Dex Cool
Thread Starter
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
Joined: May 5, 2004
Posts: 7,190
Likes: 0
From: Orlando(DP!) Florida
I know 90% of you are super lucky ford drivers- But I am curious as to did any of you fall victim to the death cool curse?
It affects GM 3.4 v6 motors- what happens is it eats your intake mainifold gasket, which causes you to go through 2 bottles of coolant a day until its fixed. I went through it and it took out my thermostat, waterpump, hoses,coolant tank and serpentine belt before I rid myself of the curse. Needless, I am a little peeved, GM and Texaco won't admit that its an issue.
OH- and you can flush your system daily, but the radiator is still filled with sludge.That causes fun things to happen like the car registering HOT when its really not.
For years, fast lube operators have been aware of problems associated with the Dex-Cool antifreeze/coolant that has been the factory-fill coolant in General Motors vehicles since 1996. Indeed, several Technical Tips published in these pages as far back as 2001 have shed light on contamination and other issues that, at least from an anecdotal standpoint, seem to plague this type of coolant.
Apparently, lube operators are not the only ones to have noticed.
Class action lawsuits regarding Dex-Cool have been filed in more than eight states, and General Motors, ChevronTexaco and Equilon (Shell Oil Company) have been named as defendants in at least some of these cases.
Dex-Cool is a registered trademark of GM, for coolant that meets GM specification 6277M. Currently, ChevronTexaco and Prestone are the only two suppliers of Dex-Cool coolant.
According to one suit filed in Madison County, Illinois, the Dex-Cool in plaintiffs' vehicles "began to turn into sludge, which accumulated in the vehicle's engine cooling system and radiator."
At the crux of these lawsuits is GM's recommendation that Dex-Cool be changed every five years or 100,000 to 150,000 miles
The suit states that as a result of this 'sludge,' plaintiffs have incurred expenses for cooling system flushes/refills and they "did not receive the benefit of Dex-Cool lasting five years or 150,000 miles."
Initially (for 1996-model year vehicles), GM recommended a service interval for Dex-Cool of five years or 100,000 miles. Beginning with 1997-model vehicles and continuing through today, GM recommends a service interval for Dex-Cool of five years or 150,000 miles.
The suit alleges that GM knew Dex-Cool was a defective product.
"Although GM service bulletins acknowledge that 'sludging' can occur with Dex-Cool if air pockets are present within the cooling system, GM did not develop an airtight cooling system in its vehicles," the Illinois suit alleges, further stating that, "GM has never agreed to inspect or monitor the engine cooling systems, repair vehicles not in warranty, recall vehicles, replace Dex-Cool, change the maintenance schedule to include inspection of the engine coolant system or inform plaintiffs...of the defective and hazardous conditions of their engine coolant system."
Repair costs for problematic Dex-Cool cooling systems are often as much as $1,000 or more.
Most automotive antifreeze/cooling systems in this country use ethylene glycol as the main component in their coolant. Because ethylene glycol is naturally corrosive, however, coolant manufacturers have long used inorganic salts such as borate, phosphate, silicate and other chemicals to prevent automotive cooling systems from rusting and corroding. Most automakers recommend these coolants be changed every three years or 36,000 miles.
In 1996, GM began switching its vehicle fleet to Dex-Cool, an antifreeze/coolant that uses carboxylate or organic acid technology (OAT) as its main corrosion inhibitor compound, instead of inorganic salts. The Illinois lawsuit alleges that this technology causes rust and corrosion to a much greater degree than traditional coolants.
Known for its orange color (to differentiate it from traditional 'green' coolant), Dex-Cool has been factory-installed in more than 35 million cars and light trucks since the 1996 model year.
The problem, several lawsuits say, is that problems with Dex-Cool most often manifest themselves after consumers' vehicles are out of warranty, and GM has refused to offer assistance to vehicle owners who run into these problems. The lawsuits charge that this violates the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.
GM's position is that the technology used in Dex-Cool has been used successfully for many years in Europe. The company contends that carboxylate technology has demonstrated improved corrosion protection, improved heat transfer, increased service life, reduced environmental impact and been a net money saver for users.
The company admits that some models have seen corroded cooling systems, but blames the corrosion on coolant systems that were not maintained by motorists. According to GM, coolant systems whose levels are maintained show almost no corrosion, a finding backed up by comprehensive testing of the coolant. Even cooling systems equipped with traditional coolants will suffer from corrosion if their fluid levels are not maintained, GM asserts.
GM has also stated that recommended service intervals are not warranties.
Still, the lawsuits claim that GM knew there was a problem with Dex-Cool.
"Shortly after vehicles filled with Dex-Cool were sold, GM was presented with data and complaints from customers, its engineers, its dealers, fleet accounts, service technicians and the media of corroded, rusted and clogged radiators, eroded aluminum cylinder heads, eroded water pumps and thermostat housings, rotten and leaking radiator hoses, leaky heater cores and freeze plugs, corroded radiator caps, deposits within the cooling system, damaged and leaky cooling system gaskets, damage to the head gaskets, chronic overheating, damage to the engine, oil in engine coolant system, leaking coolant, deposits on the overflow tank and sludge in the engine coolant system," the Illinois suit alleges, adding that as early as late-2000, GM engineers were observing coolant contamination in several thousand GM off-lease cars less than four years old.
