AlsCobra

I think that the aftermarket world brought on a lot of these improvements. Ford performance parts has a huge catalog with products to make the stang better. This alone tells ford that there is always a desire for improvement with their vehicles. Just compare the Ford performance parts catalog to the GM one. There is a really big difference. The 4.6 and 5.4 were not doing bad at all but buyers wanted more so the 5.0 and the 5.8 are here. Bigger brakes, suspension, gear ratio, all now optional on a base GT. Maybe Ford is finally listening to the consumer and giving them what they want. I am sure that Brembo alone is overjoyed that they made this deal with ford. Willwood and Baer I'll bet are really pissed right about now. Recaro is in the same position. Never sold this many seats I'm sure of. And the whole time, Ford is taking a piece of the pie. Great moves by Ford.

Zastava_101

Sales actually prove otherwise.
Ford will sell less than 70,000 Mustangs in 2011 - the lowest number in Mustang's 47 year history.

There was always a huge difference in what people want to buy and what actually they buy.
Same thing happened with the rest of Ford's lineup. Take Focus for an example. For as long as Focus was on sale in the USA (since 2000 I believe) I've been hearing stories how buyers in the USA want European Focus. So they finally got one this year. And nobody is buying them. Well, not nobody, but 2008-2011 model (which everybody complained that it was too ugly) sold much better.

AlsCobra

Which I am sure is the reason for the refresh styling for 13's. Order it how you want it but the body was still boring. Hopefully this will help until a redesign.

The focus doesn't sell well because it has always been a POS. Americans hold grudges for a long long time. People are still hesitant to buy Hyundai because of the old excel (major POS). It's gonna take a while for people to trust a focus over a civic. Toyota is still doing well because what they had in the 80's. And their cars are really problematic nowadays. Trust doesn't come easy here. Just because there is a new exciting model out doesnt mean americans will just jump right on the ride. Ford is doing pretty good right now considering what they have been through.

MARZ

I've been saying this for quite some time. And, according to SVT's Chief Nameplate Engineer, the 2013 GT500's motivation was the Boss Mustang and not the Camaro ZL1 as, according to Mr. Hameedi, the ZL1 was rumored to have been cancelled when development of the 650-horsepower pony began.

http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2011/1...he-camaro-zl1/

2011 Kona Blue

I believe the Camaro ZL1 will offer no competition to Ford, Mustang sales and to be quite honest foolish for GM to produce such car. Mustang enthusiasts who have 60k and willing to spend 60k will buy a Cobra. GM sports car enthusiasts who have 60k to spend on sports car is not going to buy the Camaro ZL1. They will buy the Corvette for 60k. The Corvette is GM's iconic sports car and legendary Musscle car for GM. I don't care how fast you make the Camaro, its still a Camaro and throughout history the Camaro is the sports car for the consumer who couldn't afford the Corvette. That's why people bought the Camaro. Its known as the poor mans Vette.

I think Chevy is foolish to price it at 54k base when a Vette lists for lower.

cdynaco

I don't think you can throw out raw sales numbers and make any kind of determination by that alone. Shortly after taking delivery of #901 we hit $4 gas, then the Great Implosion, and now the aftermath of high unemployment, bankruptcies, millions of upside down homeowners - many of whom fear for their jobs, and a painfully slow recovery.

Plus how many more choices for the car buyer's dollar compared to just a few years ago?

And the 08-11 Focus numbers could have been due to people bailing out of SUV's - which they currently seem to be gravitating back to according to the few quarters sales reports. Sales towards trucks & SUV's could be hampering the 2012 Focus.

There's more to it than simply citing sales numbers.

Zastava_101

So how would you explain the success Chevy is currently having with the Cruze? Chevy sold 215,000 of them so far in 2011 - only Corolla (219,000) beats Cruze in sales in their class.
Cruze is also brand new on the market and it's a Korean car. And it just replaced Cobalt which was considered a POS.

The new Focus came out 6 months ago and there are plenty of them at the dealerships. There are two Ford dealerships close to me and each has at least 10-15 Focuses on the lot.
The point that I was trying to make is that "ugly" 2008-2011 USA-designed Focus sold much better than the 2012+ global-designed Focus.

And I wouldn't agree that Focus was/is POA. I remember reading somewhere that it's the most reliable car in the USA in the first 3 years of ownership.
I test drove a new Focus few weeks ago and I actually liked it much more than cars that most people consider the best in its class (Mazda 3 and Honda Civic), which I also test drove.

