirs, no matter what hurt they've possibly inflicted on me. I don't change who I am because of someone else.

So I question if someone who tries to grub all of the joint assets was ever really the person their spouse believed them to be in the first place.

David Young

The 'woman' always win in court. I've lost everything 3 times in divorce court. I didn't even get half of any of the houses i had bought. I'll never get married again!!!!

I feel better now LOL!!!

red pony

Charliehorse, I have read your extensive reasoning on this subject that you have written and must say that I never believed that I could agree more with you!!! I mean 100% agree, right down to the bible evidence! GOOD WRITING!! The only thing I might add to what you said thus far is that before lawyers and judges got their greedy hands into the divorce business, and that is what it is .. a business, people WORKED at their marriage! Divorce wasn't an option! Now, if we look at what a marriage is based on .. TRUST... we see a vantage point where lawyers FEED on ! In BUSINESS law, trust is a liability! Lawyers have changed marriage from an institution of trust into a business institution! Unfortunately, in this world we live in, the one who loves the least ,seems to have the most control in a relationship! So now in order to gain some form of "solvency" in a venture that has no guarantee of success, an "Insurance policy" must be put in place! Banks do it all the time! Why shouldn't YOU?! Banks call it colateral! We call it a prenup! They don't want to lose anything, and neither do we! Prenups stop the proliferation of marriage being an opportunity to get rich by people acting in a heartless and ruthless manner! FACE IT! YOU CAN'T READ ANOTHER PERSON'S HEART! A person can change over night! Just like a bank protects iself from financial disaster due to "default", it protects you from the "quitters"! If they want your stuff, they need to stay with you to have it! Now they have to weigh out what they really want... is it really worth it to them? Now they have to work things out! If they manifest a "You Bastard!" attitude about a prenup, they never had honerable intentions!!