The Illinois lawsuit also said that at a presentation by GM engineers at the 2001 MACS convention in Orlando, Florida, the engineers told attendees that there are cooling system problems in GM vehicles.
The lawsuits are charging GM and other co-defendants with consumer fraud, and asking for "an award of damages, attorneys' fees, costs, pre- and post-judgment interest, and such relief as the court deems just and proper."
At question in many of these lawsuits is whether GM and other defendants violated state consumer protection laws, whether the Dex-Cool contains an inherent design or manufacturing defect, whether GM vehicles contain an inherent design or manufacturing defect in their cooling systems, whether the defendants should have known about these defects, when they learned of the defects, whether GM and other defendants continued to sell Dex-Cool even after learning of its defects, whether GM and other defendants failed to notify consumers of the defects inherent in Dex-Cool, and whether GM has failed to repair or offer to repair all problems associated with the defective engine coolant.
The anti-Dex-Cool movement is growing, too, with more and more owners of GM vehicles joining these class action lawsuits. Thus far, however, little evidence has been presented proving either side's argument.
Plus, some lawsuits are claiming that Dex-Cool is at least partially responsible for the string of intake manifold gasket failures on GM vehicles equipped with 3.1L or 3.4L V6 engines. For its part, GM has issued a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB 03-06-01-010) that entitles some owners of affected vehicles to a free gasket repair. The service bulletin blames the gasket material, not Dex-Cool, for the problem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It affects GM 3.4 v6 motors- what happens is it eats your intake mainifold gasket, which causes you to go through 2 bottles of coolant a day until its fixed. I went through it and it took out my thermostat, waterpump, hoses,coolant tank and serpentine belt before I rid myself of the curse. Needless, I am a little peeved, GM and Texaco won't admit that its an issue.
OH- and you can flush your system daily, but the radiator is still filled with sludge.That causes fun things to happen like the car registering HOT when its really not.
For years, fast lube operators have been aware of problems associated with the Dex-Cool antifreeze/coolant that has been the factory-fill coolant in General Motors vehicles since 1996. Indeed, several Technical Tips published in these pages as far back as 2001 have shed light on contamination and other issues that, at least from an anecdotal standpoint, seem to plague this type of coolant.
Apparently, lube operators are not the only ones to have noticed.
Class action lawsuits regarding Dex-Cool have been filed in more than eight states, and General Motors, ChevronTexaco and Equilon (Shell Oil Company) have been named as defendants in at least some of these cases.
Dex-Cool is a registered trademark of GM, for coolant that meets GM specification 6277M. Currently, ChevronTexaco and Prestone are the only two suppliers of Dex-Cool coolant.
According to one suit filed in Madison County, Illinois, the Dex-Cool in plaintiffs' vehicles "began to turn into sludge, which accumulated in the vehicle's engine cooling system and radiator."
At the crux of these lawsuits is GM's recommendation that Dex-Cool be changed every five years or 100,000 to 150,000 miles
The suit states that as a result of this 'sludge,' plaintiffs have incurred expenses for cooling system flushes/refills and they "did not receive the benefit of Dex-Cool lasting five years or 150,000 miles."
Initially (for 1996-model year vehicles), GM recommended a service interval for Dex-Cool of five years or 100,000 miles. Beginning with 1997-model vehicles and continuing through today, GM recommends a service interval for Dex-Cool of five years or 150,000 miles.
The suit alleges that GM knew Dex-Cool was a defective product.
"Although GM service bulletins acknowledge that 'sludging' can occur with Dex-Cool if air pockets are present within the cooling system, GM did not develop an airtight cooling system in its vehicles," the Illinois suit alleges, further stating that, "GM has never agreed to inspect or monitor the engine cooling systems, repair vehicles not in warranty, recall vehicles, replace Dex-Cool, change the maintenance schedule to include inspection of the engine coolant system or inform plaintiffs...of the defective and hazardous conditions of their engine coolant system."
Repair costs for problematic Dex-Cool cooling systems are often as much as $1,000 or more.
Most automotive antifreeze/cooling systems in this country use ethylene glycol as the main component in their coolant. Because ethylene glycol is naturally corrosive, however, coolant manufacturers have long used inorganic salts such as borate, phosphate, silicate and other chemicals to prevent automotive cooling systems from rusting and corroding. Most automakers recommend these coolants be changed every three years or 36,000 miles.
In 1996, GM began switching its vehicle fleet to Dex-Cool, an antifreeze/coolant that uses carboxylate or organic acid technology (OAT) as its main corrosion inhibitor compound, instead of inorganic salts. The Illinois lawsuit alleges that this technology causes rust and corrosion to a much greater degree than traditional coolants.
Known for its orange color (to differentiate it from traditional 'green' coolant), Dex-Cool has been factory-installed in more than 35 million cars and light trucks since the 1996 model year.
