G8 under $30K
10/2/07, 11:04 PM
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10/2/07, 11:31 PM
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I'm wondering what sort of hit GM's taking by pricing the G8 that low. The smaller, 2-door GTO was marked over that, and wasn't the most profitable vehicle in the world. Shipping prices you can deal with, but they still cut in. on top of that, the echange rate is worse now than it was during the GTO's reign, so that price difference is actually worse than it looks. Are they offering stripped-down base versions with LOTs of costly options? Or are they really swallowing that big of an PPV hit and betting on fantastic sales?
10/3/07, 02:27 PM
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well regardless of profit made by this car......GM definitely has a winner on their hands. And if this car is really as good as we all hope it is, then they certainly are about to have a TON of great customer satisfaction which is exactly what all GM products need right now. So personally i think that alone is worth it. Eventually consumers will start getting interested in GM's other products...... and hopefully GM realizes that and takes advantage of it.
10/3/07, 02:33 PM
#6
well regardless of profit made by this car......GM definitely has a winner on their hands. And if this car is really as good as we all hope it is, then they certainly are about to have a TON of great customer satisfaction which is exactly what all GM products need right now. So personally i think that alone is worth it. Eventually consumers will start getting interested in GM's other products...... and hopefully GM realizes that and takes advantage of it.
GM like Ford needs to build great cars that can make money..and looking to global resources wont fix this problem no matter how badly they want it to. Haoping that Holden or Vauxhall will provide GM's global operations with a magic bullet platform isn't going to fix what is wrong with either company. GM and Ford both live and die by North American and both will have to fix their North American operations if they are to have any hope of a return to serious profitability. If they cannot do that, or fail to see the need for it, then they both may as well close up shop now and be done with it.
10/3/07, 09:32 PM
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I understand why you are stressing the imporance of good product here but GM will ignore ROI at their own peril no matter how good the product. GM is as strapped for cash as any of the major automakers and they simply have no 'well' to go to to cover the cost of a good, or even great, volume platform that is a money loser. When you further consider that the books indicate GM is fielding more than one money loser in their new model crop already, dropping the huge dollars this program cost them on another potentially money sucking platform is bad mojo no matter how much good will it builds.
GM like Ford needs to build great cars that can make money..and looking to global resources wont fix this problem no matter how badly they want it to. Haoping that Holden or Vauxhall will provide GM's global operations with a magic bullet platform isn't going to fix what is wrong with either company. GM and Ford both live and die by North American and both will have to fix their North American operations if they are to have any hope of a return to serious profitability. If they cannot do that, or fail to see the need for it, then they both may as well close up shop now and be done with it.
GM like Ford needs to build great cars that can make money..and looking to global resources wont fix this problem no matter how badly they want it to. Haoping that Holden or Vauxhall will provide GM's global operations with a magic bullet platform isn't going to fix what is wrong with either company. GM and Ford both live and die by North American and both will have to fix their North American operations if they are to have any hope of a return to serious profitability. If they cannot do that, or fail to see the need for it, then they both may as well close up shop now and be done with it.
Good point.....but I'm sure they wont be losing any money on it. If what you said is the case, and im pretty sure it is as is GM, then they wouldnt price this car at a loss. Thinking about it now.... with GM's knowledge I'm sure they know what they are doing in regards to the G8's pricing. They know they cant make that mistake......and if they do then its their own fault for being retarded. I just hope whatever the case that this car helps them......as they can use every bit of that right now.
10/4/07, 10:55 AM
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I think I'll reserve judgement on the G8. It is, afterall nothing unexpected, an iteration of the Zeta platform for Pontiac. Essentially, it is the new Holden Commodore. Not a bad car, but then the previous encarnation was not a bad car either (the Pontiac GTO). But the overall package didn't sell very well here.
According to the Pontiac site, the base GT starts at 29,995, over $4,000 dollars more than a base Mustang GT (25,685, the Premium starts at 26,895 MSRP). It does have a 361-HP GM V8, which is a HP advantage over the base Mustang, though not necessarily a performance advantage. When the GTO (2004) was introduced it had a HP advantange over the new 2005 Mustang GT, 350 vs. 300. Yet, the Mustang was faster, (lighter 3356 lbs).
The Zeta platform is not light. The G8 V6 will weigh in about 3900 lbs. and the V8 will tip the scales at around 4,000 lbs. No body should confuse the G8 with a Lotus Elise. (The new Commodore SS weighs in at 3902.) The G8 has less HP (361 vs 400) than the GTO and weighs more (GTO curb weight 3725).
http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...g8.html?al=157
Pontiac may have a winner here, or Pontiac may have another Holden GTO--a decent package that fails to find a US Market.
According to the Pontiac site, the base GT starts at 29,995, over $4,000 dollars more than a base Mustang GT (25,685, the Premium starts at 26,895 MSRP). It does have a 361-HP GM V8, which is a HP advantage over the base Mustang, though not necessarily a performance advantage. When the GTO (2004) was introduced it had a HP advantange over the new 2005 Mustang GT, 350 vs. 300. Yet, the Mustang was faster, (lighter 3356 lbs).
