Hollywood_North GT

Looks like Chevy general manager Ed Peper is feeling pretty sure of himself when it comes to the new Corvette ZR-1.

Story.

Evil_Capri

There's going to be some great comparison articles very soon.

Slims00ls1z28

On paper it has the bones to back it up. I agree Can't wait to see what level it actually competes on.

Strickland

Performance wise I'm sure the ZR1 is going to be very high on the charts but what about the interior and such. The high end supercars its compared with are pretty lush... should be interesting to see regardless.

jsaylor

That is exactly what I was thinking. No matter how fast a car might be you can only go so low rent on the inside before you get called out on it. And the Vette's duds were questionable even in the 75k Z06, a 100k+ ZR1 will no doubt prove more problematic.

Hollywood_North GT

Well, the new upscale interior option on the regular C6 (4LT package, which includes stitched two-tone leather on the instrument panel and doors) has been getting lots of praise, so if that is standard on the ZR-1, it might pass muster.

Common complaints with the 'Vette are poor seats, however.

Still, ever sat inside a Ferrari? Nice materials choice...but VERY spartan design.

jsaylor

Better? yes. Good? No. The upgraded interior is only 'good enough' for the standard Vette and even then you have to be willing to opt for a 10k option package to get it. In a 100k car the interior is unacceptable upgrade or not.

Indeed.

Yes, but even as you point out, spartan and cheap are two wholly different things. Even the fundamentalist Lotus Exige isn't cheap inside, although it is amazingly spartan. On the other hand the Vette doesn't try to be spartan, but it is amazingly cheap.

Slims00ls1z28

The ZR1 supposedly has a "luxury package" option which from what I've read is a step up over the standard vette. But with ultra expensive bits like yards of true carbon fiber body parts, ceramic rotors, titanuim engine bits if you lavashed the interior like that then you'd probably end up with a 120K+ price tag. The parts list reads like that of many supercars. On paper it would be a drivers race vs an Ferrari Enzo (650 hp @ 3000lb vs 620 hp 3300 ? lb). It would smoke most other lesser exotics. Who honestly cares how "cheap" the interior is? If you want a car with this performance with a non cheap interior you are going to pay at least 2x the price tag on it. About the cheapness though. Saying this from experience or magazine testing? Whats cheap? 89 Camaro cheap? 95 mustang cheap? 2000 Lexus es300 cheap? I highly doubt it, its not 1985 anymore, cheap maybe next to a Mercedes, BMW ok so what theres not a BMW or Mercedes that can touch it AMG or M series. Honestly that excuse to me is :gay: . It is not going to be like a 85 Vette, or a 91 Civic. You won't sit in it not knowing what it is and barf, if you did you would not be driving a mustang you'd be in a Benz. If that is the only complaint you have go buy a bugatti, Enzo, Carrera GT, or something similar because those are the only things comparable on the parts that count to most of the buyers for it. What do you get for the price? The fastest production Car so far from a large scale us automaker. Gallardo, Porshce turbo, Murcialago, most other Ferraris etc they will see tail lights, and you'd have enough money left over to bathe the whole cockpit in rich connoly leather and still leftovers to buy a house and have a celebrity bash in it. If the interior of this car is the only thing to make you spend much more for comparable performance you are not an enthusiast you are an elitist. Bet money Jay Leno buys one as will many otherws who have money and are true enthusiasts.

For the record I'm not trying to sound pointed or fanboyish in anyway but most of these arguments are the same stuff I get sick of hearing from that caviar snob on top gear. Sure he owned a Ford GT for a while but now his criticism of it make me just want to stuff some brie up his nose and a toothbrush in his mouth.

jsaylor

When discussing the issues with the Corvette people tend to complain that comparisons to cars like the 911, Ferrari, etc. aren't fair....and they'd be right. The only problem with that argument is that you don't have to go to nearly that extreme to genuinely shame the Vette's interior. Compared to a Honda S2000, Honda Accord, BMW 3-Series (any BMW 3-Series mind you), or even the former Pontiac GTO every Corvette interior currently available feels like the automotive equivelant of slumming. I don't expect Audi execution or Mercedes quality but I do expect something better than what I can find in a Hyundai, and more than one Hyundai has better interior materials usage than a base Vette.

