Camaro, Shelby Gt and MKS will see production
8/29/06 | 10:20 PM
#21
Cobra Member
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 1,322
Likes: 0
From: NV
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
Not today, I fear. But nice try anyway. 
I'll leave it to you to figure out which "famous" journalist said THIS (a quote that typically represents what automotive journalists think about the SRA) >>
Its brakes were cooked by turn six; the final slow corner completely overwhelmed the live rear axle; and through the fearsome Corkscrew, which twists down a gradient so steep you can’t even walk up it, I’m afraid Mr Ed was about as pin sharp as a punt gun. I **** nearly soiled myself.
I'll leave it to you to figure out which "famous" journalist said THIS (a quote that typically represents what automotive journalists think about the SRA) >>
Its brakes were cooked by turn six; the final slow corner completely overwhelmed the live rear axle; and through the fearsome Corkscrew, which twists down a gradient so steep you can’t even walk up it, I’m afraid Mr Ed was about as pin sharp as a punt gun. I **** nearly soiled myself.
He's not a jounalist, he's TV personality.
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
On the other hand, I challenge you to find me three articles that state the new Mustang GT has exemplary handling...
Motor Trend
The steering is tidy. Cornering prowess is inspiring: the GT powers through the slalom at better than 65 mph. Yes, the Mustang's live axle has been roundly criticized for being a blatant cost-cutting measure, but all those sniffy "Independent Rear Suspension" badges won't do other drivers much good when your GT is already leaving exhaust echoes around the next bend.
The steering is tidy. Cornering prowess is inspiring: the GT powers through the slalom at better than 65 mph. Yes, the Mustang's live axle has been roundly criticized for being a blatant cost-cutting measure, but all those sniffy "Independent Rear Suspension" badges won't do other drivers much good when your GT is already leaving exhaust echoes around the next bend.
Car & Driver
Not even the most recent independent-rear-suspension SVT Cobra can match the new GT's skidpad grip, which now also surpasses a Nissan 350Z Touring's, come to think of it. Pitched hard into corners, the Mustang is initially neutral, then tends toward understeer. If the push annoys you, just stab the throttle and you can induce power oversteer. Neutral, understeer, oversteer. Quite a smorgasbord. And the tail-happiness now materializes more gently, rather than in one heart-stopping twitch. Throughout, extraneous body movements are nicely damped....
In fact, every C/D tester peered at least once under our GT's rump to ensure there weren't a couple of pricey half-shafts whizzing around in there.
Not even the most recent independent-rear-suspension SVT Cobra can match the new GT's skidpad grip, which now also surpasses a Nissan 350Z Touring's, come to think of it. Pitched hard into corners, the Mustang is initially neutral, then tends toward understeer. If the push annoys you, just stab the throttle and you can induce power oversteer. Neutral, understeer, oversteer. Quite a smorgasbord. And the tail-happiness now materializes more gently, rather than in one heart-stopping twitch. Throughout, extraneous body movements are nicely damped....
In fact, every C/D tester peered at least once under our GT's rump to ensure there weren't a couple of pricey half-shafts whizzing around in there.
Edmunds
The latest Mustang uses an all-new MacPherson strut front suspension design combined with performance-tuned rack and pinion steering. The setup provides absolutely stellar driving dynamics, while the large front and rear anti-sway bars tame body roll to an absolute minimum. We were skeptical about Ford's use of a solid "live" axle out back rather than developing a more advanced independent rear suspension setup, but the reality is that most would-be buyers don't want to pay for all that extra technology. And when one balances the '05 Mustang's low cost and excellent ride and handling ability with the lack of cutting-edge technology, it appears that Ford made the right decision.
The latest Mustang uses an all-new MacPherson strut front suspension design combined with performance-tuned rack and pinion steering. The setup provides absolutely stellar driving dynamics, while the large front and rear anti-sway bars tame body roll to an absolute minimum. We were skeptical about Ford's use of a solid "live" axle out back rather than developing a more advanced independent rear suspension setup, but the reality is that most would-be buyers don't want to pay for all that extra technology. And when one balances the '05 Mustang's low cost and excellent ride and handling ability with the lack of cutting-edge technology, it appears that Ford made the right decision.
