With all the hoopla about Ford reinventing itself with the legends of the past are they messing things up?

America use to dominate the sports and muscle car scene. A few things come to my mind as they redesign these legends.

1. Is Ford getting the right engine in the Shelby and GT (40)? Shouldn't the GT get the V-10 and the new Shelby Cobra Roadster get a V8?

2. Is there marketing approach sound? Shouldn't the Shelby Roadster go against the Vette and Viper, while the GT (40) be a Enzo slayer?

3. Shouldn't the performance level on the Mustang be raised to ward of the competitors which already build quick cars, like Mercedes AMG55, BMW M3, Suburu WRX STI and EVO's...etc... What about the price to performance ratio of these other cars vs. the Mustang?

I know Ford has now admitted it will redesign the shape of the Shelby Roadster (Thank God), but are they missing things...like modern enhancements. I know Ford and GM went in together on a new 6-speed transmission factory costing hundreds of millions. So maybe they can build a descent 6 speed manual and auto to put inside these new cars?

Any thoughts?

 

I agree about the engines, I've always felt they need to swap (and I've heard from a few fomoco engineers that feel the same way) but there is nothing we can do about it.

Is anyone going to buy a 500,000 dollar ford to fight the Enzo?

Seems the Mustang should still beat those other cars in performance/dollar value (srt-4 not included).

Stinger

 

1. Yes they are right.
2. Yes it is right.
3. Uhh hello ever seen the price of those cars?


Who the heck is going to pay $500,000 for a new Ford GT? Maybe that much for 3 or 4. Check your prices again!

 

Don't count on the Cobra getting the V-10 IMO. Ford is apparently readying a big V-8 to replace the V-10 and the supposed introduction of this motor coincides very closely with the likely debut of a Shelby Cobra. No doubt a DOHC 427ci V-8 would have be the "best" motor for either car and the real possibly exists for the Cobra tol get one. However, given the other two options I would prefer the blown 5.4L to the V-10 any day. But, that is just my opinion.

The fact that Bill Ford seems to dislike the V-10 (at least I am not alone) only lends the big V-8 rumour more legitimacy. Also, it is a very old rumour that still has legs which counts for something. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

As far as product placement. Best case scenario for me would be for the Shelby line to re-emerge as a supercar divison of Ford. An entry-level mid-engined King Cobra would make a nice entry level car, with a small block Cobra and a big block Cobra over it in the lineup respectively. Prices ranging from about 80 large to 250 large would be about right. I can think of no better American answer to Ferrari than the car that originally did it in the sixties.

I also think having a GT in the Ford lineup from time to time would be nice. Ford seems to "do all things automtive" and a Ferrari slayer here is nice too. And yes, next time around I think the GT would be better positioned higher in the range. But, I would think more like a 250,000 dollar price tag on a car that can trounce an Enzo rather than an Enzo-like price tag.

 

I think Ford would sell the new GT even if it was 500,000 dollars truth be told. A big block DOHC V-8, about 100-150 more hp and a 250,000 dollar price tage seems about right to me next GT go-round if it happens. Frankly, if you can afford to drop 150 large on a pure toy it is very likely that you can drop 250 large on one. Not to mention, GT's will undoubtedly go for more than their 150,000 dollar MSRP anyway.

As for the price tags on those other cars. The Viper, Z06, and M3 are apparently targets for the next uber-Stang so I would advise learning to love price tags above 40 grand at least.

 

The GT is going on sale this year. The V10 does not exist in production form yet, so it was not even an option for the GT.

And the Cobra may or may not get the V10 either. I don't think the business case has been made yet. It remains to be seen what will happen.

The Enzo is not even in production anymore. It was a very short run car.
Additionally, the Ford has said all along that the Ferrari 360 was the performance and price target for the GT, not the Vette and Viper.

"AMG55" (my presumption is that you mean CLK) and M3 are much more expensive than any Mustang and perfomance is no better than the current SVT Cobra. When the new SVT Mustang arrives in mid 2006, it will more than likely best those cars by an even wider margin, while still costing less.

WRX STI and Evo are arguably a lot closer to Mustang Territory. But those are still 30k cars.

The Ford/GM 6-speed is an auto and is for FWD applications only. Regardless, it is not being designed to handle nearly the torque a GT or Shelby Cobra would require. As for a decent 6-speed manual, what's wrong with the T56 being used in the SVT Cobra, Vette, and Viper?

 

The only real problem I have with comparing those cars to the stang. Is that those are performance versions (For lack of a better word) of those cars. AMG, M, and STI are all the in house tuning divisions of those car manufacturers. So they should be compared to the Cobra. Though I think they would still lose out in the price catagory.