Even worse the seats are unbelievably bad, and that is no stretch. How difficult is it to call JCI and get a decent set of seats ordered up for the Vette? I honestly cannot think of a 2-door sports coupe/sports car that isn't an economy car or close to it with noticeably worse seats, and that amazes me. And this is no small problem since you logically have to sit in the seat to drive the car. I'm an elitist because I wont buy or applaud a fast car that I would literally be miserable sitting in and which has such terrible materials usage and fitment that I have to go to cars half the price to find an equivelant? Put bluntly that's ricer logic, and the notion that putting up with something so ridiculous somehow makes one an enthusiast is laughable. It is inexcusable that GM simply refuses to address such a basic problem in their flagship car.

The problem with the Vette is that, while the price tag has taken the Vette out of the price range of a lot of rednecks, it hasn't yet managed to take all of the redneck out of the Vette. The last vestiges of the 70's and eighties are clearly evident every time you open the door or, even worse, sit in the car. And so long as GM continues to address the Vette's interior as though nobody buying the car is endowed with decent eyesight or remotely concerned with being tolerably comfortable they will continue to alienate a lot of enthusiasts.

ScottyBoy302

A+ on the rant!


Im not too picky about the interior if itll get me a car thatll run with half million dollar exotics at a fraction of the price. I really had no problems with the interior of my buddys C6Z anyways, and although itd be nice if they came with some better seats, how big of a deal is it to order some?

Slims00ls1z28

I'll have to agree to disagree on alot of this. A GTO's interior might feel better than a Vette but the vette does not feel like "slumming" one of my customers 2000 Lexus es300's feels like slumming, 7 years old and it looks way worse than my Camaros and my Camaro has alot of its engine parts on the inside of it. Fit an finish is not awful on the later model vettes. Is it porshce like or BMW like? No but it's not near or even close to how "bad" as you make it out to be. I've been in a C6 and wasn't awed like my GTO's true enough but I didn't look at the C6 and go wow how awful either. An s2000 (been in one of those as well) will make you go this is nice but won't make you go wow that vette makes me want to yak. The seats seem to be a common hit and OK for you I can see your point there and can somewhat aagree. I personally did not find them uncomfortable though. Will the interior feel like another 100K vehicle? I have no clue. The Gm release did say it was improved much over the Z06 so I'd have to guess much closer but I'll not buy the whole hyundai comparo a bit. I'd be willing to bet 90% of those on this forum or any other save for a porsche, BMW, Mercedes etc based would agree with what you say either. I'm very sure our resident vette owner would not agree as well. Is it up to your standards? Maybe not. I will still stick to the bet that Jay Leno will not agree as well. The top gear guy will but he admittedly states that he will pay extra for a BMW emblem alone even if a mirror competitor is tested.

A base c6 is in no way as poorly finished as even the best 70's or 80's or even 90's vette. While I'll grant you it's not porsche or BMW it does not have to be. Hell even new hyundais aren't as bad as you make this out to be. Again to understand your reasoning are you critiquing from actually sitting in one or from some sort of media?

jsaylor

Yes, I've been in and driven a C6 Corvette. I've also got behind the wheel but butt time in Volvo R cars, Porsche 911's, Porche 928's, RX7's, Supra's, the list goes on. Because of this I am seriously jaded, and if an aspect of a particular car stinks I will call that car out on it reputation, performance, and badging aside.

That said, the Vette's interior is every bit as bad as I make it out to be. And it isn't just fit and finish/materials usage. Ergonomics are okay at best, and the design isn't going to make many converts based on style either. In the base Vette this is tolerable, even with the horrible seats, but the minute this car crosses 50-55k in coupe form no amount of performance is going to make this pass muster.

What I don't understand is GM's obsession with making ever faster versions of the Vette when the Z06 is plenty fast enough already. If the goal here is to build cred and increase goodwill toward GM they might be well advised to spend some of the money they are throwing at faster versions at a better standard interior, better seats, and a steering setup that can be mentioned in the same breath as BMW or Porsche without inducing laughter. (I've not driven the C6.5 which has a revised steering rack, but the improvements can't be too sweeping here or you couldn't get the auto press to shut up about it) You would be hard pressed to find anybody criticizing the Vette because the cars aren't fast enough, so maybe GM would dop well to actually address what enthusiasts are critical of as it relates to the C6.

Hollywood_North GT

I agree with you that the Vette interior needs further improvements, but I think you may be overselling this whole issue a bit. Consider >>

The auto press actually didn't shut up when the C6.5 came out; most were universally praiseworthy of the incremental refinements in power output, steering feel and overall handling. As to the interior upgrade - it may not be perfect, but it does demonstrate that GM is aware of the problem and taking steps to make whatever improvements they can to the current car without fully redesigning the interior (which they're never going to do in the middle of a model run).

