2007 Toyota Camry
6/26/05, 02:00 PM
#21
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Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@June 26, 2005, 1:51 PM
Toyota has no ground to stand on right now. They have faltered in both safety and reliability not a good combo.
Toyota has no ground to stand on right now. They have faltered in both safety and reliability not a good combo.
You wanna talk about recalls? This year Ford already recalled F-Series and E-Series SD, F-150, Navigator, Expedition, Excursion, Crown Victoria and Focus, and last year Ford recalled over 1.2 million Taurus/Sables.
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
Enjoy.
6/26/05, 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@June 26, 2005, 1:51 PM
.
If this topic is to remain open Zoran we must agree to disagree. I do not want it to be closed but I think we need to set aside the differences and just say we have different opinions about our vehicles.
I understand that you don't mean to come across pushy, sometimes I forget that english is not your first language.
Cheers
Andy
.
If this topic is to remain open Zoran we must agree to disagree. I do not want it to be closed but I think we need to set aside the differences and just say we have different opinions about our vehicles.
I understand that you don't mean to come across pushy, sometimes I forget that english is not your first language.
Cheers
Andy
6/26/05, 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Red Star@June 26, 2005, 4:03 PM
What realiability are you talking about? Do you think that Focus is better than Corrola or that 500 is better than Camry? It never was it never will be. Lexus already passed Mercedes which until recently was #1 luxury car in the world. Toyota passed Ford and Chrysler and they will pass GM in few years. Doesn't that tell you everything? What company did what Toyota did in the past 20 years? They passed Chrysler and Ford in their own country and they passed Mercedes.
You wanna talk about recalls? This year Ford already recalled F-Series and E-Series SD, F-150, Navigator, Expedition, Excursion, Crown Victoria and Focus, and last year Ford recalled over 1.2 million Taurus/Sables.
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
Enjoy.
What realiability are you talking about? Do you think that Focus is better than Corrola or that 500 is better than Camry? It never was it never will be. Lexus already passed Mercedes which until recently was #1 luxury car in the world. Toyota passed Ford and Chrysler and they will pass GM in few years. Doesn't that tell you everything? What company did what Toyota did in the past 20 years? They passed Chrysler and Ford in their own country and they passed Mercedes.
You wanna talk about recalls? This year Ford already recalled F-Series and E-Series SD, F-150, Navigator, Expedition, Excursion, Crown Victoria and Focus, and last year Ford recalled over 1.2 million Taurus/Sables.
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
Enjoy.
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail...D=1119816377769
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail...D=1119816426235
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail...D=1119816377771
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail...D=1119816377772
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail...D=1119816524523
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail...D=1119816524526
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail...D=1119816524527
and these are without the new recalls that have not yet been posted Zoran.
Yes the Focus is safer than the Corolla which is more important to me.
I just now saw you're post and have read it. Why they close them is that they run their course. We both have good arguments but we need to stop now before it does get out of hand. Disagreeing is okay but to a point where it gets pointless
6/26/05, 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@June 26, 2005, 2:14 PM
This discussion was about new MY cars not previous MY Zoran. Look at all the safety issues going on now. Failing side crash test (corrolla, camry) rollover test (tacoma). But here are some toyo recalls for you.
This discussion was about new MY cars not previous MY Zoran. Look at all the safety issues going on now. Failing side crash test (corrolla, camry) rollover test (tacoma). But here are some toyo recalls for you.
'97 Lexus ES300, Toyota Avalon, and Toyota Camry (18,746 cars)
'95-98 Toyota Camry and '94-98 Lexus ES300 (540,037 cars)
'97 Toyota Camry (18,746 cars)
'02 Lexus ES300 and Toyota Camry (19,587 cars)
’96-98 Toyota 4Runner
’01-’03 Toyota Tacoma
Interesting thing is, Camry was still best seller during those years.
How about this?
CLICK HERE
6/26/05, 02:22 PM
#26
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Originally posted by scottie1113@June 26, 2005, 2:21 PM
You guys really should take this to IM.
You guys really should take this to IM.
6/26/05, 02:36 PM
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IM stands for Instant Messenger or Personal Message and Scottie1113 is correct.