8/29/06 | 10:51 PM
#23
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Joined: February 1, 2004
Posts: 3,751
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Vermillion06
Clarskson thinks anything American stinks anyway... He's not a jounalist, he's TV personality.
He's not a jounalist, he's TV personality.Secondly, he doesn't think "anything American stinks." He lampoons the Stereotypes of American society and the American Automotive industry, but that's a popular facet of English nationalist humor, and we can hardly argue that his comments are baseless. He's a big Mustang fan, he owns a Ford GT and considered buying a GT-500KR, and has been generally supportive of what Ford money has done for PAG. Hardly the acts of a senseless America-basher.
8/30/06 | 02:26 AM
#24
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by TomServo92
The fact is you got busted quoting someone with zero credibility but lack the courage to admit it. 
The "fact," according to you. You love your obfuscations, don't you? For what was I busted, exactly? (In order to be "busted," one has to have done something wrong.) For quoting someone who is clearly capable of differentiating the handling dynamics of various automobiles? How exactly is this guy's credibility any less than, oh, say YOURS?
Let's stick to the issue, and the issue is that everybody - from those with an ounce of common sense (like the writer I first cited) to a pound of journalistic credentials (like the journalist I later quoted) universally grasp the fact that IRS technology is uncontestably superior to SRA technology on any contemporary performance car, notwithstanding the "yeah, but for the money..." argument that's always trotted out, or the abilities of engineers to make an antiquated technology "adequate."
8/30/06 | 02:33 AM
#25
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by Moosetang
Nope and nope. For one, he is a very well-regarded Automotive journalist. He writes for the Sunday Times and the Sun. as well as Top Gear Magazine. Appearing on TV didn't make Leon Mandel any less the journalist, same for Clarkson.
Secondly, he doesn't think "anything American stinks." He lampoons the Stereotypes of American society and the American Automotive industry, but that's a popular facet of English nationalist humor, and we can hardly argue that his comments are baseless. He's a big Mustang fan, he owns a Ford GT and considered buying a GT-500KR, and has been generally supportive of what Ford money has done for PAG. Hardly the acts of a senseless America-basher.
Secondly, he doesn't think "anything American stinks." He lampoons the Stereotypes of American society and the American Automotive industry, but that's a popular facet of English nationalist humor, and we can hardly argue that his comments are baseless. He's a big Mustang fan, he owns a Ford GT and considered buying a GT-500KR, and has been generally supportive of what Ford money has done for PAG. Hardly the acts of a senseless America-basher.
8/30/06 | 02:49 AM
#26
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
On the other hand, I challenge you to find me three articles that state the new Mustang GT has exemplary handling...
Motor Trend
The steering is tidy. Cornering prowess is inspiring: the GT powers through the slalom at better than 65 mph. Yes, the Mustang's live axle has been roundly criticized for being a blatant cost-cutting measure, but all those sniffy "Independent Rear Suspension" badges won't do other drivers much good when your GT is already leaving exhaust echoes around the next bend.
Car & Driver
Not even the most recent independent-rear-suspension SVT Cobra can match the new GT's skidpad grip, which now also surpasses a Nissan 350Z Touring's, come to think of it. Pitched hard into corners, the Mustang is initially neutral, then tends toward understeer. If the push annoys you, just stab the throttle and you can induce power oversteer. Neutral, understeer, oversteer. Quite a smorgasbord. And the tail-happiness now materializes more gently, rather than in one heart-stopping twitch. Throughout, extraneous body movements are nicely damped....
In fact, every C/D tester peered at least once under our GT's rump to ensure there weren't a couple of pricey half-shafts whizzing around in there.
Edmunds
The latest Mustang uses an all-new MacPherson strut front suspension design combined with performance-tuned rack and pinion steering. The setup provides absolutely stellar driving dynamics, while the large front and rear anti-sway bars tame body roll to an absolute minimum. We were skeptical about Ford's use of a solid "live" axle out back rather than developing a more advanced independent rear suspension setup, but the reality is that most would-be buyers don't want to pay for all that extra technology. And when one balances the '05 Mustang's low cost and excellent ride and handling ability with the lack of cutting-edge technology, it appears that Ford made the right decision.
On the other hand, I challenge you to find me three articles that state the new Mustang GT has exemplary handling...
