IMHO in the later 70's GM went the right way, Ford didn't, and we almost lost the Mustang to the superior marobirds of that time. Since then, IMHO, Ford got back to basics and GM has wandered so far out that there is no way I would consider anything they have in their line-up below 40K. I think that they perform marginally, handle terribly, and look like crap. ...IMHO

 

camero is DEAD here's new release
http://www.blueovalnews.com/2005/products/...rog.19mar05.htm

 

AWESOME - I love watching PONIES RUN !!!!

 

I would strongly consider buying a Camaro based on the concept released at the 2006 NAIAS

 

Not me, man..... #^#@% that thing is ugly......

doesn;t know if it wants to be a car or some kind of Lucas vehicle like a snow speeder from Empire Strikes Back......

 

I would not buy a Camaro let alone a Chevy. The concept is OK, but not to my liking.

 

Umm, GTO engine = Vette engine. Samey same. (At least on the 2005.)

 

I wouldn't be able to make that decision until I test drove the Camaro. I couldn't make a decision just based on pictures or specifications. I'm also pretty certain that there would be a supply vs. demand situation just like Ford has experienced with the new Mustang driving up prices for a period of time. Dodge and Chevrolet competition with Ford will be a good thing, as it was when Ford invented the pony car.

 

Ignoring the obvious careats (it's just a concept, how much will it cost, how well will the production version is executed, what will the Stang be like in '09, etc.), but yeah, I would give both the Camaro and Challenger VERY serious considerations presuming the production versions pretty accurately reflect the design and engineering content of the concepts, at prices in the neighborhood of the Stang.

Both offer some of the things I think the Stang skimped on -- six speed trannys and IRS mainly (I'm not a drag racer at all) -- and both have looks at least on par with the Stang (again, they are concepts, so they're not as constrained by productability necessities).

On the other hand, at least the Challenger seems to be a bit, well, Rubinesque in size and mass (and looks a little bit too, a little thick if not quite outright pudgy), which may blunt the benefits of its Hemi and IRS to some degree. And the Camaro's front and rear ends both look a touch awkward in execution in contrast to the more artfully and cleanly done sides.

But yeah, the Mustang's days of being the only fish in the pond are coming to an end in a big way. Hopefully Ford gets a bit more aggressive with their engineering, content and pricing (GT500) to meet this competitive onslaught head on rather than some of the dismissive and condescending equivocating you get out of them now when asked why this or that wasn't done or included.

 

I'll admit, there are some chevys out there I like, but I would never buy a camaro.

 

I'd buy one in a "heartbeat" (get it?) if it were very close to the concept. I've always been a fan of the first gen Camaro's, especially the '69. To me, this is the closest it can get, plus I also see some fourth gen and some c6 vette in the lines as well, so the concept is very appealing. But since it is still a concept and GM is not ready to build one yet, even Lutz said on his blog that GM is still "considering" it for production, I would only consider this as a possible alternative to the Stang and Challenger. I guess we'll have to see if GM goes through with it and offer some great power options before I start running to my local Chevy dealer to place my order.............LS7 powered ZL-1 Camaro

 

Camaro

They'll be fun to beat

 

How will that be fun to beat especially with a 400hp LS2 vs. a 300hp 4.6L Mustang GT?

 

When I'm looking for a new car in a few years

300 HP=35 000
400 HP=A bit more
Chally 400 HP=about the same as the Camaro

It will be an interesting desicion.

 

Well for one thing, I have NOT read anywhere GM is going to definately build a new Camaro. Same for DC and the Challenger. It wasnt all that long ago the DC said the market for 2dr cars is dead. Time will tell.

What made me buy my 05 GT was the body style. This car has soul that no other American car has. (Viper and Vette are awesome bodies, but serious bucks.

I strongly considered a v6, but liked the front fascia and fog lamps, along with the body color rockers, on the GT much better than the V6.

There hasnt been a Mustang since 1973 I have had a hunger for. Thats what sets the 05+ apart from the crowd.

Ive always had a thing for fords, but the havent had much I cared for the looks of them in a few years.

Ive always bought what I could afford and the Mustang is such an outstanding value.

"IF" the Camaro does come to be, you know its gonna have more hp. But will it have soul? The concept while being mostly good looking, just doesnt hit me like the new Mustangs.
"IF" the3 Camaro does come to be, it will be available with a LS1 or LS2 motor. Will be faster than a GT? Yeah, Nothing new here. But the important thing is What will it cost. Seeing the price of the style impaired GTO, a LS2 Camaro will likely start at 33+k. More than a loaded GT.

I wouldnt have a problem considering a new Camaro IF it had that thing that stirs the heart of an automobile afficendo, and IF I could buy it under 30k. So far neither looks to be happening.

 

After seeing the Camro conectpt I was disappointed. Its cool but not as good as it could have been. The Challeneger is cool though. But the Mustang still is best IMHO

 

I'll be in the market around the time the DCX and GM cars are supposed to appear (along with a mighty nice down payment), I love the stang, especially the live axle so having an IRS doesn't put a blip on the radar for me, however with the thought of 6.2 liters putting down 400 hp and 400 ft/lbs. is very enticing. My sincere hope is that Ford is actively pursuing a cost effective retort to the GM and DCX offerings (which can only be done with a big infusion of cubic displacement).