I am logging off but this needs to be closed. I respect your opinions but do not agree with them Zoran. I have made my points over and again and I stand by them and others who gave given me their opinions.
6/26/05, 02:45 PM
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Fine, cool with me.
Just do one thing, I forgot to mention this earlier. Go to www.carsurvey.org and read reviews of real owners. If you don't believe what I'm saying, maybe you'll believe what other people say.
Just do one thing, I forgot to mention this earlier. Go to www.carsurvey.org and read reviews of real owners. If you don't believe what I'm saying, maybe you'll believe what other people say.
6/26/05, 02:49 PM
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I will check that out Zoran. I believe what I have heard from both car company owners and tend to go towards Ford.
I will look at that, and I would appreciate it if you looked at Strategic Visions site.
Take it easy,
Andy
I will look at that, and I would appreciate it if you looked at Strategic Visions site.
Take it easy,
Andy
6/26/05, 03:09 PM
#30
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I think you're having a hard-time making ground because you're stating opinion as facts. For instance, the big three are still the big three based on full years stats for 2004. For 2005, Toyota still won't pass Ford as a brand in total sales.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0...autos-50102.htm
Toyota HAS passed Ford in passenger vehicle sales (i.e. no SUV's, trucks, etc. counted), but that is when comparing directly brands: I.e. Toyota to Chevy To Ford, etc. Not as complete brand families. But that's been true for awhile. Ford for a long while has concentrated on Pick-ups and SUV's.
Do I think Ford is perfect? No. I also realize Toyota isn't leaps and bounds better either. I also know when you start looking at quality indicators, almost all manufacturers are so statistically close now, it's really just symantics on which is best. Much of what people work with is perception.
Problems per 100 vehicles for Toyota is reported at 105. For Ford it's 127. So, yes 22 more problems per each 100 cars. However, when your chance of having an issue is 105% as opposed to 127%, what's the difference? The two best performing brands? Lexus at 81, and Jaguar at 88. Jaguar is a "Ford" brand. Scion, a Toyota brand, is down toward the bottom of the list. Let's see what 2005 holds, since Ford retired several older designs.
It all comes down to personal opinion. We can all agree to disagree, and carry on. And remember to state opinions as opinions.
I'm not closing the thread yet, as long as we can all be civil. Of course, I could be overruled.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0...autos-50102.htm
Toyota HAS passed Ford in passenger vehicle sales (i.e. no SUV's, trucks, etc. counted), but that is when comparing directly brands: I.e. Toyota to Chevy To Ford, etc. Not as complete brand families. But that's been true for awhile. Ford for a long while has concentrated on Pick-ups and SUV's.
Do I think Ford is perfect? No. I also realize Toyota isn't leaps and bounds better either. I also know when you start looking at quality indicators, almost all manufacturers are so statistically close now, it's really just symantics on which is best. Much of what people work with is perception.
Problems per 100 vehicles for Toyota is reported at 105. For Ford it's 127. So, yes 22 more problems per each 100 cars. However, when your chance of having an issue is 105% as opposed to 127%, what's the difference? The two best performing brands? Lexus at 81, and Jaguar at 88. Jaguar is a "Ford" brand. Scion, a Toyota brand, is down toward the bottom of the list. Let's see what 2005 holds, since Ford retired several older designs.
It all comes down to personal opinion. We can all agree to disagree, and carry on. And remember to state opinions as opinions.
I'm not closing the thread yet, as long as we can all be civil. Of course, I could be overruled.
6/26/05, 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by JeffreyDJ@June 26, 2005, 3:12 PM
Problems per 100 vehicles for Toyota is reported at 105. For Ford it's 127. So, yes 22 more problems per each 100 cars. However, when your chance of having an issue is 105% as opposed to 127%, what's the difference? The two best performing brands? Lexus at 81, and Jaguar at 88. Jaguar is a "Ford" brand. Scion, a Toyota brand, is down toward the bottom of the list. Let's see what 2005 holds, since Ford retired several older designs.
It all comes down to personal opinion. We can all agree to disagree, and carry on. And remember to state opinions as opinions.
I'm not closing the thread yet, as long as we can all be civil. Of course, I could be overruled.
