Big 3 quality gains on rivals
6/30/05, 12:56 PM
#1
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0.../B01-232784.htm
I think it's interesting that Lincoln beat Toyota and was nearly as good as Lexus, Mercury virtually tied them, and Ford was just slightly behind them. Good job Ford! 
Big 3 quality gains on rivals
Overall industry: Reliability up, but some upscale brands lag
By Ed Garsten / The Detroit News
Top models in key segments
Compact car: Chevrolet Prizm
Entry midsize car: Chevrolet Malibu
Premium midsize car: Buick Century
Full-size car: Buick LeSabre
Entry luxury car: Ford Thunderbird
Midsize luxury car: Lincoln Town Car
Premium luxury car: Lexus LS 430
Sports car: Mazda Miata
Premium sports car: Porsche 911
Midsize pickup: Chevrolet S-10 pickup
Full-size pickup: Cadillac Escalade EXT
Entry SUV: Honda CR-V
Midsize SUV: Toyota 4Runner
Full-size SUV: GMC Yukon/Yukon XL
Entry luxury SUV: Lexus RX 300
Premium luxury SUV: Lexus LX 470
Minivan: Ford Windstar
Source: J.D. Power and Associates
Brand rankings
J.D. Power and Associates on Wednesday released its annual survey of vehicle dependability based on questionnaires sent to owners of 2002 model year vehicles. The list ranks vehicle brands by the problems their owners reported per 100 vehicles.
Brand Problems per 100 vehicles
Lexus 139
Porsche 149
Lincoln 151
Buick 163
Cadillac 175
Infiniti 178
Toyota 194
Mercury 195
Honda 201
Acura 203
BMW 225
Ford 231
Chevrolet 232
Chrysler 235
INDUSTRY AVERAGE 237
Saturn 240
Oldsmobile 242
GMC 245
Pontiac 245
Mazda 252
Hyundai 260
Subaru 260
Volvo 266
Jaguar 268
Dodge 273
Nissan 275
Mitsubishi 278
Mercedes-Benz 283
Saab 286
Jeep 289
Suzuki 292
Audi 312
Daewoo 318
Isuzu 331
Volkswagen 335
Mini 383
Land Rover 395
Kia 397
Source: J.D. Power and Associates.
Detroit's automakers are making major gains in long-term vehicle durability with General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. finishing best in a record number of product segments and closing the gap with foreign rivals, according to an industry study released Wednesday.
Almost every automaker made significant strides in J.D. Power and Associates' Vehicle Dependability Study released Wednesday. The industry average improved 12 percent to 2.4 problems per vehicle, from 2.7 problems a year ago, according to the survey, which tracked problems reported by 50,635 original owners of 2002 model year cars and trucks.
The gains by Detroit's automakers show that recent quality improvement efforts are starting to bear fruit. U.S. automakers took the top spot in 12 of 19 vehicle segments, compared with 7 of 17 product categories a year ago.
Toyota Motor Co.'s Lexus division -- with about 1.4 problems per vehicle -- was the highest scoring brand for the 11th consecutive year. But other upscale brands -- Volvo, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Jaguar and Land Rover -- continue to struggle and score below the industry average.
Long-term quality and reliability are crucial to generating loyal customers and lowering warranty costs for all automakers. J.D. Power said 84 percent of all 2002 models surveyed showed year-over-year improvements in reliability after three years of ownership. And the difference between the top-ranked brand -- Lexus, with 1.39 problems per 2002 model -- and the worst brand -- Kia, with 3.97 problems per model -- narrowed by nearly 17 percent, the company said.
Consumers were polled on 147 attributes and the study found improvements in 74 areas.
"The most improvement came in ride, handling, braking, engine and interior," said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis at J.D. Power, referring to the overall industry improvement.
Wind noise, a perennial bugaboo of consumers, was the top complaint, followed by noisy brakes, uneven tire wear, excessive brake dust and vibrating brakes.
For GM, which has struggled to convince consumers its quality problems are behind it, despite gains in initial and long-term quality studies over the past few years, the results are especially heartening.
