California Smog Inspectors to Check for Illegally Tuned Vehicles
7/17/21, 11:18 AM
#1
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
California Smog Inspectors to Check for Illegally Tuned Vehicles
Hey guys, have you seen this? I wasn't sure what this would mean for us guys that have superchargers or turbos or CAIs but have CARB EO stickers. I have a CARB EO sticker for my Whipple.
https://www.semasan.com/legislative-...tuned-vehicles
I reached out to Whipple Superchargers and here's what they said...
"BAR and CARB have not properly announced what they are really doing, thus we can only speculate. But, rest assured, if your kit was supplied with tune and CARB EO, it is legal according to CARB and EPA. If any problems arise, we will address them as they come forward. We've tried to get more information, but very little about what is actually happening is being shared"
https://www.semasan.com/legislative-...tuned-vehicles
I reached out to Whipple Superchargers and here's what they said...
"BAR and CARB have not properly announced what they are really doing, thus we can only speculate. But, rest assured, if your kit was supplied with tune and CARB EO, it is legal according to CARB and EPA. If any problems arise, we will address them as they come forward. We've tried to get more information, but very little about what is actually happening is being shared"
Last edited by 2007CalSpec; 7/17/21 at 11:20 AM.
7/17/21, 10:57 PM
#2
Legacy TMS Member
From the first paragraph:
If you have a CARB/EO sticker for the mods, including the tune, you're good. If you don't, or if you fail smog otherwise, you gotta fix it to their liking. Seems simple enough on the face of it. They also state they don't expect a lot of failed cars for this issue (aka as long as you were playing by the rules, it should be ok.)
For the ones that have done it legally, but for *whatever reason* they fail for that modification, there's outlets for that to protest/get reviewed and possibly pass. Perhaps the mod wasn't yet in the CARB database, or perhaps the modded part was sold illegally and they sent along a fake sticker, or you lost the sticker, or quite a few other possibles that make it not pass the first go 'round.
Yes, it will (siphon greatly) if they happen to fail you. But this is the game ya play when you mod something in Cali. It's their rules. You gotta live with them, like it or not. And since you have the CARB/EO sticker, you should be just fine. But if the sticker's only for the 'charger and NOT the tune... you'll have to get it retuned with a CARB/EO approved tune. That's it, sounds like.
Beginning July 19, California’s Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) may fail motor vehicles during their “smog check” inspection if they are found to have software modifications (tunes) not provided by the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) or approved through a California Air Resources Board (CARB) Executive Order (EO).
For the ones that have done it legally, but for *whatever reason* they fail for that modification, there's outlets for that to protest/get reviewed and possibly pass. Perhaps the mod wasn't yet in the CARB database, or perhaps the modded part was sold illegally and they sent along a fake sticker, or you lost the sticker, or quite a few other possibles that make it not pass the first go 'round.
Yes, it will (siphon greatly) if they happen to fail you. But this is the game ya play when you mod something in Cali. It's their rules. You gotta live with them, like it or not. And since you have the CARB/EO sticker, you should be just fine. But if the sticker's only for the 'charger and NOT the tune... you'll have to get it retuned with a CARB/EO approved tune. That's it, sounds like.
7/17/21, 11:58 PM
#3
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
From the first paragraph:
If you have a CARB/EO sticker for the mods, including the tune, you're good. If you don't, or if you fail smog otherwise, you gotta fix it to their liking. Seems simple enough on the face of it. They also state they don't expect a lot of failed cars for this issue (aka as long as you were playing by the rules, it should be ok.)
For the ones that have done it legally, but for *whatever reason* they fail for that modification, there's outlets for that to protest/get reviewed and possibly pass. Perhaps the mod wasn't yet in the CARB database, or perhaps the modded part was sold illegally and they sent along a fake sticker, or you lost the sticker, or quite a few other possibles that make it not pass the first go 'round.
