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Good point.
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OK just for the sake of clarity & accuracy...
Between Daimler and the US taxpayer you forgot the NY USA based Cerberus Capital Mgmt that truly gutted Chrysler and only left a skeleton that went banko.
It was the US owners - and its incompetent CEO Nardelli (who failed at GE & Home Depot - CNBC named Nardelli as one of the "Worst American CEOs of All Time") that wrecked Chrysler. Course our Saudi friend's $4+ gas was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Between Daimler and the US taxpayer you forgot the NY USA based Cerberus Capital Mgmt that truly gutted Chrysler and only left a skeleton that went banko.
It was the US owners - and its incompetent CEO Nardelli (who failed at GE & Home Depot - CNBC named Nardelli as one of the "Worst American CEOs of All Time") that wrecked Chrysler. Course our Saudi friend's $4+ gas was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Chrysler pre-Daimler (1997): Best year ever -- $6.09 billion in earnings
Chrysler the year Daimler sold them to Cerebrus (2007): $3 billion dollar loss
Daimler basically used Chrysler cash reserves for Mercedes and other pet projects , mismanaged and cost cut at Chrysler till they couldn't cut anymore, then dumped them.
Daimler paid $36 billion in 1998 for the "merger of equals" and sold Chrysler for $7.4 billion to Cerebrus in 2007. Cerebrus are just vultures that bought the wreckage, they didn't cause it.
Fiat wanted access to the North American market and saw Chrysler as an opportunity. They have the largest share of Chrysler besides VEBA (55%).
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But Private Equity funds excel at milking cash and swapping assets into their own portfolio for the benefit of their investors, while having zero interest or experience in the companies they buy. They are the new incarnation of the 80's LBO vultures like KKR's and Carl Icahn's... At least Daimler was/is an automotive company that has experience in the industry - which makes them more culpable in many ways like you stated. But Cerberus purchased Chrysler in a position and at a price that could have been turned around with proper management. Or do you think they just burned billions on purpose?
In this particular case, Nardelli was nothing but an ongoing sham and Chrysler is not the first company he has ran into the ground. He is an incompetent moron that should be banned from executive & management positions. I guess he gives good head in the Board Room. Cerberus & Nardelli put Chrysler in such a precarious financial position that Saudi $4 gas tipped them over the edge - like the rest of the economy.
The cause of our current Great Recession [poor lending standards forced by bi-partisan morons in government starting in the 90's, along with Greenspan's stupidity (and repeated 'bubbles') notwithstanding] lies squarely on the shoulders of our Saudi "friends" and the rest of OPEC. And as stupid as the Arabs are, they don't seem to realize that one or two years of profit splendor sends the world into years of malaise which typically harms their profits for years. 70's part deux. I've never seen such stupidity as that of Arab Countries. And frankly the only reason we still have $70+ oil is because of Fed manipulation IMO. The Fed is dancing double time to avoid deflation showing up in the CPI because a few quarters of negative CPI would actually turn that fear into reality like Japan's lost (2) decades. Oil is easy to manipulate and the easiest thing to use to show some consumer inflation.
And in case you aren't aware, CEO's do not own their companies. They are employees. Its the SHAREHOLDER'S that own the company and in the current situation, majority ownership is USA based UAW. Serg does NOT own Chrysler. And the current 20% stake does NOT give Fiat majority control. It may wind up that way but that is not the case as we speak. At present it is the Chrysler/Fiat alliance. 80% of voting control lies with North American interests.
Last edited by cdynaco; Jun 14, 2010 at 02:18 AM.
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I understand Daimler sucked Chrysler and did nothing for new and improved models. I have no love for German automakers of any kind.
But Private Equity funds excel at milking cash and swapping assets into their own portfolio for the benefit of their investors, while having zero interest or experience in the companies they buy. They are the new incarnation of the 80's LBO vultures like KKR's and Carl Icahn's... At least Daimler was/is an automotive company that has experience in the industry - which makes them more culpable in many ways like you stated. But Cerberus purchased Chrysler in a position and at a price that could have been turned around with proper management. Or do you think they just burned billions on purpose?