The Zeta platform is not light. The G8 V6 will weigh in about 3900 lbs. and the V8 will tip the scales at around 4,000 lbs. No body should confuse the G8 with a Lotus Elise. (The new Commodore SS weighs in at 3902.) The G8 has less HP (361 vs 400) than the GTO and weighs more (GTO curb weight 3725).
http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...g8.html?al=157
Pontiac may have a winner here, or Pontiac may have another Holden GTO--a decent package that fails to find a US Market.
10/4/07, 12:12 PM
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Maybe I thought of the G8/GTO comparison because the GTO and G8 have a lot more in common than the G8 and a Ford Mustang.
Both cars are iterations of the Holden Commodore.
Both are RWD, V8 offerings from GM, based on Australian products.
Both are/were marketed by Pontiac.
Why not compare them, if they share common components, orgins, and marketing? Sedans and coupes are not mutually exclusive of a platform. Afterall, the new Camaro will not be a 4 door sedan, yet it will share the same (Zeta) platform as the G8.
10/4/07, 12:19 PM
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Needs to be more Astony
10/4/07, 12:32 PM
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Charger has a better name, more aggressive looks, a better marketing campaign, and better brnd equity. Plus, Charger will benefit from people coming into Dodge lots looking at the Challenger. I doubt there's alot of Solstice shoppers who'd consider a G8. The Ponty is indeed a better car objectively, but that's no gaurantee of sales.
Next year might be a good time to pick up a slightly used Charger SRT8, that has been traded for a Challenger.
10/4/07, 12:49 PM
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What comparison would you suggest?
Maybe I thought of the G8/GTO comparison because the GTO and G8 have a lot more in common than the G8 and a Ford Mustang.
Both cars are iterations of the Holden Commodore.
Both are RWD, V8 offerings from GM, based on Australian products.
Both are/were marketed by Pontiac.
Why not compare them, if they share common components, orgins, and marketing? Sedans and coupes are not mutually exclusive of a platform. Afterall, the new Camaro will not be a 4 door sedan, yet it will share the same (Zeta) platform as the G8.
Maybe I thought of the G8/GTO comparison because the GTO and G8 have a lot more in common than the G8 and a Ford Mustang.
Both cars are iterations of the Holden Commodore.
Both are RWD, V8 offerings from GM, based on Australian products.
Both are/were marketed by Pontiac.
Why not compare them, if they share common components, orgins, and marketing? Sedans and coupes are not mutually exclusive of a platform. Afterall, the new Camaro will not be a 4 door sedan, yet it will share the same (Zeta) platform as the G8.
Honda Odyssey and Ridgeline share platform and engine. Would anyone compare them? I don't think so. Or Ford T-Bird and Lincoln LS? I don't think anyone would compare them either.
10/4/07, 01:38 PM
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If you saw a headline,
Pontiac introduces a new, RWD performance oriented V8, built on a platform by GM's Holden subsiduary in Australia.
One would have to read the article to determine if is a brand new article referencing a Pontiac G8, or dates back to 2004 and refernces a GTO.
The Pontiac GTO was offered by Ponitac to offer RWD, V8 performance to its product line, filling a niche left with the demise of the F-body twins. Are you claiming that G8 GT is not intended to fill that niche left vacant when Pontiac discontinued the GTO?
10/4/07, 02:01 PM
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I don't understand why you object so vorciferously to a GTO/G8 comparison. I don't think I follow your logic with the Odessey/Ridgeline argument. Does Honda market them to fill the same niche? Did Ford intend the T-Bird to be the Ford trim of the LS? Yet Pontiac does intend to market the G8 GT as a RWD, V8-powered sports offering, based on an Australian platform. JMO but that sounds like "DéjÃ* vu, all over again". Wasn't that exactly how the GTO was marketed, a RWD, V8-powered sports/performance machine, based on an Australian platform?
If you saw a headline,
Pontiac introduces a new, RWD performance oriented V8, built on a platform by GM's Holden subsiduary in Australia.
One would have to read the article to determine if is a brand new article referencing a Pontiac G8, or dates back to 2004 and refernces a GTO.
The Pontiac GTO was offered by Ponitac to offer RWD, V8 performance to its product line, filling a niche left with the demise of the F-body twins. Are you claiming that G8 GT is not intended to fill that niche left vacant when Pontiac discontinued the GTO?
If you saw a headline,
Pontiac introduces a new, RWD performance oriented V8, built on a platform by GM's Holden subsiduary in Australia.
One would have to read the article to determine if is a brand new article referencing a Pontiac G8, or dates back to 2004 and refernces a GTO.
The Pontiac GTO was offered by Ponitac to offer RWD, V8 performance to its product line, filling a niche left with the demise of the F-body twins. Are you claiming that G8 GT is not intended to fill that niche left vacant when Pontiac discontinued the GTO?
The GTO is yet to come for the pony car wars.