Yes, it will (siphon greatly) if they happen to fail you. But this is the game ya play when you mod something in Cali. It's their rules. You gotta live with them, like it or not. And since you have the CARB/EO sticker, you should be just fine. But if the sticker's only for the 'charger and NOT the tune... you'll have to get it retuned with a CARB/EO approved tune. That's it, sounds like.
If you have a CARB/EO sticker for the mods, including the tune, you're good. If you don't, or if you fail smog otherwise, you gotta fix it to their liking. Seems simple enough on the face of it. They also state they don't expect a lot of failed cars for this issue (aka as long as you were playing by the rules, it should be ok.)
For the ones that have done it legally, but for *whatever reason* they fail for that modification, there's outlets for that to protest/get reviewed and possibly pass. Perhaps the mod wasn't yet in the CARB database, or perhaps the modded part was sold illegally and they sent along a fake sticker, or you lost the sticker, or quite a few other possibles that make it not pass the first go 'round.
Yes, it will (siphon greatly) if they happen to fail you. But this is the game ya play when you mod something in Cali. It's their rules. You gotta live with them, like it or not. And since you have the CARB/EO sticker, you should be just fine. But if the sticker's only for the 'charger and NOT the tune... you'll have to get it retuned with a CARB/EO approved tune. That's it, sounds like.
7/18/21, 02:13 PM
#4
Legacy TMS Member
Sounds like you know what to do: Get with Lund and get that cleared up pronto.
If they stonewall or hem and haw... you will have no choice but to get them hauled up before CARB/EPA and have them explain themselves with that review process. I'm sure they would rather not and would be more than happy to provide whatever you need before you get there. Or one would hope...
Sidetrack but relevant... The EPA (and therefore CARB) are goin' after companies that're selling 'off road only' modification tunes and modules similar to what Lethal and Lund here have done. PFI and JH Diesel are a couple I've seen on them MePipes. These companies are selling them for off road, aka not on the street and on the private land/tracks use only, and so that doesn't count for CARB/EPA uses. That said, CARB/EPA are doing it anyway, because humans and lies and what not. "I swear I only use it off road! *wink wink*" or "They didn't tell me it was off road only!" Or in actuality, these companies actually did sell them and not ensure off road only use. (Although how that's supposed to be enforced by *the company* is the dumbest idea ever... but that's what the CARB/EPA is thinking, go after the supplier and not the jerk who's doing it wrong...) (I also want to point out I am NOT saying they are doing so, but that's what the CARB/EPA will think anyway... or other companies actually did so historical reasons apply...
)
Things like that are going to be why the right to repair and modify a car is going to be illegal except at dealerships, much like the John Deere thing is working out now for the farmers. Overbearing lawmakers coupled with humans lying their posteriors off causing no tolerance. That and other factors (money, environment, no-fun-people...)
Dunno if that debate's not for this thread. Well, I do know, but anyway. This is why it's happening. And why your car may get caught up in it. And why you now have to do the legwork before it gets the ban hammer. I wish you luck on that, truly! I'm sure it'll be ok, just annoying.
If they stonewall or hem and haw... you will have no choice but to get them hauled up before CARB/EPA and have them explain themselves with that review process. I'm sure they would rather not and would be more than happy to provide whatever you need before you get there. Or one would hope...
Sidetrack but relevant... The EPA (and therefore CARB) are goin' after companies that're selling 'off road only' modification tunes and modules similar to what Lethal and Lund here have done. PFI and JH Diesel are a couple I've seen on them MePipes. These companies are selling them for off road, aka not on the street and on the private land/tracks use only, and so that doesn't count for CARB/EPA uses. That said, CARB/EPA are doing it anyway, because humans and lies and what not. "I swear I only use it off road! *wink wink*" or "They didn't tell me it was off road only!" Or in actuality, these companies actually did sell them and not ensure off road only use. (Although how that's supposed to be enforced by *the company* is the dumbest idea ever... but that's what the CARB/EPA is thinking, go after the supplier and not the jerk who's doing it wrong...) (I also want to point out I am NOT saying they are doing so, but that's what the CARB/EPA will think anyway... or other companies actually did so historical reasons apply...