In this particular case, Nardelli was nothing but an ongoing sham and Chrysler is not the first company he has ran into the ground. He is an incompetent moron that should be banned from executive & management positions. I guess he gives good head in the Board Room. Cerberus & Nardelli put Chrysler in such a precarious financial position that Saudi $4 gas tipped them over the edge - like the rest of the economy.
But Private Equity funds excel at milking cash and swapping assets into their own portfolio for the benefit of their investors, while having zero interest or experience in the companies they buy. They are the new incarnation of the 80's LBO vultures like KKR's and Carl Icahn's... At least Daimler was/is an automotive company that has experience in the industry - which makes them more culpable in many ways like you stated. But Cerberus purchased Chrysler in a position and at a price that could have been turned around with proper management. Or do you think they just burned billions on purpose?
In this particular case, Nardelli was nothing but an ongoing sham and Chrysler is not the first company he has ran into the ground. He is an incompetent moron that should be banned from executive & management positions. I guess he gives good head in the Board Room. Cerberus & Nardelli put Chrysler in such a precarious financial position that Saudi $4 gas tipped them over the edge - like the rest of the economy.
And in case you aren't aware, CEO's do not own their companies. They are employees. Its the SHAREHOLDER'S that own the company and in the current situation, majority ownership is USA based UAW. Serg does NOT own Chrysler. And the current 20% stake does NOT give Fiat majority control. It may wind up that way but that is not the case as we speak. At present it is the Chrysler/Fiat alliance. 80% of voting control lies with North American interests.
After 20+ years of being a loyal Mopar fan, Mopar has been dead to me since Daimler took over. There was a small glimmer of hope that maybe Chrysler would become an American company again when Cerebrus took over, but now that Fiat is involved it's gone.
from a CNNMoney article
... Marchionne is laying the groundwork for drastic actions that will be announced in November but may have been planned all along.
"That is that Chrysler is over, basically," he said of Chrysler's flagship car brand. "Within five years, you're going to see nothing."
Chrysler also makes Dodge and Jeep vehicles.
Even if the Chrysler name survives, Turner predicted, the vehicles marketed under that name will be Fiat products.
... Marchionne is laying the groundwork for drastic actions that will be announced in November but may have been planned all along.
"That is that Chrysler is over, basically," he said of Chrysler's flagship car brand. "Within five years, you're going to see nothing."
Chrysler also makes Dodge and Jeep vehicles.
Even if the Chrysler name survives, Turner predicted, the vehicles marketed under that name will be Fiat products.
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from a CNNMoney article
... Marchionne is laying the groundwork for drastic actions that will be announced in November but may have been planned all along.
"That is that Chrysler is over, basically," he said of Chrysler's flagship car brand. "Within five years, you're going to see nothing."
Chrysler also makes Dodge and Jeep vehicles.
Even if the Chrysler name survives, Turner predicted, the vehicles marketed under that name will be Fiat products.
from a CNNMoney article
I don''t mean to hijack, but what kind of cars does Fiat sell any? I haven't seen a Fiat since 1980...
... Marchionne is laying the groundwork for drastic actions that will be announced in November but may have been planned all along.
"That is that Chrysler is over, basically," he said of Chrysler's flagship car brand. "Within five years, you're going to see nothing."
Chrysler also makes Dodge and Jeep vehicles.
Even if the Chrysler name survives, Turner predicted, the vehicles marketed under that name will be Fiat products.
from a CNNMoney article
I don''t mean to hijack, but what kind of cars does Fiat sell any? I haven't seen a Fiat since 1980...
