Bought a 2004 GTO...
10/13/04, 10:19 AM
#21
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Originally posted by new22003+October 13, 2004, 8:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (new22003 @ October 13, 2004, 8:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GottaGoatInstead@October 13, 2004, 7:49 AM
Wow some of you are pretty hostile. I love the new Mustang, I was only pointing out my personal reasons for choosing the GTO instead. Ouch. I've been using this site as a source for information on the new Mustang, which I did have every intention of buying. But after comparing the Stang with the GTO, for me the GTO made more sense. And for those of you bashing the GTO, you obviously haven't driven one.
Wow some of you are pretty hostile. I love the new Mustang, I was only pointing out my personal reasons for choosing the GTO instead. Ouch. I've been using this site as a source for information on the new Mustang, which I did have every intention of buying. But after comparing the Stang with the GTO, for me the GTO made more sense. And for those of you bashing the GTO, you obviously haven't driven one.
But look at the outside. Rental car city. 90% of the public will think its a grand prixx or cavalier. Woo Hoo pay $30,000 for a sporty car people think is $15,000 front drive family car. [/b][/quote]
Yeah, but look at the bright side of the Goat's Q-ship looks: Mr. Harry Upp Mustang will be enjoying an earnest chat with Johnie Law regarding his predilection for overt displays of speed, i.e., 11 mph over, while Ms. Di S. Crete ruffles officer Ann T. Destination's slacks as she steams past utterly unheeded, her speedo deep in the dark side of the triple digit mark.
10/13/04, 11:25 AM
#22
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Originally posted by rhumb@October 13, 2004, 7:51 AM
Do recall that the original GTOs were nothing but an option package for the tepid LeMans and were hardly stunning lookers by any stretch. The did perk up the styling over the years however, as Pontiac is doing with this iteration, and I think the '66-'67s were the best before they started going over the top with the circus-come-to-town Judges and whatnot.
But the current Goat styling, while a bit, errr, discrete, is not a bad design and GM is very actively attacking that front, what with a new rear end design with split exhaust outlets and a functioning (sort of) hood scoop option, not to mention the new 400hp 6.0 motor to back it all up. Hopefully Ford will be as aggessive in enhancing and advancing the new Stang.
Do recall that the original GTOs were nothing but an option package for the tepid LeMans and were hardly stunning lookers by any stretch. The did perk up the styling over the years however, as Pontiac is doing with this iteration, and I think the '66-'67s were the best before they started going over the top with the circus-come-to-town Judges and whatnot.
But the current Goat styling, while a bit, errr, discrete, is not a bad design and GM is very actively attacking that front, what with a new rear end design with split exhaust outlets and a functioning (sort of) hood scoop option, not to mention the new 400hp 6.0 motor to back it all up. Hopefully Ford will be as aggessive in enhancing and advancing the new Stang.
This is true. Which is why I can't understand why so many people say the new GTO "doesn't live up to the GTO heritage". The GTO was not a unique car in terms of styling; the original GTO was a everyday GM midsize two-door with a hot engine. The Monaro based GTO is exactly that. What unique traits did the original 60's GTOs have that the new GTO doesn't ? Do people who criticize the looks of the new GTO know or remember what the original Pontiac GTO looked like?
The Mustang, on the other hand, was a new unique type of car with unique styling cues ; in fact, it was so unique, a new term was coined , "pony car".
I'm a Mustang fan but my dad was a big Pontiac fan when I was a kid, so I am glad the GTO is back and that Ford got the '05 Mustang so right. I like both; I wish I had the budget to have both in my garage...
