Toyota Kicking Everyones Posterior
4/24/07, 07:56 AM
#1
Shelby GT500 Member
Thread Starter
Toyota Kicking Everyones Posterior
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070424/...ta_gm_sales_dc
Rediculous. I can't believe how this company has just exploded. This is reminiscent of Dell in the 90s. Dell came out and said "our machines are better and cheaper" and people ate it up like candy. Now, after using them for some time and understanding whats up, Dell isn't so hot anymore. Toyota has done basically the same thing, but better. Their quality is there (in most instances) and the fuel economy is as well. I just can't get over how people are ignoring the boring styling. I guess to the average Joe, it just doesn't matter.
Rediculous. I can't believe how this company has just exploded. This is reminiscent of Dell in the 90s. Dell came out and said "our machines are better and cheaper" and people ate it up like candy. Now, after using them for some time and understanding whats up, Dell isn't so hot anymore. Toyota has done basically the same thing, but better. Their quality is there (in most instances) and the fuel economy is as well. I just can't get over how people are ignoring the boring styling. I guess to the average Joe, it just doesn't matter.
4/24/07, 05:02 PM
#3
I think the problem is that every rival auto maker wants to be like Toyota right now demonstrating a complete lack of understanding that many people want more than a simple appliance for a daily ride. To be blunt there isn't a mainstream mid-size sedan in existence that doesn't adhere to the same basic template as all the rest. And since Toyota and Honda arguably do boring better than anybody it is hardly a surprise that their mid-size sedans lead the pack.
IMO the above is the same reason why the suv craze occured not so long ago...those vehicles offered distinctive styling and a far less blaise image than the typical car did at the time which is why they held appeal. I also think the gradual mainstreaming of suv's contributed to their rapid decline along with the obvious crunch brought on by increasing fuel prices. As suv's evolved into something more and more like cars they lost some of the appeal that made people want them in the first place.
This was the inspiration behind my controversial thread arguing that the Ford brand going to US-built, rwd cars accross the board could prove to be a real coup in the market due to the superior balance this brings to the table both stylistically and dynamically...not to mention the fact that this is arguably seen as a more American approach to cars. And frankly if the American consumer was willing to overlook cars like the Accord and Camry for vehicles like the first and second gen Explorers which were far inferior to those mid size sedans in every dynamic respect, and they did so by the millions, it then becomes pretty difficult to argue that the basic, white bread, fwd with a four or six template holds the appeal that so many assume.
So long as Ford is simply trying to offer an American take on the same basic recipe Toyota and Honda employ they will never reach the level of success they want and need to achieve. And at the moment that is exactly what Ford is trying to do with their mainstream sedans.
IMO the above is the same reason why the suv craze occured not so long ago...those vehicles offered distinctive styling and a far less blaise image than the typical car did at the time which is why they held appeal. I also think the gradual mainstreaming of suv's contributed to their rapid decline along with the obvious crunch brought on by increasing fuel prices. As suv's evolved into something more and more like cars they lost some of the appeal that made people want them in the first place.
This was the inspiration behind my controversial thread arguing that the Ford brand going to US-built, rwd cars accross the board could prove to be a real coup in the market due to the superior balance this brings to the table both stylistically and dynamically...not to mention the fact that this is arguably seen as a more American approach to cars. And frankly if the American consumer was willing to overlook cars like the Accord and Camry for vehicles like the first and second gen Explorers which were far inferior to those mid size sedans in every dynamic respect, and they did so by the millions, it then becomes pretty difficult to argue that the basic, white bread, fwd with a four or six template holds the appeal that so many assume.
So long as Ford is simply trying to offer an American take on the same basic recipe Toyota and Honda employ they will never reach the level of success they want and need to achieve. And at the moment that is exactly what Ford is trying to do with their mainstream sedans.
4/24/07, 06:46 PM
#4
Shelby GT500 Member
Thread Starter
I think the problem is that every rival auto maker wants to be like Toyota right now demonstrating a complete lack of understanding that many people want more than a simple appliance for a daily ride. To be blunt there isn't a mainstream mid-size sedan in existence that doesn't adhere to the same basic template as all the rest. And since Toyota and Honda arguably do boring better than anybody it is hardly a surprise that their mid-size sedans lead the pack.
IMO the above is the same reason why the suv craze occured not so long ago...those vehicles offered distinctive styling and a far less blaise image than the typical car did at the time which is why they held appeal. I also think the gradual mainstreaming of suv's contributed to their rapid decline along with the obvious crunch brought on by increasing fuel prices. As suv's evolved into something more and more like cars they lost some of the appeal that made people want them in the first place.