AlsCobra

The original focus was a POS. which is what Americans remember. The "all new redesigned focus" translates into the "redesigned POS" we all remember being crap. Should have changed the name plate with the design. I drove a fiesta once. Great little car. Not gonna sell. The focus may be a great little car but it's marked with that name plate that's not forgotten.

The Cruz is all new. Never heard of it before. Let's check it out. (this is how we think). Logic,reason,research, don't have much to do with American car sales. Flashing lights and dancing girls. Hip culture icons on commercials.
Camaro was reintroduced as exciting as it can get. Transformer movie and wait for it 2 more years. Just teasing everyone with it. Who cares what the interior looked like or performance numbers? Epic campaign. Didn't even need commercials to sell after the movie.

Americans still harp on civil war outcomes. Do you really think that they will get over the original focus? It's still hard to think of Hyundai without picturing the excel and those guys are making some really exciting vehicles now.

Zastava_101

Everything that you're saying would make sense except for one thing - the Focus, which according to you, was a POS sold very well. It would make sense if neither was selling, but the "crappy one" sold well and the improved one did not.

AlsCobra

It was new at the time. Like the Cruz is now. Sold well for a few years. Then they showed what they really were. Poo. I've worked on everything from 1993-2008. Trust me focus was crap. Taurus, tempo crap & double crap. All adding to distrust of the name brand.
IMO. Ford made 3 models that carried the brand: mustang, crown Vic, F150. Always held true to what they were and always quality. Everything else was a waste of consumer dollars and only sold if it was affordable.

Chrysler is still not doing well because of the complete garbage that they sold in the 80's and 90's. And many people are still scarred from the brand that left them on the side of the road that one or two times.

I am biased with GM so I won't say a whole lot about them. I worked for GM for 10 years then for ford and then Chrysler. Chrysler deserves where they are right now.

Zastava_101

Body was new, but the rest of the car was same as it was back in the 2000.
And new or not it was still ugly as hell.

Just so there is no confusion - I'm talking about this generation Focus.

AlsCobra

Yeah I was taking about the original focus. Any other gen focus that followed was tagged with the same name plate and is marked as the same car. They may be nothing alike except a name plate but that all it takes. That's how it works here.

Zastava_101

So for what reason Focus from the above pic sold so well?

It was ugly, really outdated ... yet, Ford sold over 200,000 of them last year. Many more than they will sell in 2011.

AlsCobra

Cheap and $4/gallon is my best guess. Economy issues at the time. If I was in the market for a comparable car, I'm not checking out ford for sure. And the people buying vehicles now have too many new names to choose from. Why check out that old name focus?

Zastava_101

It wasn't really all that cheap, it like $300 cheaper than the current model.
And gas wasn't really cheap this year, it was $3.50 until few weeks ago.

I never drove that generation Focus so I don't know what's like. But I remember reading a story that it was the most reliable car in the USA during first 3 years of ownership.

I am also not sure why so many people like Mazda 3. I drove one with a 2.5L engine and it's noisy and uncomfortable, I didn't like it at all.

I'm actually pretty sure that the so-called global design is pushing customers away from the current Focus. There is nothing global in it, it's all European. People that bought in the past Fords expected an all-American car. So Ford is losing their traditional buyers, but not getting any new ones because whoever wants a European type car is not gonna check Ford for sure.

AlsCobra

Also remember the incentive issues that they use and the imports didn't at the time. And I'm sure they found a way to finance just about anyone for a focus. And try talking down a honda or toyota salesman. Its like buying lobster at market value. No negotiations here. Just wondering if that was the same year that they did cash for clunkers also.

Zastava_101

Ford doesn't offer much of rebates these days either $500-1,000 tops (with the exception of F-Series).

AlsCobra

And sales are down on the focus. Hmmm

They better figure out a way to give those things away if they want to sell them.

Zastava_101

Sales are down only on those global Fords. Focus and Transit Connect, and Fiesta's numbers will never be high, it's being outsold by the previous generation Aveo.

Fusion, Escape, Explorer and the rest of USA-designed Fords are doing quite well. Even with the same rebates as the Focus.

jsaylor

Recently, Focus production was seriously limited by supply issues, and for quite some time. In spite of this sales for September, October, and November were above 10k units per month. (November was just shy of 12k units) Those issues have apparently been resolved, but the supply chain issues they caused aren't going to go away overnight and that hurts sales. To put this into perspective, for a while dealership supply levels were well below one month's supply even at a sales rate of 10k units per month.

That makes it impossible to blame lower sales figures on European design or anything else besides supply chain issues until that supply chain is given enough time to be brought back to a semblance of normalcy.