The problem, several lawsuits say, is that problems with Dex-Cool most often manifest themselves after consumers' vehicles are out of warranty, and GM has refused to offer assistance to vehicle owners who run into these problems. The lawsuits charge that this violates the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.
GM's position is that the technology used in Dex-Cool has been used successfully for many years in Europe. The company contends that carboxylate technology has demonstrated improved corrosion protection, improved heat transfer, increased service life, reduced environmental impact and been a net money saver for users.
The company admits that some models have seen corroded cooling systems, but blames the corrosion on coolant systems that were not maintained by motorists. According to GM, coolant systems whose levels are maintained show almost no corrosion, a finding backed up by comprehensive testing of the coolant. Even cooling systems equipped with traditional coolants will suffer from corrosion if their fluid levels are not maintained, GM asserts.
GM has also stated that recommended service intervals are not warranties.
Still, the lawsuits claim that GM knew there was a problem with Dex-Cool.
"Shortly after vehicles filled with Dex-Cool were sold, GM was presented with data and complaints from customers, its engineers, its dealers, fleet accounts, service technicians and the media of corroded, rusted and clogged radiators, eroded aluminum cylinder heads, eroded water pumps and thermostat housings, rotten and leaking radiator hoses, leaky heater cores and freeze plugs, corroded radiator caps, deposits within the cooling system, damaged and leaky cooling system gaskets, damage to the head gaskets, chronic overheating, damage to the engine, oil in engine coolant system, leaking coolant, deposits on the overflow tank and sludge in the engine coolant system," the Illinois suit alleges, adding that as early as late-2000, GM engineers were observing coolant contamination in several thousand GM off-lease cars less than four years old.
The Illinois lawsuit also said that at a presentation by GM engineers at the 2001 MACS convention in Orlando, Florida, the engineers told attendees that there are cooling system problems in GM vehicles.
The lawsuits are charging GM and other co-defendants with consumer fraud, and asking for "an award of damages, attorneys' fees, costs, pre- and post-judgment interest, and such relief as the court deems just and proper."
At question in many of these lawsuits is whether GM and other defendants violated state consumer protection laws, whether the Dex-Cool contains an inherent design or manufacturing defect, whether GM vehicles contain an inherent design or manufacturing defect in their cooling systems, whether the defendants should have known about these defects, when they learned of the defects, whether GM and other defendants continued to sell Dex-Cool even after learning of its defects, whether GM and other defendants failed to notify consumers of the defects inherent in Dex-Cool, and whether GM has failed to repair or offer to repair all problems associated with the defective engine coolant.
The anti-Dex-Cool movement is growing, too, with more and more owners of GM vehicles joining these class action lawsuits. Thus far, however, little evidence has been presented proving either side's argument.
Plus, some lawsuits are claiming that Dex-Cool is at least partially responsible for the string of intake manifold gasket failures on GM vehicles equipped with 3.1L or 3.4L V6 engines. For its part, GM has issued a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB 03-06-01-010) that entitles some owners of affected vehicles to a free gasket repair. The service bulletin blames the gasket material, not Dex-Cool, for the problem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GT Member
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Good post. I wasn't aware of this issue with Dex-Cool. My 2.2L '97 S-10 came with it. Right after my warranty expired, I had a coolant leak which eventually warped the head. The dealer put Dex-Cool back in it. A couple of years the head warped again, requiring a new one. The mechanic put in regular antifreeze and water, and I've not had a problem since. It's these early issues that caused me to be greatly unsatisfied with the truck, but that's gone away now that I've got 160,000 miles.
Thread Starter
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
Joined: May 5, 2004
Posts: 7,190
Likes: 0
From: Orlando(DP!) Florida
They don't call it death cool for nothin!
I went around POED that I had done something wrong for months until I googled it and learned the truth. I still get sick when I smell antifreeze. At the height I had to stop every 30 miles and stick in Stop leak and a new load of coolant.
Fortunately, I have one of those David Allan Coe Mechanics- I think he wrote if that ain't country about him. Hes VERY good at what he does, so I was only out $500 all told.
My car has been running like a new one since I replaced the orange crud with the new yellow. The radiator is still filled with sludge, and the temp gauge is messed up- registers hotter than it is and goes to normal when I turn off the AC, but I Can live with that till March. Just don't expect to get your oil changed @ texaco and tell them to keep away from the coolant. They get testy.
I went around POED that I had done something wrong for months until I googled it and learned the truth. I still get sick when I smell antifreeze. At the height I had to stop every 30 miles and stick in Stop leak and a new load of coolant.
Fortunately, I have one of those David Allan Coe Mechanics- I think he wrote if that ain't country about him. Hes VERY good at what he does, so I was only out $500 all told.
My car has been running like a new one since I replaced the orange crud with the new yellow. The radiator is still filled with sludge, and the temp gauge is messed up- registers hotter than it is and goes to normal when I turn off the AC, but I Can live with that till March. Just don't expect to get your oil changed @ texaco and tell them to keep away from the coolant. They get testy.
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