This was the inspiration behind my controversial thread arguing that the Ford brand going to US-built, rwd cars accross the board could prove to be a real coup in the market due to the superior balance this brings to the table both stylistically and dynamically...not to mention the fact that this is arguably seen as a more American approach to cars. And frankly if the American consumer was willing to overlook cars like the Accord and Camry for vehicles like the first and second gen Explorers which were far inferior to those mid size sedans in every dynamic respect, and they did so by the millions, it then becomes pretty difficult to argue that the basic, white bread, fwd with a four or six template holds the appeal that so many assume.
So long as Ford is simply trying to offer an American take on the same basic recipe Toyota and Honda employ they will never reach the level of success they want and need to achieve. And at the moment that is exactly what Ford is trying to do with their mainstream sedans.
IMO the above is the same reason why the suv craze occured not so long ago...those vehicles offered distinctive styling and a far less blaise image than the typical car did at the time which is why they held appeal. I also think the gradual mainstreaming of suv's contributed to their rapid decline along with the obvious crunch brought on by increasing fuel prices. As suv's evolved into something more and more like cars they lost some of the appeal that made people want them in the first place.
This was the inspiration behind my controversial thread arguing that the Ford brand going to US-built, rwd cars accross the board could prove to be a real coup in the market due to the superior balance this brings to the table both stylistically and dynamically...not to mention the fact that this is arguably seen as a more American approach to cars. And frankly if the American consumer was willing to overlook cars like the Accord and Camry for vehicles like the first and second gen Explorers which were far inferior to those mid size sedans in every dynamic respect, and they did so by the millions, it then becomes pretty difficult to argue that the basic, white bread, fwd with a four or six template holds the appeal that so many assume.
So long as Ford is simply trying to offer an American take on the same basic recipe Toyota and Honda employ they will never reach the level of success they want and need to achieve. And at the moment that is exactly what Ford is trying to do with their mainstream sedans.
I agree with this. The problem of course is how to completely change a product line with costs being what they are. For Ford to do this, it would probably either propel the company like never before or kill it forever. Not sure even Mullaly has the gonads to do that.
4/24/07, 06:55 PM
#5
I agree with this. The problem of course is how to completely change a product line with costs being what they are. For Ford to do this, it would probably either propel the company like never before or kill it forever. Not sure even Mullaly has the gonads to do that.
4/24/07, 11:58 PM
#6
Cobra R Member
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lol, you know you're on a mustang board when...
While it was definitely true throughout the 90's, i would argue that Toyota's current designs are not at all boring. The new Camry ain't all that pretty to look at, kinda a beefier, more muscular version of the Mazda6 but not done very well. But i would hardly call it boring when compared to the Ford 500 or even the fusion. I think the Fusion is more original, especially thanks to the headlights, but I still don't find the current Camry boring in comparison. If anything, its a little over the top, with shapes and curves that try to get attention, but really end up making the car look boring. I think Toyota designed the car, aiming right at american tastes, with a bulging hood and grill giving it a pretty muscular look for a sedan.
Another example of ugly but definitely not boring would be the Yaris. Or even the Sienna! Sure its a mini van, but as far as minivans go, its a lot more interesting to look at than anything out of Ford, GM or Chrysler.
But I do think that Toyota's current success is largely thanks to a reputation based on data from half about a decade ago. Most people are still convinced that american cars are crap for quality, when all the most recent studies show they are above average.
#1 Sales and stuff like that doesn't mean #1 automaker in my mind. Most of us would agree that a number one automaker need to build not only many cars, but cars that instill passion in their owners, and I don't think Toyota achieves this, despite the garish designs.
While it was definitely true throughout the 90's, i would argue that Toyota's current designs are not at all boring. The new Camry ain't all that pretty to look at, kinda a beefier, more muscular version of the Mazda6 but not done very well. But i would hardly call it boring when compared to the Ford 500 or even the fusion. I think the Fusion is more original, especially thanks to the headlights, but I still don't find the current Camry boring in comparison. If anything, its a little over the top, with shapes and curves that try to get attention, but really end up making the car look boring. I think Toyota designed the car, aiming right at american tastes, with a bulging hood and grill giving it a pretty muscular look for a sedan.
Another example of ugly but definitely not boring would be the Yaris. Or even the Sienna! Sure its a mini van, but as far as minivans go, its a lot more interesting to look at than anything out of Ford, GM or Chrysler.
But I do think that Toyota's current success is largely thanks to a reputation based on data from half about a decade ago. Most people are still convinced that american cars are crap for quality, when all the most recent studies show they are above average.
#1 Sales and stuff like that doesn't mean #1 automaker in my mind. Most of us would agree that a number one automaker need to build not only many cars, but cars that instill passion in their owners, and I don't think Toyota achieves this, despite the garish designs.
4/25/07, 03:12 AM
#7
Closet American
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Remember, most people just buy cars for A to B transportation. Enthusiasts like us represent a relatively small cross-section of the car buying public.
If Ford can survive the next four years - and given it continues to improve its vehicles - the 'reputation pendulum' will swing back the other way eventually. These things are often cyclical, though in this industry, such cycles can take a few decades.
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