Problems per 100 vehicles for Toyota is reported at 105. For Ford it's 127. So, yes 22 more problems per each 100 cars. However, when your chance of having an issue is 105% as opposed to 127%, what's the difference? The two best performing brands? Lexus at 81, and Jaguar at 88. Jaguar is a "Ford" brand. Scion, a Toyota brand, is down toward the bottom of the list. Let's see what 2005 holds, since Ford retired several older designs.
It all comes down to personal opinion. We can all agree to disagree, and carry on. And remember to state opinions as opinions.
I'm not closing the thread yet, as long as we can all be civil. Of course, I could be overruled.
Right now cassette player on my Camry is not working, it didn't work when I bought it. Do I care? No. I could easily buy new one for $30. But when water pump destroyed half of engine in Intrepid I did care because I had to spent $1,000 to fix it. And guess what, those web sites would give 1 problem for Camry and 1 problem for Intrepid, even though Intrepid's problem costed 35 times more to fix.
6/26/05, 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by JeffreyDJ@June 26, 2005, 5:12 PM
I think you're having a hard-time making ground because you're stating opinion as facts. For instance, the big three are still the big three based on full years stats for 2004. For 2005, Toyota still won't pass Ford as a brand in total sales.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0...autos-50102.htm
Toyota HAS passed Ford in passenger vehicle sales (i.e. no SUV's, trucks, etc. counted), but that is when comparing directly brands: I.e. Toyota to Chevy To Ford, etc. Not as complete brand families. But that's been true for awhile. Ford for a long while has concentrated on Pick-ups and SUV's.
Do I think Ford is perfect? No. I also realize Toyota isn't leaps and bounds better either. I also know when you start looking at quality indicators, almost all manufacturers are so statistically close now, it's really just symantics on which is best. Much of what people work with is perception.
Problems per 100 vehicles for Toyota is reported at 105. For Ford it's 127. So, yes 22 more problems per each 100 cars. However, when your chance of having an issue is 105% as opposed to 127%, what's the difference? The two best performing brands? Lexus at 81, and Jaguar at 88. Jaguar is a "Ford" brand. Scion, a Toyota brand, is down toward the bottom of the list. Let's see what 2005 holds, since Ford retired several older designs.
It all comes down to personal opinion. We can all agree to disagree, and carry on. And remember to state opinions as opinions.
I'm not closing the thread yet, as long as we can all be civil. Of course, I could be overruled.
I think you're having a hard-time making ground because you're stating opinion as facts. For instance, the big three are still the big three based on full years stats for 2004. For 2005, Toyota still won't pass Ford as a brand in total sales.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0...autos-50102.htm
Toyota HAS passed Ford in passenger vehicle sales (i.e. no SUV's, trucks, etc. counted), but that is when comparing directly brands: I.e. Toyota to Chevy To Ford, etc. Not as complete brand families. But that's been true for awhile. Ford for a long while has concentrated on Pick-ups and SUV's.
Do I think Ford is perfect? No. I also realize Toyota isn't leaps and bounds better either. I also know when you start looking at quality indicators, almost all manufacturers are so statistically close now, it's really just symantics on which is best. Much of what people work with is perception.
Problems per 100 vehicles for Toyota is reported at 105. For Ford it's 127. So, yes 22 more problems per each 100 cars. However, when your chance of having an issue is 105% as opposed to 127%, what's the difference? The two best performing brands? Lexus at 81, and Jaguar at 88. Jaguar is a "Ford" brand. Scion, a Toyota brand, is down toward the bottom of the list. Let's see what 2005 holds, since Ford retired several older designs.
It all comes down to personal opinion. We can all agree to disagree, and carry on. And remember to state opinions as opinions.
I'm not closing the thread yet, as long as we can all be civil. Of course, I could be overruled.
Input is good! 
I totally agree with your comment about agreeing to disagree Jeff. I don't think Ford is perfect, but they're still my favorite. I know that Subaru is a much better company for example. But the reason I like them so much is that they have built a trust with me, while on the other hand Toyota hasn't. To you Zoran they have built a trust and thats completely fine and I accept that. And I hope you accept my opinion that Ford is my favorite (I think you do).