"Customer perception has lagged reality," said Annette Clayton, GM North America vice president of quality.
"The results are proof of what we've been saying all along, that our quality is good and has improved."
GM models finished on top in eight segments, and the automaker placed 18 vehicles in the top three of the segments surveyed -- the most by any manufacturer.
Winners included the Cadillac Escalade EXT in the light-duty, full-size pickup segment; the Chevrolet Silverado in the heavy-duty, full-size pickup segment; and the Buick Century among premium midsize cars. Chevrolet won in four segments, and was among the brands scoring better than the industry average with 2.3 problems per vehicle, compared to 2.6 in last year's study.
GM's Buick brand placed fourth behind Lexus, Porsche and Ford's Lincoln brand. The only GM brand that lost ground was Saab, with 2.9 problems per vehicle, compared with 2.6 problems per model last year.
Ford, which also is trying to improve quality, had the top vehicles in four segments -- including the Ford Windstar in the minivan segment and the Lincoln Town Car in the mid-luxury car segment.
Ford, Lincoln and Mercury each scored better than the industry average, while Ford's foreign nameplates, such as Jaguar and Land Rover, fell below the benchmark.
Lincoln owners reported 1.5 problems per vehicle, while Mercury owners reported 1.9 problems, and Ford customers reported 2.3 problems per model.
"What we will do is continue to fix and uncover (problems) until we are consistently placed as a leader among all manufacturers," said Deborah Coleman, Ford vice president of global quality.
Toyota, long the company setting the quality benchmark, won in four segments.
Customers reported 1.9 problems per Toyota model, compared with 2.2 in last year's study. At Lexus, owners reported 1.4 problems per vehicle, an improvement over 1.6 problems last year.
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands all improved, with Chrysler scoring just above the industry average with 2.3 problems per vehicle. The Dodge Ram van, now discontinued, and Jeep Liberty were among the top three models in their segments.
The positive showing for Detroit automakers comes at a time when Asian brands, perceived by consumers to produce better quality vehicles, are gaining market share in the United States.
Detroit automakers have seen their grip on the U.S. market slip to 57.4 percent this year from 59.2 percent last year, while Asian automakers have increased their U.S. market share to 36.5 percent from 34.3 percent.
J.D. Powers's Oddes says domestic brands have closed the quality gap in both initial and long-term quality by shoring up design and manufacturing processes, and by listening more closely to consumer feedback.
"Those manufacturers take that information and they design, right at the beginning of a products' lifecycle, not only for short-term quality, but we see that now translating into long-term durability," Oddes said.
GM's Clayton contends there is no difference in quality between the automaker's product lineup and Asian models, saying "the gap is closed."
While still falling below the industry average at 2.6 problems per vehicle, South Korean automaker Hyundai Motor Co. showed the biggest improvement of any brand. In last year's study, Hyundai customers reported 3.8 problems per vehicle.
On a percentage basis, the German Porsche brand, which came in second to Lexus, was the most improved with just 1.5 problems reported per vehicle compared with 2.4 last year.
At the bottom of the list was Kia, with 3.97 problems per vehicle, and Land Rover, with 3.95.
Gains in long-term durability not only improve customer satisfaction, along with vehicle and brand image, it can bolster a vehicle's value.
Data gathered by the Power Information Network, a division of J.D. Power, found that vehicles performing above the industry average in the dependability study typically retain $1,000 more of their value than brands falling below the benchmark.
You can reach Ed Garsten at (313) 223-3217 or egarsten@detnews.com.
