Hollywood_North GT

A great example of horrendous plastic in the Stang is the center stack, particularly the twin 'beams' on either side of the stereo and HVAC controls. That stuff is on par with some of the cheapest plastics used in cheap Chinese toys; easily scratched and blemished. You won't find THAT stuff in the Accord interior, believe me.

The Stang uses cheap, hard plastics throughout the interior. Arguing that the Accord interior is just as crude as the Mustang's is like arguing that the Earth is flat - sure you can, but why would you take a detour into fantasyland?

The Mustang interior is what it is...no getting around it.

Vermillion06

I can say from driving my S197 daily for the last year and half and treating it as well-cared-for commuter rather than a pampered garage queen that the plastic on the sides of the center stack DOES NOT "scratch or blemish easily" under normal everyday use. Saying it's "par with some of the cheapest plastics used in cheap Chinese toys" is a really deingrating exaggeration.

And after taking a detour to realityland and riding in and driving a 2007 Accord for a week, I can tell you that the plastic over the instrument panel in the Accord feels like the exact same material.
The Accord uses just as much hard plastic as an S197 does in it's interior. But somehow a daintly little grain pattern and the Honda name makes it "expensive" or "high quality" hard plastic. And I've been told oh so many times "soft touch" plastic equals quality?
The Mustang's interior isn't crude. It's quite decent.
But there is no escaping the fact that there is just as much hard plastic in the Accord's interior as the Mustang's. The door panels, dash, A,B, C pillar trim, console -- all have hard plastic. The Accord does have super pillowy padded arm rests, I'll give it that. But my elbows aren't so dainty that I'm trading my Mustang in for an Accord.
Take the veneer of the "Honda=quality" reptutation off and look at the interior an Accord and there's lot of hard plastic(as much as there is in a Mustang). The Accord also had some tiny intermittant squeaks and rattles in the dash and rear window shelf over rough roads. That's not fantasy. That's reality. Hard plastic is something we have been told over and over by the automotive press equals "cheap".

But I'm not saying the Accord is not a nice car. If it were ice cream an Accord would definitely be vanilla; a Mustang would be rocky road.

kevinb120

They have no torque for torque steer. I sold Acuras for a year and have driven them hundreds of times. Not to mention seeing dozens of used and our entire loaner fleet was TSX's so I also saw them with wear and tear. There is NOTHING special about that car, should cost 24k MSRP, 26 with nav, tops. Its a cash cow for Acura. The Mazda 3 gives it a run for its money in driving dynamics, although you can opt for real power with that one so its really not fair to compare the 'speed 3 to such a weak car. If you are referring to rattles, easily scratched plastic, leather wear or how thin the metal is and succeptable to rock and door dents, I don't know what to tell you there, because the TSX is no exception. And like all 4 banger hondas, the engines make a lot of racket with some miles on them. Better car for less money(although no psudo-'luxury' brand name)- Subaru Legacy GT Limited.

Honda is stuck in FWD land, Acura products are outclassed by Infinity, MB, and BMW. Why get a TL or TSX when you can go down the street to Infinity. They do offer giveaway prices on Acuras to keep them moving though.

Hollywood_North GT

At the end of the day, the Mustang will continue to get knocked and ridiculed by more people than not in both the public and the media for the hard, cheap plastics used in the interior...and rightfully so - it needs improvement.

You are, of course, entitled to your viewpoint, but that does not necessarily make it so, any more than my believing in the tooth fairy means she actually exists.

Hollywood_North GT

Then why are so many FWD 4-bangers constantly maligned in the media for "torque steer"? There's a difference between a small amount of torque - relative to what we Mustang owners consider "enough" - and none at all.

The RSX was one of those rare FWD coupes that you could wind out hard, take a corner, and there wasn't any torque steer or bunny hopping. That is brilliant engineering, regardless of whether or not one has a "urinate on Honda" avatar or bumpersticker.

Vermillion06

Oh really... Here is how the Mustang did in JD Power's APEAL study


for some perspective, here is how the Accord did in the APEAL study


You keep avoiding the fact that the Accord has as much hard plastic in its interior as the Mustang does. That is not opinion.
What happened to "hard plastics = cheap, 'soft-touch' plastics = high quality goodness" mantra??? Why does that not apply to the Accord?

97svtgoin05gt

kevinb120

And its all going by the 'media' and its opinions, kinda like magazine racing. If I haven't spent extended periods of time in a certain vehicle, I will say so. I've seen every one discussed here new, used, and driven and gone over them in detail in person in all kinds of various conditions. And how did the TSX become an RSX? The RSX was actually not a bad car for the money(nothing stellar inside though, about on par with civic), unlike other acura products that are all outclassed per $$ by better products.

A loaded Mazda 6 is a better FWD car(let alone the Mazdaspeed 6 will crush it but it's hard to find one-yet still at the same price point as the TSX) and the Subaru Legend GT is a superb AWD turbo that's the poor-man's audi in the same exact price bracket with all the same features(and some like heated seats have more settings and a power passenger seat can be had) with AWD and more power and a lot more technology. All are about on par with fit and finish, with the Subie possibly being the best of the bunch(never drove the spec B though). The Subie is one of the best car's nobody has ever heard of. At least you wont see 27 of them in your neighborhood. If I needed to have any more practicality then a Mustang would afford, that would of been the car I got, loaded b-spec LGT. Electronic engine management settings on the fly, REAL brakes-no little platters, VDC, better AWD system then the RL's, and much more for the same money. Acura who sells themselves on 'technology' still has solid brake platters on the rear, even the TL type-s.