As for the water pump. Zoran, thats because you bought a dodge:P I can even joke about my fathers experience with them. I remember we went to test drive 2000 Intrepid and there was a spring poking almost out of the back seat.
My dad and I still joke about that. We bought the Mercury instead
6/26/05, 04:22 PM
#33
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I'll agree the JD Power associates poll is a bit misleading, but it's the only real indicator to base off of. (Don't get me started on Consumer Reports). In Fact, JD Powers, Associates counts EVERYTHING. For instance, if you bought the car and discovered a scratch -- fixing the scratch would count.
I had a 92 Eclipse that I bought brand new, and the engine literally froze two weeks after buying it! I'm sure that counted as one issue. *shrug* Needless to say, I didn't keep it long after I bought it -- and have never wanted to buy another Mitsu again, simply because I don't know many people with positive experiences.
We also had a 97 4Runner that has numerous issues. Bad compressor bad alternator, bad light switch for front fogs etc. To be fair, I also had 98 Mustang that had a bad guage sensor. Showed 1/2 a tank, when in fact I had no gas. Wasn't nice in the middle of summer, in the middle of nowhere, in Texas when our daughter was an infant (read it was HOT) and it left us stranded on the side of the road.
The 4Runner never left us stranded anywhere but home!
I still think Toyota makes good cars, and would consider one if it met my needs. I probably just had a lemon.
But, Chrysler/Dodge is probably one we can all agree to agree on. I've known so many people with Chryslers that have had issues, I'd never consider buying one at this point. Parents-in-law have a RAM 1500 they've had numerous issues with. My sister had the big RAM (whichever that was) and it jumped out of gear numerous times while the foot was on the brake surging forward. Very scarey.
I had a 92 Eclipse that I bought brand new, and the engine literally froze two weeks after buying it! I'm sure that counted as one issue. *shrug* Needless to say, I didn't keep it long after I bought it -- and have never wanted to buy another Mitsu again, simply because I don't know many people with positive experiences.
We also had a 97 4Runner that has numerous issues. Bad compressor bad alternator, bad light switch for front fogs etc. To be fair, I also had 98 Mustang that had a bad guage sensor. Showed 1/2 a tank, when in fact I had no gas. Wasn't nice in the middle of summer, in the middle of nowhere, in Texas when our daughter was an infant (read it was HOT) and it left us stranded on the side of the road.
The 4Runner never left us stranded anywhere but home!
I still think Toyota makes good cars, and would consider one if it met my needs. I probably just had a lemon. But, Chrysler/Dodge is probably one we can all agree to agree on. I've known so many people with Chryslers that have had issues, I'd never consider buying one at this point. Parents-in-law have a RAM 1500 they've had numerous issues with. My sister had the big RAM (whichever that was) and it jumped out of gear numerous times while the foot was on the brake surging forward. Very scarey.
6/26/05, 04:26 PM
#34
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Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@June 26, 2005, 4:02 PM
But the reason I like them so much is that they have built a trust with me, while on the other hand Toyota hasn't. To you Zoran they have built a trust and thats completely fine and I accept that. And I hope you accept my opinion that Ford is my favorite (I think you do).
But the reason I like them so much is that they have built a trust with me, while on the other hand Toyota hasn't. To you Zoran they have built a trust and thats completely fine and I accept that. And I hope you accept my opinion that Ford is my favorite (I think you do).
6/26/05, 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by JeffreyDJ@June 26, 2005, 4:25 PM
I'll agree the JD Power associates poll is a bit misleading, but it's the only real indicator to base off of. (Don't get me started on Consumer Reports). In Fact, JD Powers, Associates counts EVERYTHING. For instance, if you bought the car and discovered a scratch -- fixing the scratch would count.
I had a 92 Eclipse that I bought brand new, and the engine literally froze two weeks after buying it! I'm sure that counted as one issue. *shrug* Needless to say, I didn't keep it long after I bought it -- and have never wanted to buy another Mitsu again, simply because I don't know many people with positive experiences.
I'll agree the JD Power associates poll is a bit misleading, but it's the only real indicator to base off of. (Don't get me started on Consumer Reports). In Fact, JD Powers, Associates counts EVERYTHING. For instance, if you bought the car and discovered a scratch -- fixing the scratch would count.