Overall industry: Reliability up, but some upscale brands lag
By Ed Garsten / The Detroit News
Top models in key segments
Compact car: Chevrolet Prizm
Entry midsize car: Chevrolet Malibu
Premium midsize car: Buick Century
Full-size car: Buick LeSabre
Entry luxury car: Ford Thunderbird
Midsize luxury car: Lincoln Town Car
Premium luxury car: Lexus LS 430
Sports car: Mazda Miata
Premium sports car: Porsche 911
Midsize pickup: Chevrolet S-10 pickup
Full-size pickup: Cadillac Escalade EXT
Entry SUV: Honda CR-V
Midsize SUV: Toyota 4Runner
Full-size SUV: GMC Yukon/Yukon XL
Entry luxury SUV: Lexus RX 300
Premium luxury SUV: Lexus LX 470
Minivan: Ford Windstar
Source: J.D. Power and Associates
Brand rankings
J.D. Power and Associates on Wednesday released its annual survey of vehicle dependability based on questionnaires sent to owners of 2002 model year vehicles. The list ranks vehicle brands by the problems their owners reported per 100 vehicles.
Brand Problems per 100 vehicles
Lexus 139
Porsche 149
Lincoln 151
Buick 163
Cadillac 175
Infiniti 178
Toyota 194
Mercury 195
Honda 201
Acura 203
BMW 225
Ford 231
Chevrolet 232
Chrysler 235
INDUSTRY AVERAGE 237
Saturn 240
Oldsmobile 242
GMC 245
Pontiac 245
Mazda 252
Hyundai 260
Subaru 260
Volvo 266
Jaguar 268
Dodge 273
Nissan 275
Mitsubishi 278
Mercedes-Benz 283
Saab 286
Jeep 289
Suzuki 292
Audi 312
Daewoo 318
Isuzu 331
Volkswagen 335
Mini 383
Land Rover 395
Kia 397
Source: J.D. Power and Associates.
Detroit's automakers are making major gains in long-term vehicle durability with General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. finishing best in a record number of product segments and closing the gap with foreign rivals, according to an industry study released Wednesday.
Almost every automaker made significant strides in J.D. Power and Associates' Vehicle Dependability Study released Wednesday. The industry average improved 12 percent to 2.4 problems per vehicle, from 2.7 problems a year ago, according to the survey, which tracked problems reported by 50,635 original owners of 2002 model year cars and trucks.
The gains by Detroit's automakers show that recent quality improvement efforts are starting to bear fruit. U.S. automakers took the top spot in 12 of 19 vehicle segments, compared with 7 of 17 product categories a year ago.
Toyota Motor Co.'s Lexus division -- with about 1.4 problems per vehicle -- was the highest scoring brand for the 11th consecutive year. But other upscale brands -- Volvo, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Jaguar and Land Rover -- continue to struggle and score below the industry average.
Long-term quality and reliability are crucial to generating loyal customers and lowering warranty costs for all automakers. J.D. Power said 84 percent of all 2002 models surveyed showed year-over-year improvements in reliability after three years of ownership. And the difference between the top-ranked brand -- Lexus, with 1.39 problems per 2002 model -- and the worst brand -- Kia, with 3.97 problems per model -- narrowed by nearly 17 percent, the company said.
Consumers were polled on 147 attributes and the study found improvements in 74 areas.
"The most improvement came in ride, handling, braking, engine and interior," said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis at J.D. Power, referring to the overall industry improvement.
Wind noise, a perennial bugaboo of consumers, was the top complaint, followed by noisy brakes, uneven tire wear, excessive brake dust and vibrating brakes.
For GM, which has struggled to convince consumers its quality problems are behind it, despite gains in initial and long-term quality studies over the past few years, the results are especially heartening.
"Customer perception has lagged reality," said Annette Clayton, GM North America vice president of quality.
"The results are proof of what we've been saying all along, that our quality is good and has improved."
GM models finished on top in eight segments, and the automaker placed 18 vehicles in the top three of the segments surveyed -- the most by any manufacturer.
Winners included the Cadillac Escalade EXT in the light-duty, full-size pickup segment; the Chevrolet Silverado in the heavy-duty, full-size pickup segment; and the Buick Century among premium midsize cars. Chevrolet won in four segments, and was among the brands scoring better than the industry average with 2.3 problems per vehicle, compared to 2.6 in last year's study.
GM's Buick brand placed fourth behind Lexus, Porsche and Ford's Lincoln brand. The only GM brand that lost ground was Saab, with 2.9 problems per vehicle, compared with 2.6 problems per model last year.
