An interesting little tidbit in an Autoblog piece on the new 400 HP L92 6.2L V8 truck motor:

"And if rumors are correct, they’ll make themselves at home under the hood of a pony car in a couple more years, making for a competitive effort in the horsepower war that will soon engulf that class."

5.7-6.1 Hemi, 6.2 L92s, what will Ford do to counter this onslaught?

Boy, these will be the good 'ol days. Amazing for those of us who remember the '70s and '80s and never thought we'd see under-hood performance that would match, never mind exceed, those monster motors of the '60s. On top of that, they're reasonably economical (if you keep your foot out of them), idle and drive smoothly, are reliable and durable and you can practically breath out of the tailpipe -- things that most of their '60s progenitors could rarely claim, if at all.

 

I guess I'm just wondering how fast cars are going to get.

While hp is def fun, I really can't imagine needing-- or being able to safely control--the power neccesary to get to 60 in faster than 4.5 seconds. Now maybe if these muscle cars were getting cheaper rather than faster it would interest me more.

 

I have a feeling that, just as in the early 70s, insurance and fuel economy will kill the horsepower war. We'd better enjoy it while we can.

 

I Know that it'll be hard on the HP war but I doubt it'll kill it

 

Yeah, that always worries me too. At what point will "too much" hp trigger some backlash, ala the '70s and '80s, and shut down this performance car renaissance. As they say, those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. This is one main reason I champion weight reduction and handling dynamics so much as this is a more sly, and dare say, safer, way to achieve all around performance than simple straight line acceleration alone.

Also, big horsepower numbers make for such an easy and convenient target to instigate a backlash against, but who can complain about tje excellent handling, braking and economy that comes from a light car with a well engineered chassis? As an extreme example of the lightweight approach, look at the Lotus Elise at a feathery 2,000 pounds.

I remember one of the Mustang mags putting it up against the '03 Cobra and guess which won, handily in most cases. Not that I'm suggesting the Stang suddenly become a 1-ton lightweight, but it does illustrate the potential overall effectiveness of the approach.

The GT500, on the other hand, simply seems to be following the tail-chasing approach of ever bigger motors pushing ever fatter cars iwth only passing regard for overall dynamics and efficiency.

And if blazing acceleration comes from all that dead-weight reduction too, well, gosh...

 

Well put Rhumb!! I certainly agree that emphasizing chassis and handling dynamics as well as curb weight has benefits for everyone, including those who enjoy clipping an apex or blasting down the 1320.

 

I would hope that the car companies could come to some gentleman's agreement to not escalate the HP wars on their ponycars. Along with the insruance prices going up, the sticker prices will rise and push the cars out of their target market, this was one of the previous gen's Z28's achillies heels.

I am suspecting that GM and D-C are targeting are going to target more of a niche market, where the target market is affluent baby-boomer and keeping the volumes low as opposed to the Mustangs high-volume approach. Ford cannot just stand pat and think that the Shelby will be competitive. I believe they need to step up to the plate and offer a well rounded IRS equipped upmarket Mustang SVT or S/E model to compete.

 

Why was the sticker price of a Z28 its achillies heel?

A 2002 Z28 had a lower base price then a 2002 Mustang GT.

 

I hope that the hp wars will end and companies will start devoting engineering cars to be lighter weight. I can't beleive how heavy the 2007 Cobra is

 

Hah, its cheaper and easier to add power, plus its sells cars better. Heavier vehicles are also seen as having better saftey, just ask your great uncle Charley about the time he got tore up at the christmas party back in 74, drove his cadi through the bank vault wall and lived to tell about it.

Or how bout the folks who consider things like heated seats, navigation system, quad zone climate control, 24 disc DVD/CD changer with acompanying entertainment system to be the bare essentials to have any sort of chance to make the trek from the driveway to the street anything less than a snowballs chance in heck (okay I might be exaggerating a bit).

The 2000 pound mustang "enthusiasts" clamor for will never be a reality.

I think the best Ford could do woud save maybe 100 to 200 pounds without resorting to extremely expensive methods to remove more weight from the car.

 

Ohhh...we got 3 valves and VVT in an OHC V8, how could it ever lose out to those antiquated over the hill large displacement pushrod V8s ?

Man, Ford needs an all aluminum 5.4 3v as a regular option in the mustang so bad. How bad is it when your on another board and you try and start a flame war because somebody said the current car is seen as feminine?

A 4.6 300hp GT is nice, but its about 80 foot pounds short of being able to compete with next DCX and GM offerings.

 

Let me retract my statement and change it to value for the money.

If you want a lot of HP at a low price, you have to cut corners (ie, interior refinement, fit & finish). That is what really ruined the Camaro to me. It will be a challenge to build a refined 400HP, IRS sports coupe and have the same price point as the stang.

 

Yeah, for what the Mustang GT is (and even the V6) for their price points....
....pretty darn good....

 

Plus don't forget....can you tell the difference between a 1993 Camaro and a 2002 Camaro?

Other than lights and small features, GM kept the same body for 10 yrs. That'll kill any car in itself, between 93-02 the Stang had 3 body styles.

 

What about 1979-1993...the stang had the same body for 14 years.

 

It will be interesting to see where GM and D-C place their new 'muscle' cars market-wise. If they're aiming for the Pony car market, those cars had better start at under $20K to compete. Otherwise Ford will keep smiling and sailing while the Mustangs fly off of the lots almost as fast as they can make them.

Ford is finally getting out of the 'rest on our laurels' approach, like D-C has and GM is still working on. Cars will only get better -- more refined, lighter weight, better gas mileage -- yet still be affordable. That's the beauty of technology.

 

I would suspect that a 6.2L offering in any near future Camaro would likely be Chevy's GT500, SRT8 competitor. Everyone seems fearful of 28k SRT8 Challengers and 27k 6.2L IRS Camaro's, but nothing we have seen from either company supports these claims. DCX wants about 30k for a base Charger V-8 and Chevy was asking near 35k for a loaded Z28 SS back in 2002. I would be willing to bet that a base Hemi V-8 Challenger is going to be a nearly 30k proposition at best and that a 27k Camaro V-8 is going to be packing something much closer to the current 5.3L V-8 than a 6.2L V-8.

I agree that Ford needs to remain competitive at worst and hoperfully maintain superiority. I would like to see cleaner, more aggresive styling, and improved interior with a telescoping wheel, a 6-speed manual for the GT, IRS, and around 360-380 actual hp fopr the GT by 2009. Of those, for the GT at least, I think the telescoping wheel, improved interior and seats, increased hp and torque, and 6-speed are the most important.

I have as yet seen nothing to indicate that we will not be getting these during the update so I will withhold criticism until that time. As for all the complaining I have seen regarding supercharged mustang motors on this site as of late...if Ford provides us with a near 500hp SC 5.4L to do battle with undoubtedly less powerful 6.2L Z28's and 6.1L SRT8 Challengers I will remain a happy boy, so long as dynamics are competitive.

 

None of which we get in the new Shelby, I'm constrained to point out.

But hey, we DID get the weight increase.

Oink.

 

I wonder if the new Shelby comes with a free Jenny Craig membership?