10/13/04, 11:44 AM
#23
Originally posted by GottaGoatInstead@October 13, 2004, 12:57 PM
I have been waiting for the new 'Stang for over a year. I couldn't wait to get one. Had an 88 5.0 that was good to me for 11 years and 250,000+ miles. Then 2 weeks ago I went to check out the 04 GTO, just for shts and giggles. Dealer let me take it home for the night. I brought it back the next day and crunched the numbers with the dealer. He gave me $3k over trade in value for my Isuzu Rodeo, and then a $4K rebate from Pontiac plus 2.9% financing. I had already gone to Ford dealers in the area and they weren't even gonna give me Trade in value on my Rodeo plus the best deal on the Stang was $950 over invoice. After all was said and done the GTO was actually less money than the Mustang was going to be. Mostly because of the trade-in.
I can't believe I talked myself out of the Mustang. But I don't regret it. I love the GTO. It's not gonna be as nimble as the Stang, but it pulls the same skid pad numbers, same 0-60, it's bit quicker in the 1/4 and has a higher trap speed than the stang, but the best part of the GTO is the interior. It kicks the Mustang's as*, no question. The Mustang's interior choices are too limited, Red or some shade of grey.....Yawn.....The GTO's interior is so much better than the Stang, it certainly looks a lot more expensive. Plus it has an independent rear susp., 6 speed tranny, and it's got at least 10+ miles an hour on the top end over the Stang. And for me at least, less money than the Mustang was gonna be. And you know what? While the styling isn't equal to the Mustang, the GTO is much more exclusive. You're gonna see Mustangs EVERYWHERE in a few months. How many GTO's have you seen around. Which car is gonna be worth more 25 years from now. The GTO.
Some day I'll probably get another Mustang, but the GTO made more sense for me now....Don't be mad at me.........
I have been waiting for the new 'Stang for over a year. I couldn't wait to get one. Had an 88 5.0 that was good to me for 11 years and 250,000+ miles. Then 2 weeks ago I went to check out the 04 GTO, just for shts and giggles. Dealer let me take it home for the night. I brought it back the next day and crunched the numbers with the dealer. He gave me $3k over trade in value for my Isuzu Rodeo, and then a $4K rebate from Pontiac plus 2.9% financing. I had already gone to Ford dealers in the area and they weren't even gonna give me Trade in value on my Rodeo plus the best deal on the Stang was $950 over invoice. After all was said and done the GTO was actually less money than the Mustang was going to be. Mostly because of the trade-in.
I can't believe I talked myself out of the Mustang. But I don't regret it. I love the GTO. It's not gonna be as nimble as the Stang, but it pulls the same skid pad numbers, same 0-60, it's bit quicker in the 1/4 and has a higher trap speed than the stang, but the best part of the GTO is the interior. It kicks the Mustang's as*, no question. The Mustang's interior choices are too limited, Red or some shade of grey.....Yawn.....The GTO's interior is so much better than the Stang, it certainly looks a lot more expensive. Plus it has an independent rear susp., 6 speed tranny, and it's got at least 10+ miles an hour on the top end over the Stang. And for me at least, less money than the Mustang was gonna be. And you know what? While the styling isn't equal to the Mustang, the GTO is much more exclusive. You're gonna see Mustangs EVERYWHERE in a few months. How many GTO's have you seen around. Which car is gonna be worth more 25 years from now. The GTO.
Some day I'll probably get another Mustang, but the GTO made more sense for me now....Don't be mad at me.........
However, I will choke to death on a pea if the 04, or even 05, GTO sells for more than say, a Mach-1 based on the 05 Mustang body style 25 years from now. Why do I say this? Look at the massive rebate you got on your GTO and it has only been back in production one year. (You can consider that "extra" they gave you on your trade as rebate/discount as well unless the guy making the deal is just stupid. Rodeo's have a horrible reputation for reliability ansd their value reflects this big-time)
Generally speaking, GM has had a tough time moving the GTO. And when you consider that America has been fairly well muscle-car deprived as late, and that this is now GM's only truly muscular offering, that is not good news.For the money it is actually not overly fast and I think that has hurt the 04 GTO. An 04 Mach-1 will handle an 04 GTO fairly easily assuming two equal drivers. Also, the styling may be "Q-ship" as rhumb said, but this car could have possibly stood a little more overt firepower on deck.