)Things like that are going to be why the right to repair and modify a car is going to be illegal except at dealerships, much like the John Deere thing is working out now for the farmers. Overbearing lawmakers coupled with humans lying their posteriors off causing no tolerance. That and other factors (money, environment, no-fun-people...)
Dunno if that debate's not for this thread. Well, I do know, but anyway. This is why it's happening. And why your car may get caught up in it. And why you now have to do the legwork before it gets the ban hammer. I wish you luck on that, truly! I'm sure it'll be ok, just annoying.
Last edited by houtex; 7/18/21 at 02:15 PM.
7/21/21, 05:34 PM
#5
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
Sounds like you know what to do: Get with Lund and get that cleared up pronto.
If they stonewall or hem and haw... you will have no choice but to get them hauled up before CARB/EPA and have them explain themselves with that review process. I'm sure they would rather not and would be more than happy to provide whatever you need before you get there. Or one would hope...
Sidetrack but relevant... The EPA (and therefore CARB) are goin' after companies that're selling 'off road only' modification tunes and modules similar to what Lethal and Lund here have done. PFI and JH Diesel are a couple I've seen on them MePipes. These companies are selling them for off road, aka not on the street and on the private land/tracks use only, and so that doesn't count for CARB/EPA uses. That said, CARB/EPA are doing it anyway, because humans and lies and what not. "I swear I only use it off road! *wink wink*" or "They didn't tell me it was off road only!" Or in actuality, these companies actually did sell them and not ensure off road only use. (Although how that's supposed to be enforced by *the company* is the dumbest idea ever... but that's what the CARB/EPA is thinking, go after the supplier and not the jerk who's doing it wrong...) (I also want to point out I am NOT saying they are doing so, but that's what the CARB/EPA will think anyway... or other companies actually did so historical reasons apply...)
Things like that are going to be why the right to repair and modify a car is going to be illegal except at dealerships, much like the John Deere thing is working out now for the farmers. Overbearing lawmakers coupled with humans lying their posteriors off causing no tolerance. That and other factors (money, environment, no-fun-people...)
Dunno if that debate's not for this thread. Well, I do know, but anyway. This is why it's happening. And why your car may get caught up in it. And why you now have to do the legwork before it gets the ban hammer. I wish you luck on that, truly! I'm sure it'll be ok, just annoying.
If they stonewall or hem and haw... you will have no choice but to get them hauled up before CARB/EPA and have them explain themselves with that review process. I'm sure they would rather not and would be more than happy to provide whatever you need before you get there. Or one would hope...
Sidetrack but relevant... The EPA (and therefore CARB) are goin' after companies that're selling 'off road only' modification tunes and modules similar to what Lethal and Lund here have done. PFI and JH Diesel are a couple I've seen on them MePipes. These companies are selling them for off road, aka not on the street and on the private land/tracks use only, and so that doesn't count for CARB/EPA uses. That said, CARB/EPA are doing it anyway, because humans and lies and what not. "I swear I only use it off road! *wink wink*" or "They didn't tell me it was off road only!" Or in actuality, these companies actually did sell them and not ensure off road only use. (Although how that's supposed to be enforced by *the company* is the dumbest idea ever... but that's what the CARB/EPA is thinking, go after the supplier and not the jerk who's doing it wrong...) (I also want to point out I am NOT saying they are doing so, but that's what the CARB/EPA will think anyway... or other companies actually did so historical reasons apply...
)Things like that are going to be why the right to repair and modify a car is going to be illegal except at dealerships, much like the John Deere thing is working out now for the farmers. Overbearing lawmakers coupled with humans lying their posteriors off causing no tolerance. That and other factors (money, environment, no-fun-people...)