Ford, which also is trying to improve quality, had the top vehicles in four segments -- including the Ford Windstar in the minivan segment and the Lincoln Town Car in the mid-luxury car segment.
Ford, Lincoln and Mercury each scored better than the industry average, while Ford's foreign nameplates, such as Jaguar and Land Rover, fell below the benchmark.
Lincoln owners reported 1.5 problems per vehicle, while Mercury owners reported 1.9 problems, and Ford customers reported 2.3 problems per model.
"What we will do is continue to fix and uncover (problems) until we are consistently placed as a leader among all manufacturers," said Deborah Coleman, Ford vice president of global quality.
Toyota, long the company setting the quality benchmark, won in four segments.
Customers reported 1.9 problems per Toyota model, compared with 2.2 in last year's study. At Lexus, owners reported 1.4 problems per vehicle, an improvement over 1.6 problems last year.
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands all improved, with Chrysler scoring just above the industry average with 2.3 problems per vehicle. The Dodge Ram van, now discontinued, and Jeep Liberty were among the top three models in their segments.
The positive showing for Detroit automakers comes at a time when Asian brands, perceived by consumers to produce better quality vehicles, are gaining market share in the United States.
Detroit automakers have seen their grip on the U.S. market slip to 57.4 percent this year from 59.2 percent last year, while Asian automakers have increased their U.S. market share to 36.5 percent from 34.3 percent.
J.D. Powers's Oddes says domestic brands have closed the quality gap in both initial and long-term quality by shoring up design and manufacturing processes, and by listening more closely to consumer feedback.
"Those manufacturers take that information and they design, right at the beginning of a products' lifecycle, not only for short-term quality, but we see that now translating into long-term durability," Oddes said.
GM's Clayton contends there is no difference in quality between the automaker's product lineup and Asian models, saying "the gap is closed."
While still falling below the industry average at 2.6 problems per vehicle, South Korean automaker Hyundai Motor Co. showed the biggest improvement of any brand. In last year's study, Hyundai customers reported 3.8 problems per vehicle.
On a percentage basis, the German Porsche brand, which came in second to Lexus, was the most improved with just 1.5 problems reported per vehicle compared with 2.4 last year.
At the bottom of the list was Kia, with 3.97 problems per vehicle, and Land Rover, with 3.95.
Gains in long-term durability not only improve customer satisfaction, along with vehicle and brand image, it can bolster a vehicle's value.
Data gathered by the Power Information Network, a division of J.D. Power, found that vehicles performing above the industry average in the dependability study typically retain $1,000 more of their value than brands falling below the benchmark.
You can reach Ed Garsten at (313) 223-3217 or egarsten@detnews.com.
6/30/05, 01:27 PM
#3
Team Mustang Source
Join Date: March 30, 2005
Posts: 3,639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it's interesting that Lincoln beat Toyota and was nearly as good as Lexus, Mercury virtually tied them, and Ford was just slightly behind them. Good job Ford!
I also know when you start looking at quality indicators, almost all manufacturers are so statistically close now, it's really just symantics on which is best
I was very proud to see Ford taking 4 spots too. Way to go blue oval power
Our boys are doing us proud!
6/30/05, 01:47 PM
#4
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
I was a little disappointed that Mazda was below the industry average. My Mazda6 has been bulletproof. I haven't been back to the dealership for anything since I bought it. I was nice to see the Miata the leader in its segment though.
6/30/05, 02:07 PM
#5
TMS Post # 1,000,000
Serbian Steamer
Serbian Steamer
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Location: Wisconsin / Serbia
Posts: 12,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wrote this before and here its again:
It all depends how big those problems are. Its not the same when you have problem with engine and problems with CD player. That's why I don't like those web sites that say how many problems people reported. Some people don't know the basics about cars and they get flat tire and they report that as a problem.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
Buick, for example, is driven mostly by old people. And we all know how they drive them, so no wonder they don't have many problems.
By the way, what happen with "Subaru is most reliable car now"?