Do not get me wrong I am not referring to scoops and mega-sized spoilers. But, how about some sizzle in the sheetmetal? The new 05 mustang GT has it without resorting to scoops and spoilers, heck even Infiniti's G35 coupe has more sizzle. The Goat is not unattractive, but the styling says "new Grand Prix" louder than it says "reborn GTO" to these eyes.
Also, the GTO's reliability in this particular iteration is going to be questionable until we know more. The V-8 part should be fine, but this is the same basic chassis that was under the previous Cadillac Catera. That thing was possibly the worst car sold by GM in North America since the 1980's, seriously. If it can go wrong with a car it went wrong with that one.....I'll wait to see that GM "fixed" this before I believe they did.
I also take issue with the idea that the GTO interior is so much nicer than the new Mustang's. The GTO's interior is nice, and certainly nicer than anything else GM sells here (not hard to do) However, while I cannot comment on fit, finish, or quality of materials on the new pony the look is stunning. If the fit, finish, and quality of materials matches that of the new F-150, and if the seats are up to par, then I would have to say IMHO no, the GTO does not have a nicer interior than the pony. (I have not driven a GTO, but I have been in one)
Finally, if GM truly missed the boat in one area on this car it's the non existent trunk. If I were a Pontiac salesman I would avoid that particular area of the car, or indicate that the back seats makes great storage. And, before somebody mentions that people do not buy these cars for "room'. If room and trunk space are not considerations than why build a big coupe? It is a consideration. And if you think I am going overboard on this particular item go look at one.....you cannot imagine how small the trunk is relative to the size of the car until you see it.
That said the GTO is a nice car even with all of it's faults. And, the 05 should fix the zoom/dollar ratio assuming the price does not climb to much. As a matter of fact I advised my previously Trans Am loving brother that now that he is a bit older the GTO may be right up his alley.But I am buying a Mustang.
10/13/04, 01:23 PM
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I think one thing people do take for granted regarding the new GTO is that there IS a new GTO at all to kick around, flaws and all. The most likely scenario is that there would be no GTO had it not been for Lutz falling for the Aussie Monaro and pretty much mandating that Pontiac bring it over here.
Yes, it is a bit plain, as was the original GTO so it's pretty true to heritage there. But at least it avoids the clownish overstyling that has afflicted so many GM and Pontiac performance cars.
And yes, the second glovebox, err, trunk is a bit small due to the necessity of moving the gas tank to keep NHTSA happy.
As for the interiors, Mustang vs Goat, I'll have to reserve final judgement till I actually see a Mustang interior in the horse flesh, but presuming its quality is on par with the F150, I would rate it comparable to quality to the GTO and of comparable if different aesthetics. Suffice to say, both are heads above their fellow corporate stable-mates and predasessors.
GM does seem to clearly see and understang the GTO shortcomings and is working aggresively to rectify those and add even more pizzaz, both to the eye and beneath its flanks. The very fact that the GTO margue has been reborn at all in a powerful, fairly sophisticated, V8 RWD coupe is, in itself, a fantastic thing and will harbinger much more for that name in its future, a future that simply didn't exist a year ago.
Yes, it is a bit plain, as was the original GTO so it's pretty true to heritage there. But at least it avoids the clownish overstyling that has afflicted so many GM and Pontiac performance cars.
And yes, the second glovebox, err, trunk is a bit small due to the necessity of moving the gas tank to keep NHTSA happy.
As for the interiors, Mustang vs Goat, I'll have to reserve final judgement till I actually see a Mustang interior in the horse flesh, but presuming its quality is on par with the F150, I would rate it comparable to quality to the GTO and of comparable if different aesthetics. Suffice to say, both are heads above their fellow corporate stable-mates and predasessors.