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From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
On the flip side, Bloomberg made the point that Fiat would be shooting itself in the foot if it reaches for 51% rather than 49% or less. Not only because of the 'image' that it is no longer a predominately US controlled company, but also due to the fact many Investment Companies (mutual funds/etf's), Insurance Companies, Public and Private Pension funds, have mandates for holding only US controlled/US traded companies. If Fiat reaches too far it would wreck a US IPO. And I don't see many individual investors buying on the Italian exchange either.
IMO, I agree with Bloomberg's assessment. If Fiat were smart (and I think Serg & his investment bankers are), running the firm as a Fiat/Chrysler & Jeep alliance for worldwide marketing would be the best of all worlds. Besides, as long as no other single shareholder holds 49%, Fiat would still have the majority votes (majority on the Board) - and could still bill Chrysler as a US based manufacturer with 51% spread across institutional and individual investors.
Then again, on the flip flip side, after reading of Fiat's global tractor success and after acquiring New Holland from Ford, it may consolidate Chrysler for a time until its combination with Fiat is streamlined and effective, then spin off a US subsidiary on the NYSE - all the while keeping North American factories running like they did with New Holland.
Time will tell, and while I'd never buy a Fiat car, they have been very successful worldwide at acquiring long time companies, turning them around, and keeping their separate branding all the while. That is their track record thus far. Why would they change now and ditch Chrysler, Dodge & Jeep brands?
An IPO in 1996
By 1996 New Holland was selling about 280 different products in 130 countries around the world. Globally, 5,600 dealers were selling the company's agricultural equipment and 250 were peddling its construction machinery. During the last quarter of that year, Fiat sold 31 percent of New Holland's stock, 46.5 million common shares, to the public at $21.50 per share, to raise capital to bolster its sagging core automobile business. On November 1, the first day New Holland stock was traded on the New York Stock Exchange, it was the most heavily traded stock on the market.
Principal Subsidiaries: FiatAllis Latino Americana Ltda (Brazil); FiatAllis North America, Inc.; Fiat Finance U.A.A., Inc.; New Holland Australia Pty Ltd.; New Holland Belgium N.V.; New Holland Deutschland GmbH (Germany); New Holland France S.A.; New Holland Braud S.A. (France); New Holland Canada Ltd.; New Holland Credit Company LLC; New Holland Danmark A/S; New Holland España S.A. (Spain); New Holland Factoring S.p.A. (Italy); New Holland Finance (France); New Holland Italia S.p.A.; New Holland Holding Ltd. (U.K.); New Holland Latino Americana Ltda (Brazil); New Holland Ltd. (U.K.); New Holland Mauritius Ltd.; New Holland North America, Inc. (USA); Holland Tractors (India) Private Ltd.; New Holland Tractor Ltd. (U.K. and Belgium); New Holland Trade N.V. (Netherlands); New Holland UK Ltd.; New Holland Logistics S.p.A. (Italy; 80%); Fiat-Hitachi Excavators S.p.A. (Italy; 57%); Fiat-Hitachi Excavators Belgium S.A. (57%); Fiat-Hitachi Excavators France S.A. (57%).
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/compa...y-History.html
Last edited by cdynaco; Jun 14, 2010 at 03:03 PM.
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From: State of Jefferson Mountains USA
Sorry... didn't mean to offend anyone.
Just don't think mis-information should be left out there. What if someone said Ford was really owned by non US Country X - when that would be incorrect and inflammatory. Lots of Americans still put food on the table thanks to Chrysler. And it played a large role defending our Country.
Just don't think mis-information should be left out there. What if someone said Ford was really owned by non US Country X - when that would be incorrect and inflammatory. Lots of Americans still put food on the table thanks to Chrysler. And it played a large role defending our Country.
Last edited by cdynaco; Jun 14, 2010 at 06:37 PM.
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it's all good guys no worries... Sometime I just want to leave the craziness out of a topic and just enjoy it for what it is..you know.
I find it's more fun that way. But anyway..no worries guys I wasn't getting cranky.
I find it's more fun that way. But anyway..no worries guys I wasn't getting cranky.
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