It all depends how big those problems are. Its not the same when you have problem with engine and problems with CD player. That's why I don't like those web sites that say how many problems people reported. Some people don't know the basics about cars and they get flat tire and they report that as a problem.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
Buick, for example, is driven mostly by old people. And we all know how they drive them, so no wonder they don't have many problems.
By the way, what happen with "Subaru is most reliable car now"?
6/30/05, 02:26 PM
#6
Team Mustang Source
Join Date: March 30, 2005
Posts: 3,639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Red Star@June 30, 2005, 4:10 PM
I wrote this before and here its again:
It all depends how big those problems are. Its not the same when you have problem with engine and problems with CD player. That's why I don't like those web sites that say how many problems people reported. Some people don't know the basics about cars and they get flat tire and they report that as a problem.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
Buick, for example, is driven mostly by old people. And we all know how they drive them, so no wonder they don't have many problems.
By the way, what happen with "Subaru is most reliable car now"?
I wrote this before and here its again:
It all depends how big those problems are. Its not the same when you have problem with engine and problems with CD player. That's why I don't like those web sites that say how many problems people reported. Some people don't know the basics about cars and they get flat tire and they report that as a problem.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
Buick, for example, is driven mostly by old people. And we all know how they drive them, so no wonder they don't have many problems.
By the way, what happen with "Subaru is most reliable car now"?
Second Zoran, if you have nothing positive to say, don't say anything at all. Once again you hijack a topic.
No one put down you're toyota but you insist on thinking so and throwing around insults. Completely uncalled for
Consider this reported
6/30/05, 02:31 PM
#7
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Red Star@June 30, 2005, 3:10 PM
I wrote this before and here its again:
It all depends how big those problems are. Its not the same when you have problem with engine and problems with CD player. That's why I don't like those web sites that say how many problems people reported. Some people don't know the basics about cars and they get flat tire and they report that as a problem.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
Buick, for example, is driven mostly by old people. And we all know how they drive them, so no wonder they don't have many problems.
By the way, what happen with "Subaru is most reliable car now"?
I wrote this before and here its again:
It all depends how big those problems are. Its not the same when you have problem with engine and problems with CD player. That's why I don't like those web sites that say how many problems people reported. Some people don't know the basics about cars and they get flat tire and they report that as a problem.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
Buick, for example, is driven mostly by old people. And we all know how they drive them, so no wonder they don't have many problems.
By the way, what happen with "Subaru is most reliable car now"?
6/30/05, 02:33 PM
#8
Team Mustang Source
Join Date: March 30, 2005
Posts: 3,639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by TomServo92@June 30, 2005, 4:34 PM
So what you're saying is that the industry recognized JD Power ratings have no real value? Right.....
So what you're saying is that the industry recognized JD Power ratings have no real value? Right.....
6/30/05, 02:34 PM
#9
TMS Post # 1,000,000
Serbian Steamer
Serbian Steamer
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Location: Wisconsin / Serbia
Posts: 12,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@June 30, 2005, 2:29 PM
Well Zoran, you insist on going by CR and rated them the "Most reliable car company" for 2004. Call them if you would like.
Second Zoran, if you have nothing positive to say, don't say anything at all. Once again you hijack a topic.
No one put down you're toyota but you insist on thinking so and throwing around insults. Completely uncalled for Consider this reported
Well Zoran, you insist on going by CR and rated them the "Most reliable car company" for 2004. Call them if you would like.
Second Zoran, if you have nothing positive to say, don't say anything at all. Once again you hijack a topic.
No one put down you're toyota but you insist on thinking so and throwing around insults. Completely uncalled for
Consider this reported
6/30/05, 02:36 PM
#10
TMS Post # 1,000,000
Serbian Steamer
Serbian Steamer
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Location: Wisconsin / Serbia
Posts: 12,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by TomServo92@June 30, 2005, 2:34 PM
So what you're saying is that the industry recognized JD Power ratings have no real value? Right.....
So what you're saying is that the industry recognized JD Power ratings have no real value? Right.....