Dunno if that debate's not for this thread. Well, I do know, but anyway. This is why it's happening. And why your car may get caught up in it. And why you now have to do the legwork before it gets the ban hammer. I wish you luck on that, truly! I'm sure it'll be ok, just annoying.
https://www.lundracing.com/lund-raci...offroad-waiver
Whipple Superchargers said I would need their calibration which is CARB approved and it's $650 with the Tomahawk programmer. I asked if I can use my Xcal 3 to do the programming but they said it only works with the Tomahawk. I'm kinda upset that I gotta shell out additional money to get compliant again but it is what it is.
7/21/21, 05:36 PM
#6
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well, I guess it's cheaper than moving! ;-)
7/21/21, 05:41 PM
#8
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That just seems like a money grabbing sham to me!
7/21/21, 07:34 PM
#9
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
I found this site that explains how they're checking the tune to see if it's approved. It's in the FAQ section.
https://www.thedrive.com/cars-101/41...tune-flash-faq
https://www.thedrive.com/cars-101/41...tune-flash-faq
7/21/21, 09:09 PM
#10
Legacy TMS Member
I've emailed Lund Racing and Whipple Superchargers. Lund said none of their tunes are compliant in California and now they want me to sign the waiver below. That was a surprise to me because I bought the Whipple back in 2010 from Lethal Performance and nobody ever mentioned that. I guess the tune is excluded from the CARB compliance.
https://www.lundracing.com/lund-raci...offroad-waiver
Whipple Superchargers said I would need their calibration which is CARB approved and it's $650 with the Tomahawk programmer. I asked if I can use my Xcal 3 to do the programming but they said it only works with the Tomahawk. I'm kinda upset that I gotta shell out additional money to get compliant again but it is what it is.
https://www.lundracing.com/lund-raci...offroad-waiver
Whipple Superchargers said I would need their calibration which is CARB approved and it's $650 with the Tomahawk programmer. I asked if I can use my Xcal 3 to do the programming but they said it only works with the Tomahawk. I'm kinda upset that I gotta shell out additional money to get compliant again but it is what it is.
https://www.lethalperformance.com/jo...stom-tune.html
It's right there.
For the Whipple, as they don't show it for your model. They moved on to the Coyote looks like and left the 4.6s behind. However, I looked up for a 2018 GT and:
https://www.lethalperformance.com/wh...11-coyote.html
Same deal. Right there. I found no Whipple on Lethal's page before I gave up lookin' that didn't have that same warning on it.
So the circumstance whereby you didn't know what's up is... well, not for me to say, that's for sure. I believe you when you say nobody said. Maybe it's been added since you purchased the stuff. Maybe they had to because Lethal back then wasn't quite cognizant of what they were doin'. They were founded in 2004, so that may speak for the non-disclosure when you purchased.
https://www.linkedin.com/company/lethal-performance
Not that that helps, but I just have to say that's not a money grab. That's an unfortunate situation all around, probably misinformation by unintended exclusion, omission, or not reading manuals... but yeah. You're gonna have to pay the man to not get Cali mad.
7/22/21, 12:43 PM
#11
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
So... I'm not sure what to say here...
https://www.lethalperformance.com/jo...stom-tune.html
It's right there.
For the Whipple, as they don't show it for your model. They moved on to the Coyote looks like and left the 4.6s behind. However, I looked up for a 2018 GT and:
https://www.lethalperformance.com/wh...11-coyote.html
Same deal. Right there. I found no Whipple on Lethal's page before I gave up lookin' that didn't have that same warning on it.
So the circumstance whereby you didn't know what's up is... well, not for me to say, that's for sure. I believe you when you say nobody said. Maybe it's been added since you purchased the stuff. Maybe they had to because Lethal back then wasn't quite cognizant of what they were doin'. They were founded in 2004, so that may speak for the non-disclosure when you purchased.
https://www.linkedin.com/company/lethal-performance
Not that that helps, but I just have to say that's not a money grab. That's an unfortunate situation all around, probably misinformation by unintended exclusion, omission, or not reading manuals... but yeah. You're gonna have to pay the man to not get Cali mad.
https://www.lethalperformance.com/jo...stom-tune.html
It's right there.