I had a 92 Eclipse that I bought brand new, and the engine literally froze two weeks after buying it! I'm sure that counted as one issue. *shrug* Needless to say, I didn't keep it long after I bought it -- and have never wanted to buy another Mitsu again, simply because I don't know many people with positive experiences.
6/27/05, 08:02 AM
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My family has owned 2.
- A 1990 Camry (Had pretty much the same issues Jeff did, alternator went bad, a/c compressor took a poop a year after we bought it, also had to replace the front axle twice in 50k)
- A 1993 Tercel (stranded us 3 times including once on the Tapanzee bridge, in the middle of winter no less, without heat, waiting for a tow truck. Luckily we had blankets for emergencies in the back of the trunk.)
Not to mention my friend owned a 2000 Echo which suffered from not wanting to shift out of second gear. But thats nothing compared to when we lost brake power going to college. 65+ on the highway and we lose almost complete brake power. We had to ride the shoulder and pump what little bit we had left to stop. So after paying to have it towed, the dealership fixed it. They said there was air in the lines from the factory (okay thats a negative on quality control). So they fixed it right. Wrong! It happened again when we were heading up to the Poconos! Luckily this time we were following his parents and were able to go on with the weekend while once again he had to pay to have it towed.
Then theres the issue with my Father in laws Tundra. He bought it to haul his building supplies and stuff (he's a salesman). Well now he has a recall in which his truck will be out of commision for two days. He just bought it! So know he has to work in the office those two days and lose business. Wonderful.
I'm not giving them strike 3 with my family. Two bad cars in my family which had caused us many problems. I care to give my money to Subaru, Ford, or Honda. Toyota never built trust in me or my family and now with the recent issues all of that trust has been exhausted.
I won't risk buying a vehicle which has failed a rollover test or side crash test and put my family in it.
My family has also owned numerous Fords. A 1993 Escort, 1986 Taurus, 1998 Mystique (Mercury), 1997 Taurus, and many others in the past that I don't even remember. I can get a full list if you would like. Besides recalls with the Mystique which were done quickly and efficiently, we never had any issues. That is how I have trust in them. Issues were addressed and fixed.
My father has owned 3 Honda's in the late 80's and mid 90's and now our family owns 3 Subaru's, none of which have ever given us a problem.
Thats my reasoning and thats why I have never bought one myself.
Like Jeff said, JD Power can be misleading, and so can CR. My father just recently inquired to them as to why they recommended the Tacoma, Corolla, and Camry after they failed crash and rollover test. Their response "We didn't have the data at the time so we went ahead. We will be addressing that though." No offense but addressing a safety issue after you have already suggested a car is too little to late in my book. (Don't worry Jeff, I have my issues with CR too!)
These are my opinions on them and reasons as to why I won't buy Toyota. I know more people with negative experiences them positive ones.
On a final note. I know there are people oput ther that have had good experiences with them including you, but from the facts that I have seen from the U.S. Government agencies and the problems I have witnessed first hand I chose not to give them business and that is my opinion and many other people I know. This topic has runs its course for me, I have given my views and thats all I wish to do.
I hope you can except that these are mine and many others opinions as I respect yours. If not... well... thats something that you will have to work out between yourself.
Thank you,
Andy
- A 1990 Camry (Had pretty much the same issues Jeff did, alternator went bad, a/c compressor took a poop a year after we bought it, also had to replace the front axle twice in 50k)
- A 1993 Tercel (stranded us 3 times including once on the Tapanzee bridge, in the middle of winter no less, without heat, waiting for a tow truck. Luckily we had blankets for emergencies in the back of the trunk.)
Not to mention my friend owned a 2000 Echo which suffered from not wanting to shift out of second gear. But thats nothing compared to when we lost brake power going to college. 65+ on the highway and we lose almost complete brake power. We had to ride the shoulder and pump what little bit we had left to stop. So after paying to have it towed, the dealership fixed it. They said there was air in the lines from the factory (okay thats a negative on quality control). So they fixed it right. Wrong! It happened again when we were heading up to the Poconos! Luckily this time we were following his parents and were able to go on with the weekend while once again he had to pay to have it towed.