GM does seem to clearly see and understang the GTO shortcomings and is working aggresively to rectify those and add even more pizzaz, both to the eye and beneath its flanks. The very fact that the GTO margue has been reborn at all in a powerful, fairly sophisticated, V8 RWD coupe is, in itself, a fantastic thing and will harbinger much more for that name in its future, a future that simply didn't exist a year ago.
10/14/04, 08:04 AM
#25
Originally posted by rhumb@October 13, 2004, 7:26 PM
I think one thing people do take for granted regarding the new GTO is that there IS a new GTO at all to kick around, flaws and all. The most likely scenario is that there would be no GTO had it not been for Lutz falling for the Aussie Monaro and pretty much mandating that Pontiac bring it over here.
Yes, it is a bit plain, as was the original GTO so it's pretty true to heritage there. But at least it avoids the clownish overstyling that has afflicted so many GM and Pontiac performance cars.
And yes, the second glovebox, err, trunk is a bit small due to the necessity of moving the gas tank to keep NHTSA happy.
As for the interiors, Mustang vs Goat, I'll have to reserve final judgement till I actually see a Mustang interior in the horse flesh, but presuming its quality is on par with the F150, I would rate it comparable to quality to the GTO and of comparable if different aesthetics. Suffice to say, both are heads above their fellow corporate stable-mates and predasessors.
GM does seem to clearly see and understang the GTO shortcomings and is working aggresively to rectify those and add even more pizzaz, both to the eye and beneath its flanks. The very fact that the GTO margue has been reborn at all in a powerful, fairly sophisticated, V8 RWD coupe is, in itself, a fantastic thing and will harbinger much more for that name in its future, a future that simply didn't exist a year ago.
I think one thing people do take for granted regarding the new GTO is that there IS a new GTO at all to kick around, flaws and all. The most likely scenario is that there would be no GTO had it not been for Lutz falling for the Aussie Monaro and pretty much mandating that Pontiac bring it over here.
Yes, it is a bit plain, as was the original GTO so it's pretty true to heritage there. But at least it avoids the clownish overstyling that has afflicted so many GM and Pontiac performance cars.
And yes, the second glovebox, err, trunk is a bit small due to the necessity of moving the gas tank to keep NHTSA happy.
As for the interiors, Mustang vs Goat, I'll have to reserve final judgement till I actually see a Mustang interior in the horse flesh, but presuming its quality is on par with the F150, I would rate it comparable to quality to the GTO and of comparable if different aesthetics. Suffice to say, both are heads above their fellow corporate stable-mates and predasessors.
GM does seem to clearly see and understang the GTO shortcomings and is working aggresively to rectify those and add even more pizzaz, both to the eye and beneath its flanks. The very fact that the GTO margue has been reborn at all in a powerful, fairly sophisticated, V8 RWD coupe is, in itself, a fantastic thing and will harbinger much more for that name in its future, a future that simply didn't exist a year ago.
C'mon, you know the Pontiac I am referring to. The company that could have rightly been called "Lord of the Driving Lights"...(front and rear btw). The brand that had more ribs in their side cladding than a caterpillar has legs. The brand whose gauge pods most recently looked like a plastic mold of Dolly Parton's most famous asset.
Ten years ago, if Pontiac was out to build or sell a "top performance car" for the brand, the thing would have likely made a Mitsu Evo look as tame as a Volvo. Ironically however, they really did swing too far toward the conservative side of things with the new Goat. But, I'll take it over the overwrought alternative GM would certainly have wrought even in the mid/late ninties.
10/14/04, 10:06 AM
#27
I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again. I have seen at least ten GTO's, which doesn't sound like a lot but when nobody wants them (present company excluded, also explains the $4000 rebate) that's quite a few.
Especially since they were all sitting in Ford used car lots.
Especially since they were all sitting in Ford used car lots.
GTO HATERS
10/15/04, 10:57 AM
#29
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OMG, people are arguing the value of the cars 25 years from now? Neither car will be worth much 20 years from now... Today car companies turn out cars that don't have nearly the life span of the classics. Devaluation of price is rocketing to new levels as more technology, gadets & gizmos are released and added to cars.