As for the rather dated TL, the only thing you have to say is G.

Hollywood_North GT

Yes...really.

Oh boy, here we go.

OK, first off, one JD Powers study does not a consensus make. And I never criticized style, features, instrument panel or comfort in the Stang. On those items, I too, would score the Mustang highly. The interior design is also more stylish overall. I was talking about grades of plastic, remember?

Just because you keep repeatedly stating that, doesn't make it fact.

I would respectfully put forward for consideration that you avoid doing this...



...before undertaking comparative analyses between the grades of plastic used in the Mustang vs other cars.

Just a gentle suggestion.

Hollywood_North GT

I mentioned the RSX in my first post above.

The RSX interior was most definitely better than the Civics of the same year. The variable textures used in the dash were of top notch quality...the white-faced gauges with red readouts were very nice...and the radio controls and switchgear were similarly very good.

And the RSX/TSX to this day both have one of the most acclaimed gearboxes in the industry.

On this I wholeheartedly agree.

kevinb120

I hope you don't equate textures in plastic as some sort of level of quality. The cnc machine cutting the molds doesn't know the difference between a microscopic pebble or a dash covered with thousands of intricate women's breasts for a final texture, it takes the same amount of work for the robot to finish the mold. All of the interior in the RSX is hard plastic. After a few years, the colors don't match so well anymore from panel to panel. Its not terrible, but it sure ain't great, not really even noteable. Very old school with switch block out panels and the reuse of the ancient honda buttons. Still comfy and intuitive to drive though, I do like the car as a whole. I sure as **** wouldn't sit in one and be like wow-look at all this QUALITY! My SVTF Euro package with the Recaro leather seats had it beat for overall finish and comfort though.

Hollywood_North GT

Textures, grain pattern, elasticity of resin, density of the polymer itself, a compound free of fogging, fuming and blooming...

...oh, and that doesn't easily scuff, gouge and scratch.

But one can measure almost anything in scientifically quantifiable terms. What's important is how the textures FEEL to consumers.

For example, on these pages you will see consumer reviews, many from new Mustang owners. Most love the car, but the one common denominator that shows up frequently in the comments is the cheap plastics in the interior, i.e. >>

A little better grade of interior plastic wouldn't kill me.

Some cheap plastic inside.

Fit and finish of cheap plastic interior.

some of the interior cheaply made

Not happy with interior looks cheap could be better.

cheap feeling interior trim

Somewhat cheap interior

Inside could use better materials.

This observation has been oft repeated by both consumers and automotive journalists alike. The concensus? Love the car overall, but interior needs more work. It is what it is...arguing about it won't change reality.

Vermillion06

One JD Powers study is more says a lot more about paying customers think about a product than magazine reviewers or internet pundits.
What does the acronym APEAL stand for?
Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout

"grade of plastic" falls under "Execution" i.e. how the design is executed. If the "grade of plastic" was as horrendous as you say, it sure would have affected how the Mustang scored.

But when you do it's perfectly acceptable?

Just because the facts don't support your viewpoint doesn't mean that you can pretend they don't exist.

Highlighted in yellow in the photo below are the hard plastics in the interior of a 2007 Accord:


What are these highlighted pieces made of if they are not hard plastic? Cookie dough? Magical Honda fairy dust? I pushed on them and they weren't flexible, or padded.

kevinb120, as a guy who has seen and driven tons of these cars, are these yellow highlighted areas hard plastic?

GRAYPNY, as an Accord owner, can you confirm what the yellow highlighted areas in the above photo are made of?


highlighted in yellow in the photo below are the hard plastics in the interior of a Mustang:



Looks like there's about the same amount of hard plastic in both interiors. If "hard plastic=cheap" and "soft-touch=quality", then the Accord interior is as "cheap" as the Mustang. Car and Driver, Motor Trend, etc. don't mention the hard plastics in the Accord when they praise the interior. However, a few non-press people have mentioned it:

I really don't have anything against the Accord. I think it's a nice family car. I'm just pointing out that it as much hard plastic in the interior as a Mustang but doesn't get criticized much for it.

exgto

While I have not driven an 07 Accord, we do own an 05 Accord.

Some of your comments resonate with my observations on our '05. I can sum it up briefly by saying it's a nice car, but it does not particularly impress me.

The interior materials are of good quality, and nicer than what I see in my SRT8 and GT; however, it has a few rattles that really surprised me.

Personally, if it were not for my wife's insistance that we own it, I would not have one in my garage.

Frankly, my opinion is that the common perception of Honda quality is a bit overrated.

Hollywood_North GT

It's OK, don't despair. There have been times when you actually have been right.

Unfortunately, this just isn't one of them.

Hollywood_North GT

Thank you. That was my sole point.

Vermillion06

Thank you. That was my sole point.

StangMahn

Maybe not in their cars... But the Honda CBR 1000 RR motorcycle is faster than you could believe. 0-60 almost as fast as you can shift gears.

Hollywood_North GT

No, actually that was an entirely different point from the one you were trying to make above.

Vermillion06

Senility? Poor reading skills? I know! You've been Step away from the liquor cabinet!