 

For 30-35k and 400hp, IRS, and a few other things, it will still be a steal. If you're comparing price and options, I kinda like to think of an LS2/LSx and IRS equipped fully-optioned Camaro to be like what the 03-04 cobra was a while back...more car for your buck. Remember, that the Mustang GT is the base performance model V8 with a stick axle and 300hp 4.6L that costs less than 30k. Also currently we don't yet know if the Camaro is going to be produced and if it is, which model (Z/28 or SS) will get the best options so it is difficult to get an accurate estimate of the cost.

The point I'm trying to make is that the comparison between the base Mustang GT to a LSx and IRS equipped, fully optioned Camaro is almost like comparing apples to oranges. If you want to make a better comparison, it should be top dog vs. top dog (Shelby GT500 vs. SS).

Maybe in a few years, Ford will not only bump up the perfromance/hp of the GT, but also the price as well, depending on the cost of the parts they use. I hope it does not come to that, because I don't want to pay for a near 35k GT, leave that to the Shelby. Since GM wants a piece of the Mustang pie, then they're going to have to price like the Mustang or else they could have a repeat of the 4th gen situation.

As for the Camaro not having a soul...it has a lot of soul...first gen soul (maybe some c6 vette too). I think it is probably the most appealling Camaro since the '69, which is why I like it.

 

so far I hear the entry level f-bod if produced will bee about 200 bucks more than the entry level mustang but offer more equipment and the V8 car will have 400 HP, Lutz is also going on to say that "so what if the challenger has 35 more HP, we got 100 more HP certified on tap with the Z06" or something to that effect.

So in my mind that means 400 hp 400 ft/lbs. for less than 30k.

Also if you check out CamaroZ28.com a guy by the board name of Red Planet (now Fbod Godfather I think) who works within GM has said several times that the 5th gen's mission is to clean the mustang's clock in every aspect (and the next is blatant bravado) as it always has.

For the bench racers among us, this is most likely what we will see in V8 form in 09 for less than 30k in 2005 err 6 dollars.

1. 6.2 liter OHV V8 producing 400 HP and 400 ft/lbs. of torque.
2. 6 spd manual or 6 spd automatic
3. Strut front suspension with IRS rear
4. 3500 lbs curb weight.

Mustang in current form from now and into the foreseeable future for less than 30k

1. 4.6 SOHC V8 producing 300 hp and 315 ft/lbs of torque
2. 5 speed manual or 5 speed automatic
3. Strut front end with SLA rear
4. 3500 lbs curb weight.

points 2 and 3 are irrelavent to me as I have often said. Especially considering that the 6 speed is a double overdrive which would be awesome in the vaccum of space, but here on terra firma, it is of little real performance benefit, especially in the stoplight brawling that these cars are going to be doing 90+ percent of the time as well as the IRS, that is more for incresaed interior volume and a comfortable ride rather than again, any real performance benefit.

Now what I'd like to see from Ford and the Mustang in 09 for less than 30k

1. 5.4 all alumimum 3v SOHC V8 producing 390+ hp and 390+ ft/lbs of torque
2. 5 speed manual or 5 speed automatic
3. Strut front end with SLA standard, IRS optional
4. less than 3500 lbs curb weight

Its gonna be all about cubes and torque and Ford is down for the count. A six speed would be nice, but I'd rather the first 5 gears be more for performance and the last for loafing rather than 4 for performance and two for loafing. As for an IRS, it offers no real tangible benefit for me other than a nice ride, I'd rather take the durability, low cost for modifiaction and efficiency of an SLA. I get a pretty nice ride out of my 02 GT and I've driven 21 hours straight in it from Kansas to Virgina. Finally there is weight, any reduction in weight would be cool and I'll take incrimental weight reduction, it can be a pound or two here or there.

Ultimately I want a car that can compete with no modification from the factory if and when the new F-bod arrive.

 

I really don't know why Lutz is throwing the ZO6 into the mix at all because it is on a different level than the Camaro (read: NOT A PONY CAR). I think from this statement alone, he might be implying the "corvette rule" that the is in place over at GM, meaning the Camaro cannot exceed the performance level of the base Vette model. IDK?:scratch:

Yea, no doubt, the Mustang in its current from cannot compete with a Camaro if it is built, especially if they are planning to drop the LS2 into their entry level performance model (RS/ Z28). But I don't really worry too much about that IF Chevy goes with a smaller engine, like the 5.3L as rumored on CamaroZ28.com or a detuned LS2. Also, if Ford does bump the HP in the stang, then it is not something to worry about, unless the latter does not happen.

As far as points 2 and 3 of your post...not everyone cares about drag racing. So having an extra gear can help with getting better mileage while cruising on the freeway. IRS can also be a plus for those who use their car as a daily driver and have to drive over harsh pavement. I don't want this to come to an IRS vs. SRA debate again, so I'll just stop there on that and just say that having IRS should just be personal preference.

Now that's a great idea.

Again, I'm not going to debate the whole IRS vs. SRA thing, but I will agree with you that the lower cost for modification and efficiency, as well as the weight reduction is definitely a plus factor.