Classics IMO are classic because of their design and overall simplicity. Today cars are far to complex to last as long as what we consider a "classic" car. Back in the day when almost anyone could work on the engine because there weren't 50,000 different electrical components and computer systems to muck around with. Really it doesn't matter which car is worth more 25 years from now as long as you selected the car that you enjoy the most.
As far as what I think of the GTO... It is keeping in line with the original. It's just a souped up version of a base Pontiac car. Personally I would have liked too see a more unique design for the GTO but it wouldn't make a ton of sense if they wanted to keep it like the original concept behind the GTO.
IMO: All Pontiac cars a fugly, the new goat included.
Classics IMO are classic because of their design and overall simplicity. Today cars are far to complex to last as long as what we consider a "classic" car. Back in the day when almost anyone could work on the engine because there weren't 50,000 different electrical components and computer systems to muck around with. Really it doesn't matter which car is worth more 25 years from now as long as you selected the car that you enjoy the most.
As far as what I think of the GTO... It is keeping in line with the original. It's just a souped up version of a base Pontiac car. Personally I would have liked too see a more unique design for the GTO but it wouldn't make a ton of sense if they wanted to keep it like the original concept behind the GTO.
IMO: All Pontiac cars a fugly, the new goat included.
10/15/04, 11:10 AM
#30
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They all lose their value because they are overproduced. To be a classic or collector car it has to have serious performance and/or be produced in limited numbers. I just think the GTO is generic looking and the proof is in my other thread, Vauxhall Monaro. GM isn't making any money off of it so they slapped another one of their labels on it to see if it makes them any money overseas.
10/15/04, 05:36 PM
#31
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The 04 GTO will only have about 10,000 produced. Thats far less than the 180,000 Mustangs for 05. Even at max production for 05, they can only build 18,000. I wouldn't call that overproduced.
I'm just glad I'm going to be able to own both!
I'm just glad I'm going to be able to own both!
10/15/04, 08:08 PM
#32
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I got nothing against the Goat. It is a great car on its own IMO. It's great to see that GM brought back a legend, even though some would disagree. I definetely think it has stayed true to its roots, much like the mustang has. I wouldn't mind owning a GTO in my future, but still, it is nothing compared to the stang.
10/15/04, 11:29 PM
#33
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I sat in a GTO earlier this year at a car show. I honestly felt cramped. I don't know if it was the actual size of the cabin, or just the sensation I received while inside, but I felt way too big sitting in it.
The look of the dash, etc. was definitely better than most Pontiacs, but simply because it's not a Pontiac. It's a Holden.
To come here and justify your purchase of a 2004 GTO over a 2005 Mustang GT with false statistics is weak. The new Mustang will be faster, quicker, and nimbler (through most corners) than the 2004 GTO.
The argument that the 2005 GTO will be a better machine and thus justifies his argument is also weak. He didn't buy a 2005 GTO. He bought a 2004 GTO with 50 less horsepower and blander looks.
And that's all he was trying to do here: personally justify his decision and have us play Dr. Phil.
The look of the dash, etc. was definitely better than most Pontiacs, but simply because it's not a Pontiac. It's a Holden.
To come here and justify your purchase of a 2004 GTO over a 2005 Mustang GT with false statistics is weak. The new Mustang will be faster, quicker, and nimbler (through most corners) than the 2004 GTO.
The argument that the 2005 GTO will be a better machine and thus justifies his argument is also weak. He didn't buy a 2005 GTO. He bought a 2004 GTO with 50 less horsepower and blander looks.
And that's all he was trying to do here: personally justify his decision and have us play Dr. Phil.
10/16/04, 02:50 AM
#34
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and..............they would have increased production if there was a reason to, there's not. I guarantee GM would have produced more if they sold out, instead they sit on the lots with serious rebates. I do like the interior and I drove one in Boise but it just didn't do it for me ecspecially when you look at the sticker price.