Motor Trend
The steering is tidy. Cornering prowess is inspiring: the GT powers through the slalom at better than 65 mph. Yes, the Mustang's live axle has been roundly criticized for being a blatant cost-cutting measure, but all those sniffy "Independent Rear Suspension" badges won't do other drivers much good when your GT is already leaving exhaust echoes around the next bend.
Car & Driver
Not even the most recent independent-rear-suspension SVT Cobra can match the new GT's skidpad grip, which now also surpasses a Nissan 350Z Touring's, come to think of it. Pitched hard into corners, the Mustang is initially neutral, then tends toward understeer. If the push annoys you, just stab the throttle and you can induce power oversteer. Neutral, understeer, oversteer. Quite a smorgasbord. And the tail-happiness now materializes more gently, rather than in one heart-stopping twitch. Throughout, extraneous body movements are nicely damped....
In fact, every C/D tester peered at least once under our GT's rump to ensure there weren't a couple of pricey half-shafts whizzing around in there.
Edmunds
The latest Mustang uses an all-new MacPherson strut front suspension design combined with performance-tuned rack and pinion steering. The setup provides absolutely stellar driving dynamics, while the large front and rear anti-sway bars tame body roll to an absolute minimum. We were skeptical about Ford's use of a solid "live" axle out back rather than developing a more advanced independent rear suspension setup, but the reality is that most would-be buyers don't want to pay for all that extra technology. And when one balances the '05 Mustang's low cost and excellent ride and handling ability with the lack of cutting-edge technology, it appears that Ford made the right decision.
CAR and DRIVER >>
It's hard to attain roll stiffness and still keep the tires in constant contact with the pavement using this time-honored (read "neolithic") technique.
EDMUNDS >>
The overall design and build quality of the interior are outstanding... Going into tight corners, the Mustang hunkers down and exhibits the slightest hint of oversteer, a refreshing improvement over the understeer-prone '04 model.
All that said, you provided three reasonably positive reviews regarding the SRA, and I thank you for that.
I guess TomServo92 was too lazy to dig them out.
8/30/06 | 05:50 AM
#27
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,973
Likes: 28
From: Conroe, TX
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
The "fact," according to you. You love your obfuscations, don't you? For what was I busted, exactly? (In order to be "busted," one has to have done something wrong.) For quoting someone who is clearly capable of differentiating the handling dynamics of various automobiles? How exactly is this guy's credibility any less than, oh, say YOURS?
Let's stick to the issue, and the issue is that everybody - from those with an ounce of common sense (like the writer I first cited) to a pound of journalistic credentials (like the journalist I later quoted) universally grasp the fact that IRS technology is uncontestably superior to SRA technology on any contemporary performance car, notwithstanding the "yeah, but for the money..." argument that's always trotted out, or the abilities of engineers to make an antiquated technology "adequate."
Like I said, I don't really want to argue the handling issue because I agree that the IRS is better. Surprised I actually agree with you on something?
8/30/06 | 05:52 AM
#28
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,973
Likes: 28
From: Conroe, TX
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
I guess TomServo92 was too lazy to dig them out.
I agree on the IRS!
Got it this time or do I need to use smaller words?
8/30/06 | 02:26 PM
#29
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by TomServo92
I never expounded on the handling characteristics of the Mustang nor did I quote someone who did so my credibility isn't an issue in that regard. I merely commented on an observation made by someone else which, whether you want to admit it or not, made you look silly. Of course, in your typical modus operandi, you deflect it by bringing my credibility into question.
Originally Posted by TomServo92
Like I said, I don't really want to argue the handling issue because I agree that the IRS is better. Surprised I actually agree with you on something?
8/30/06 | 02:42 PM
#31
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,973
Likes: 28
From: Conroe, TX
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
Sophistry.
Not surprised at all, actually. Of course you should agree with me on this - I'm right. But it's interesting that you feel the need to point out an instance of agreement as a cause for surprise - almost as though being disagreeable with me on a regular basis is a favorite passtime for you.
8/30/06 | 03:29 PM
#32
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by TomServo92
Nope. That was straight-forward reasoning. I (and most likely few others) had a chuckle at your expense and you didn't like it. Just remember BC, we're not laughing at, we're laughing with you!