It all depends how big those problems are. Its not the same when you have problem with engine and problems with CD player. That's why I don't like those web sites that say how many problems people reported. Some people don't know the basics about cars and they get flat tire and they report that as a problem.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
6/30/05, 02:37 PM
#11
Team Mustang Source
Join Date: March 30, 2005
Posts: 3,639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zoran, as I just said. You talk about CR a lot, which is a great source, so I looked up the info on most reliable car company for 2004 and their choice was Subaru. I stated what they said and that is all. I have no control as to what JD Power rates them as, I simply gave you what CR said, that is all.
I think you are taking this way too personally and out of context.
I think you are taking this way too personally and out of context.
6/30/05, 02:41 PM
#12
TMS Post # 1,000,000
Serbian Steamer
Serbian Steamer
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Location: Wisconsin / Serbia
Posts: 12,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@June 30, 2005, 2:40 PM
Zoran, as I just said. You talk about CR a lot, which is a great source, so I looked up the info on most reliable car company for 2004 and their choice was Subaru. I stated what they said and that is all. I have no control as to what JD Power rates them as, I simply gave you what CR said, that is all.
I think you are taking this way too personally and out of context.
Zoran, as I just said. You talk about CR a lot, which is a great source, so I looked up the info on most reliable car company for 2004 and their choice was Subaru. I stated what they said and that is all. I have no control as to what JD Power rates them as, I simply gave you what CR said, that is all.
I think you are taking this way too personally and out of context.
6/30/05, 02:42 PM
#13
Team Mustang Source
Join Date: March 30, 2005
Posts: 3,639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Red Star@June 30, 2005, 4:44 PM
What is CR? How can I be using that when I don't even know what that is?
What is CR? How can I be using that when I don't even know what that is?
6/30/05, 02:44 PM
#14
TMS Post # 1,000,000
Serbian Steamer
Serbian Steamer
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Location: Wisconsin / Serbia
Posts: 12,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@June 30, 2005, 2:45 PM
It is short for Consumer Reports.
It is short for Consumer Reports.
6/30/05, 02:47 PM
#15
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Red Star@June 30, 2005, 3:39 PM
Yes, that is what I'm saying and I wrote you reason why. In case you haven't read it, here is again:
It all depends how big those problems are. Its not the same when you have problem with engine and problems with CD player. That's why I don't like those web sites that say how many problems people reported. Some people don't know the basics about cars and they get flat tire and they report that as a problem.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
Yes, that is what I'm saying and I wrote you reason why. In case you haven't read it, here is again:
It all depends how big those problems are. Its not the same when you have problem with engine and problems with CD player. That's why I don't like those web sites that say how many problems people reported. Some people don't know the basics about cars and they get flat tire and they report that as a problem.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
6/30/05, 02:50 PM
#16
TMS Post # 1,000,000
Serbian Steamer
Serbian Steamer
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Location: Wisconsin / Serbia
Posts: 12,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by TomServo92@June 30, 2005, 2:50 PM
Well, I guess you know more about it than the entire automotive industry (among others)!
Well, I guess you know more about it than the entire automotive industry (among others)!
Do you really think its fair to put $30 problem and $3,000 problem in the same group, count them as 1 problem each and then said this car company is more relaiable than other car company because they have less problems?
6/30/05, 02:54 PM
#18
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Originally posted by Red Star@June 30, 2005, 2:53 PM
I guess I do.
Do you really think its fair to put $30 problem and $3,000 problem in the same group, count them as 1 problem each and then said this car company is more relaiable than other car company because they have less problems?
I guess I do.
Do you really think its fair to put $30 problem and $3,000 problem in the same group, count them as 1 problem each and then said this car company is more relaiable than other car company because they have less problems?
6/30/05, 02:55 PM
#19
Legacy TMS Member
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Red Star@June 30, 2005, 3:53 PM
I guess I do.
Do you really think its fair to put $30 problem and $3,000 problem in the same group, count them as 1 problem each and then said this car company is more relaiable than other car company because they have less problems?
I guess I do.
Do you really think its fair to put $30 problem and $3,000 problem in the same group, count them as 1 problem each and then said this car company is more relaiable than other car company because they have less problems?