1/31/05, 06:33 PM
#35
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Remember the Mustang II? Remember the ads: Mustang 2, boredom 0.
I think the GTO is not ugly, but it sure isn't retro like the '05 Mustang. Ford got really lucky and hit this one out of the park...remember the new T-bird is a dud in sales...way overpriced. I think the C6 looks bad but the GTO has some potential...if GM can fit it. Think of the new Camaro. Can GM do to that what Ford did with the Mustang? I didn't like the 94 Mustangs compared to the '94 Camaros. Give the guy a break.
I think the GTO is not ugly, but it sure isn't retro like the '05 Mustang. Ford got really lucky and hit this one out of the park...remember the new T-bird is a dud in sales...way overpriced. I think the C6 looks bad but the GTO has some potential...if GM can fit it. Think of the new Camaro. Can GM do to that what Ford did with the Mustang? I didn't like the 94 Mustangs compared to the '94 Camaros. Give the guy a break.
1/31/05, 11:35 PM
#37
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well congrats on ur car buddy 
if you like it thats all that matters.
i for one think the GTO is a great car, but a bit on the pricey car (not a prob for u, asfter the rebates n stuff) abd its not ugly just boring.
if the styling was just that more agressive it would be a hit.
and all u goat haters out there think of it this way, the more RWD v8 muscle cars on the road, the more inovations for that market. just a though
and yes i do regard it as a Muscle Car. the Aussies know how to do it right if u disagree check out the falcon my friend. plus, like Canadians 
they're some of the friendliest ppl around
EDIT post count 1989! :w00t: best year ever
dont make me explain it
if you like it thats all that matters.i for one think the GTO is a great car, but a bit on the pricey car (not a prob for u, asfter the rebates n stuff) abd its not ugly just boring.
if the styling was just that more agressive it would be a hit.
and all u goat haters out there think of it this way, the more RWD v8 muscle cars on the road, the more inovations for that market. just a though
and yes i do regard it as a Muscle Car. the Aussies know how to do it right
if u disagree check out the falcon my friend. plus, like Canadians they're some of the friendliest ppl around EDIT post count 1989! :w00t: best year ever
dont make me explain it
2/11/05, 12:57 PM
#39
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Just because there are not that many GTO's doesn't mean it will be worth more in 25 years. The value of the car in 25 years depends on the supply and the demand. If no one wants them then the value drops. Heck, no one wants one now, why would they in 25 years. I don't see a whole lot of AMC Gremlins at car auctions.
2/11/05, 02:44 PM
#40
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Let's see what we've got here....on one hand we have the hottest car introduction ever with the Mustang (twice, if you count both the '05 and 64.5 model years of the Mustang). If you have an '04 GTO, performance will lag behind the '05 Mustang GT, if you have an '05 GTO, performance numbers will be about the same as a Mustang GT.
What else do we have here....$1,300 gas guzzler tax on the GTO....that's certainly money wasted as it will not benefit anyone come re-sale time (except be a big negative for the new GTO owner). "04 model was steeply discounted (probably biggest rebates GM has ever offered on any car due to slow sales. Still couldn't clear all of the remaining stock off the lots. NO reason to think the '05 model will do substantially better. Buying public must have rejected it is the only think I can think. Not a good sign for resale or collectability.
Hmmmmm, let me think for a second which car I'd rather have.....times up.....Mustang wins in a landslide.
What else do we have here....$1,300 gas guzzler tax on the GTO....that's certainly money wasted as it will not benefit anyone come re-sale time (except be a big negative for the new GTO owner). "04 model was steeply discounted (probably biggest rebates GM has ever offered on any car due to slow sales. Still couldn't clear all of the remaining stock off the lots. NO reason to think the '05 model will do substantially better. Buying public must have rejected it is the only think I can think. Not a good sign for resale or collectability.
Hmmmmm, let me think for a second which car I'd rather have.....times up.....Mustang wins in a landslide.