For the Whipple, as they don't show it for your model. They moved on to the Coyote looks like and left the 4.6s behind. However, I looked up for a 2018 GT and:
https://www.lethalperformance.com/wh...11-coyote.html
Same deal. Right there. I found no Whipple on Lethal's page before I gave up lookin' that didn't have that same warning on it.
So the circumstance whereby you didn't know what's up is... well, not for me to say, that's for sure. I believe you when you say nobody said. Maybe it's been added since you purchased the stuff. Maybe they had to because Lethal back then wasn't quite cognizant of what they were doin'. They were founded in 2004, so that may speak for the non-disclosure when you purchased.
https://www.linkedin.com/company/lethal-performance
Not that that helps, but I just have to say that's not a money grab. That's an unfortunate situation all around, probably misinformation by unintended exclusion, omission, or not reading manuals... but yeah. You're gonna have to pay the man to not get Cali mad.
7/22/21, 08:02 PM
#12
Legacy TMS Member
That's amazing. Fantastic job in keepin' that receipt. 
You now have proof that either your setup is grandfathered from that date, or Lethal/Lund was selling a non-50 state setup and mislabeling it as legal. Big no-no if that's the case, even as a mistake. At the very least you need to get with Lethal now for an explanation, and include the info from both Lund and Whipple regarding their stance and what Lethal might need to do for you regarding this seeming debacle, as they said 'legal' and you're finding otherwise.
And if they stonewall, just mention a lawyer, EPA and CARB in the same sentence. That'll be a quick turnaround I imagine. Like I said above, the EPA is actively pursuing such shenanigans as what's apparently taken place. They'd be very interested indeed to hear about your situation, I'm sure. If they're not looking right now... *waves at the CARB/EPA people*.
I'm not sayin' they did it on purpose. I'm saying that they need to explain it, and if they did mislabel/misrepresent, then they owe you whatever is needed to fix that at no cost to you. One would hope they'd not be stupid enough to get you to the lawyer phase. You would win outright with that documentation.
Please note, I am not a lawyer, apes together strong, I like the stock, this is not advice, all that stuff. But I do think you have a decent case and would win compensation for the overall issue. And also, I want to note I do not know if CARB can change the rules after some time and make this then-legal setup no longer legal.
Hence, lawyer might be a good move anyway. If nothing else but discovery. Go see SEMA people about what to do. And good dang luck.
You now have proof that either your setup is grandfathered from that date, or Lethal/Lund was selling a non-50 state setup and mislabeling it as legal. Big no-no if that's the case, even as a mistake. At the very least you need to get with Lethal now for an explanation, and include the info from both Lund and Whipple regarding their stance and what Lethal might need to do for you regarding this seeming debacle, as they said 'legal' and you're finding otherwise. And if they stonewall, just mention a lawyer, EPA and CARB in the same sentence. That'll be a quick turnaround I imagine. Like I said above, the EPA is actively pursuing such shenanigans as what's apparently taken place. They'd be very interested indeed to hear about your situation, I'm sure. If they're not looking right now... *waves at the CARB/EPA people*.
I'm not sayin' they did it on purpose. I'm saying that they need to explain it, and if they did mislabel/misrepresent, then they owe you whatever is needed to fix that at no cost to you. One would hope they'd not be stupid enough to get you to the lawyer phase. You would win outright with that documentation.
Please note, I am not a lawyer, apes together strong, I like the stock, this is not advice, all that stuff. But I do think you have a decent case and would win compensation for the overall issue. And also, I want to note I do not know if CARB can change the rules after some time and make this then-legal setup no longer legal.
Hence, lawyer might be a good move anyway. If nothing else but discovery. Go see SEMA people about what to do. And good dang luck.
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