 

I have zero problem with the Cobra getting a V8 again. But I don't want the V10 line to die. The Team's put alot of work into the 351, 427, and Cobra editions of the V10 and shown it to be a workable and mean little cuss of an engine =-). Mr. Ford, throw it in the New Lightning or give it to the GT, Please!!!!!!1

 

If you read the reviews of the new GT, it is the ferrari slayer that the person who started this thread claims ford needs to build. It was designed to be in the same price range as a 360 modena, and whip it performance wise. There was an article written comparing a 911 twin turbo, GT and ferrari 360 I think. It wasn't even close, they said the only cars that they would put up against the GT would be an Enzo, or saleen s7. The only complaints I recall about the car were its uncomfy seats and some other trivial interior detail that they said ford was going to work on. The new GT is styled after the mkI, which was powered by a 289, I think the v10 would make more sense in a year or two if they do some changes to bodywork and make it look more like a mkII. It would be nice if ford could afford to spend its resources making cars that appeal to such a small group of people, but realistically they need to be far more concerned with building a car that can compete with the honda accord and toyota camry in sales. I believe there were 131 total gt40s built, with only a handful of those being the mkIII (street version), so to say that fords 1000+/yr production GT needs to be this or that is really just a lot of whining about nothing. Name another american mfg that has ever built anything like the GT as a production car? The next closest thing would be Dodge with their viper, and who would want a viper over a gt? In the past you had the ZL1 and L88 vettes, a couple hundred of one, and 2, yes count them 2 ZL1's. I seriously doubt there is enough volume to be had in the ultra high performance sports car market to spend the time and money to develope a whole slew of options with the cheapest retailing at the above suggested 80k. If ford did what is being suggested here and started fretting about not having a car that would handle an Enzo easily and cost half as much, and be in a stable with 20 other performance cars priced between 80-250k I would submit that they are on crack. How many of us here could buy a car priced in that range, that was purely a toy? I couldn't, and I am willing to bet that the number of people who could are not numerous enough to justify the R&D costs to develop several new vehicles in that range. The cobra may happen, but one if the biggest reasons it might is that it can share so many pieces with the already finished GT, if it weren't for that it wouldn't even be a possibility.

 

To correct my original post as noticed by "Mkoesel"...I did mean SLK55...and to add the Caddy V series with the LTS engine. Although these cars tend to shift into a slightly higher dollar group the performance has never been so high on luxery sedans.

The Mustang was the car that setoff the Muscle Car Era. At that time there were "NO" other cars that could touch the Mustangs, Cuda's, Camaro's..etc. I'm talking sedans...not sports cars.

A muscle car should still be the "King" of the roads to these luxery cars. The GT Mustang needs to have NO LESS than 350-375hp, while the special editions Mustangs could get the 400+hp Cammer and the SVT Mustangs "Cobras" could get a Supercharged Engine in the 475-500hp range.

The Ford Lightening Truck could be in the 500hp range.

The Shelby Roadster should get a 427 V-8 in be 575-600hp range.

The GT (40) should get the V-10 in the 650-700hp range.

Come on that Mercedes Beast with the V-12 is darn fast for a porker luxery sedan. It just seems to address many of the people opinions here. The GT (40) is the Halo car...the supreme beast...next the Shelby Roadster, then the specialty Mustangs and last Classic GT Mustang.

The 4.6L GT Mustangs have been so under powered. Yes, a Dodge 4-banger SRT is kicking its hiney. THAT MAKES ME MAD! I believe the refinement in the new Mustang chassis will definetly equal better traction meaning, better 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.

Maybe, I'm off base with these suggested HP groups and Ford marketing.

 

All signs point to the Shelby Cobra "replacing" the Ford GT at the end of it's run. Now how can Ford out show the incredible GT when it is replaced by cheaper Shelby? Simple, just use a V10 instead of a V8 and go after the Viper market. Sounds logical to me. If they don't know what engine is going to be used in the Shelby yet then that means it is a long way off anyway and it is probably the replacement car.

Don't count on any Mustang GT's running around with almost 400 HP and being less than 30K. It sells more volume than the SVT Cobra or Limited Editons. Ford likes their CAFE numbers where they are and I'm surprised they improved the power as much as they did. i was expecting like a 20 Hp gain to 280.

 

Yep, I remember reading something about the GT being competition for the 360 and the Gallardo specifically

 

Lock or move this thread dan-o!


please

 

Moved yes, locked....no reason really.

 

Now I'm really confused. I said CLK55 in my post. That's the Mercedes coupe that is close to the Mustang in size and perfomance (but costing over twice as much). An SLK55 is a 2-seat roadster and in a totally different market. Likewise, the CTSv is a sedan, as you mention, and also in a totally different market.

Sure there are some fast luxury sedans, roadsters, coupes, etc. out there. But you pay for all that power. You seem to suggest the Mustang should be the fastest car on the road, regardless of cost. Its just not going to happen. There will alway be something faster. Even in the 60s there were Astons, Jaguars, Ferraris, etc that could spank the Mustangs of the time.

Even with all that power, there will still be plenty of more expensive cars that drive circles around them.

As people ar pointing out, the GT and Shelby Cobra most likely won't even be on the market at the same time, so ranking them as you do is somewhat pointless.

Also, as people point out, the GT already does spank basically every car on the road, including many that triple its price. So there's your halo car.

Turbo-d 4-bangers offer a lot of bang for the buck, true. But RWD, V8 is just as strong a selling point.

The marketing has thus far been great, so I don't think there's much you are I or any other Joe armchair marketer is going to do to help it. As for the power, they have done great while meeting desired pricepoints. It would be nice if you could just put a 500hp V8 into every car, but the regulations and other issues prevent it. There's a lot more to building production cars than just putting in the biggest motor you have on teh parts shelf.

 

The GT is putting down 565 at the ground, I think it's a pretty good slayer of just about anything outside of a Bugatti or ultra-performance Ferraris and Maseratis, and all for a fraction of the cost. I have no complaints about the GT.