You're right so seldom, I feel the need to point it out whenever I can. It's part of my good-natured personality to bolster the self-esteem of those in need of it.
You're right so seldom, I feel the need to point it out whenever I can. It's part of my good-natured personality to bolster the self-esteem of those in need of it.
Ahhhhh, Tom, Tom, Tom...time for a little introspection, wouldn't you say? If you want to discuss "bolstering self-esteem," let's talk about your need to bolster your own by kicking off this little tirade with an "owned" emoticon—one clearly designed to lure me (successfully, I might add) into a debate with you so that you can test yourself against a superior intellect.
That's the REAL core of this whole debate.
Back to you, Mr. "Reading Comprehension." I patiently await your next obfuscation...
8/30/06 | 05:32 PM
#33
Cobra Member
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 1,322
Likes: 0
From: NV
Originally Posted by Moosetang
Nope and nope. For one, he is a very well-regarded Automotive journalist. He writes for the Sunday Times and the Sun. as well as Top Gear Magazine. Appearing on TV didn't make Leon Mandel any less the journalist, same for Clarkson.
Jay Leno writes columns for Popular Mechanics and the UK's Channel4 website, does that make him any less of a TV personality?
Originally Posted by Moosetang
Secondly, he doesn't think "anything American stinks."
Originally Posted by Moosetang
He lampoons the Stereotypes of American society and the American Automotive industry, but that's a popular facet of English nationalist humor, and we can hardly argue that his comments are baseless.
Originally Posted by Moosetang
He's a big Mustang fan,
Originally Posted by Moosetang
he owns a Ford GT and considered buying a GT-500KR, and has been generally supportive of what Ford money has done for PAG. Hardly the acts of a senseless America-basher.
8/30/06 | 05:45 PM
#34
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,973
Likes: 28
From: Conroe, TX
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
Ahhhhh, Tom, Tom, Tom...time for a little introspection, wouldn't you say? If you want to discuss "bolstering self-esteem," let's talk about your need to bolster your own by kicking off this little tirade with an "owned" emoticon—one clearly designed to lure me (successfully, I might add) into a debate with you so that you can test yourself against a superior intellect.
That's the REAL core of this whole debate.
Back to you, Mr. "Reading Comprehension." I patiently await your next obfuscation...
While I find our little verbal sparring matches exhilarating, they aren't for the benefit of my self-esteem (which is quite healthy BTW). While they lack any real challenge, they do help to keep my wit sharp. Perhaps after a few years of sparring with me, you might actually be able offer a legitimate challenge instead of being an amusing little diversion to entertain me in my spare time.
BTW, you need to pay another visit to Dictionary.com and find a new buzz-word. You've pretty much worn "obfuscation" out!
8/30/06 | 06:48 PM
#36
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by TomServo92
Perhaps after a few years of sparring with me, you might actually be able offer a legitimate challenge instead of being an amusing little diversion to entertain me in my spare time.
Originally Posted by TomServo92
BTW, you need to pay another visit to Dictionary.com and find a new buzz-word. You've pretty much worn "obfuscation" out!
8/30/06 | 06:53 PM
#37
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by Vermillion06
I should have expounded. He's most famous for his TV work and writes opinion columns, which I don't consider journalism. I consider journalism to be the accurate, fair, balanced, and fact-based reporting of news, which is the exact opposite of what he does.
He always has something bad to say about anything American.
He always has something bad to say about anything American.
About the only automotive culture I haven't heard him disparage are the Italians.
Given the current state of the American auto industry, we're a fair target for someone with his acerbic wit.
8/30/06 | 06:56 PM
#38
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,973
Likes: 28
From: Conroe, TX
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
Thanks for proving my point for me.
Thank you for serving up that red herring for us. It was delicious. You keep on trying over there, though. Law of averages says that one day you're bound to get it right.
8/30/06 | 07:01 PM
#40
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,848
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by TomServo92
Well, someone needs to do it since you seem incapable!
Originally Posted by TomServo92
I notice you didn't use "obfuscation". I think that might have been some you "crow" you ate not red herring.
So since you don't like - or can't comprehend - the word obfuscate (since you keep referencing it like you don't understand it), try this one: paralogisms, of which you continue to remain obsessively fond.