I think the sort of interior many of us would like to see will show up in the C7, given GM's new emphasis on interiors and the hard work they're putting into their other important vehicles, like the CTS and Malibu, for example.

Slims00ls1z28

I see your point and would guess your sentiment on interior in your admittedly "jaded" posh tastes. I'm merely saying to the average joe or even more than just the average joe, will not have near as many if any gripes about it. Now a 100K vette brings it out of average joe territory, however the ZR1's interior, according to them of course, is supposedly much more luxurious and "driver friendly". So you'd have to wait until it is released to make final judgement on it. Guess being on the opposite spectrum than you I'd probably make little reservations unless it is just extremely bad. My biggest gripe comes with age. a 2000 honda and impala in 2000 was probably a runaway on ergonomics and materials usage but problem being there is most time I find they don't last worth a **** unless cared for regularly.

I'd drive my go cart stiff, 3600 stalled, 4.11 geared with clicking locker, roll up windows, cloth interior, no cruise abs, tcs, and loud true duals to Alaska if for some need I just wanted to, you'd probably only want to be in it going down the strip or hitting the track. Yours might be more indicitive on one in the market for a 100K car however hold final reservations on it until it is released. Then by all means if you find it "horrible" then I will respect your judgement. For me, it could have a park bench as long as the guy next to me in the Ferrari ducks his head at a light knowing he can't do anything with it. I'd probably be in a porsche saying wheres the **** cup holder or how much did that small piece of woodgrain crap cost.

Knight

Most people that buy ferraris don't care if a supped up a camaro or vette is faster.

99% of those people buy it as a status symbol.

I could care less about interior niceness. But if GM wants to get good press from magazines and get people to buy the vette that would normally buy a ferrari then it does need to make the interior better even though someone like me could care less. But i am not GMs market since i can no where near afford a $100k car.

hi5.0

Re: ZR1... GM can "bring it" and the keys and title - straight to my driveway, please!

clockworks

Disagree, disagree, agree, don't know. To be fair, I haven't sat in a 2005+ Accord, but the ones prior to that have terrible economy car interiors.

To be honest, I like the Vette's interior save two things: the radio and hvac. They look 100% out of place with the rest of the car's interior. Everything else looks smooth and sleek, then you have these **** ***** and cheap plastic that aren't even the right shade of black to fit in with the rest of the car. It's gawd awful. The worst part about it is that even if you get an aftermarket nav unit, you've only solved half the problem because the hvac still looks like ****.

Hehe, I'll always fight ya on this one. My gf and I love the seats. We only road trip in the Vette cuz she says it's a more comfortable car than her 2003 Civic. She also claims that the Vette gets better hwy mpg than her car.


Back to topic. The Vette's mission statement is to bring to supercar performance to the average joe (i.e. me). Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a "better" interior... but not at expense of
a) the car being in my price range.
b) the satisfaction of having a higher performing car than everyone else at the track.

The ZR1 is for people like me: working guys who one day might save up enough pennies to afford one by the skin of their teeth... and when I finally get one, I better **** be sure that I can say, "... but it'll smoke your Ferrari."

Now... if your agrument is "They should be able to create a higher quality interior with only an insignificant price increase." Then hell yeah.

jsaylor

While I obviously don't agree with everything you've said I respect your opinion. That said, while the run of the mill Vette might be for the blue collar guy who has saved his pennies the Z06 is pushing it inb this respect to say the least and the ZR1 is absolutely out of blue collar territory but for exceptional circumstances. Six digit price tags are super-car territory monetarily speaking.

Precisely my point. GM could easily give every Vette a world class interior for less than 1k more per car at their cost...no question about it. At that price it might not best or meet Audi's and Porsche's but the difference wouldn't be nearly so vast as it is. The fact that they choose not to do so obviously indicates that this isn't, or hasn't been, a priority for them.

My advice? let the guys who drew up the duds for the new CTS have a crack at C7.

clockworks

Yeah... I agree, mostly. I just think that 70k is *just* within reach of the general public (see Corvette Forum's Z06 section and see how many people have 10 year loans, hehe), whereas 10-15 years ago it wouldn't have been. I think in 15 or 20 years, 100k might be within reach of "normal" people.

You know what I'm saying, inflation and all that.