Then theres the issue with my Father in laws Tundra. He bought it to haul his building supplies and stuff (he's a salesman). Well now he has a recall in which his truck will be out of commision for two days. He just bought it! So know he has to work in the office those two days and lose business. Wonderful.
I'm not giving them strike 3 with my family. Two bad cars in my family which had caused us many problems. I care to give my money to Subaru, Ford, or Honda. Toyota never built trust in me or my family and now with the recent issues all of that trust has been exhausted.
I won't risk buying a vehicle which has failed a rollover test or side crash test and put my family in it.
My family has also owned numerous Fords. A 1993 Escort, 1986 Taurus, 1998 Mystique (Mercury), 1997 Taurus, and many others in the past that I don't even remember. I can get a full list if you would like. Besides recalls with the Mystique which were done quickly and efficiently, we never had any issues. That is how I have trust in them. Issues were addressed and fixed.
My father has owned 3 Honda's in the late 80's and mid 90's and now our family owns 3 Subaru's, none of which have ever given us a problem.
Thats my reasoning and thats why I have never bought one myself.
Like Jeff said, JD Power can be misleading, and so can CR. My father just recently inquired to them as to why they recommended the Tacoma, Corolla, and Camry after they failed crash and rollover test. Their response "We didn't have the data at the time so we went ahead. We will be addressing that though." No offense but addressing a safety issue after you have already suggested a car is too little to late in my book. (Don't worry Jeff, I have my issues with CR too!)
These are my opinions on them and reasons as to why I won't buy Toyota. I know more people with negative experiences them positive ones.
On a final note. I know there are people oput ther that have had good experiences with them including you, but from the facts that I have seen from the U.S. Government agencies and the problems I have witnessed first hand I chose not to give them business and that is my opinion and many other people I know. This topic has runs its course for me, I have given my views and thats all I wish to do.
I hope you can except that these are mine and many others opinions as I respect yours. If not... well... thats something that you will have to work out between yourself.
Thank you,
Andy
6/27/05, 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@June 27, 2005, 8:05 AM
I'm not giving them strike 3 with my family. Two bad cars in my family which had caused us many problems. I care to give my money to Subaru, Ford, or Honda. Toyota never built trust in me or my family and now with the recent issues all of that trust has been exhausted.
I'm not giving them strike 3 with my family. Two bad cars in my family which had caused us many problems. I care to give my money to Subaru, Ford, or Honda. Toyota never built trust in me or my family and now with the recent issues all of that trust has been exhausted.
If I could give Ford another chance after big disappointments like Escort and Taurus and even Mustang (CD player died last night by the way), then you should give another chance to Toyota.
I respect your opinion even though I think its wrong. But I'm not here to judge anyone, you do whatever you think its the best for you and your family.
Zoran
6/27/05, 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by Red Star@June 27, 2005, 10:29 AM
You should give them another chance, but this time go with something better like Avalon or newer Camry, not Tercel or Echo. I'm sure you won't be sorry. Just buy Camry with V6 as your 3rd car like I did. You will fell in love with it and you will never say again that its a bad car.
If I could give Ford another chance after big disappointments like Escort and Taurus and even Mustang (CD player died last night by the way), then you should give another chance to Toyota.
I respect your opinion even though I think its wrong. But I'm not here to judge anyone, you do whatever you think its the best for you and your family.
Zoran
You should give them another chance, but this time go with something better like Avalon or newer Camry, not Tercel or Echo. I'm sure you won't be sorry. Just buy Camry with V6 as your 3rd car like I did. You will fell in love with it and you will never say again that its a bad car.
If I could give Ford another chance after big disappointments like Escort and Taurus and even Mustang (CD player died last night by the way), then you should give another chance to Toyota.
I respect your opinion even though I think its wrong. But I'm not here to judge anyone, you do whatever you think its the best for you and your family.
Zoran
I just have had a really sour experience and it will take me a long time to get that bad taste out of my mouth. Just like you feel towards my opinion, I feel that yours is incorrect, but as long as respect is shown between two people its all good. Right now all of my money is going towards a house anyway (and a supercharger) anyways. Then my wife would like a newer Mustang down the road too. Lots of plans and so little time.
I am glad to hear you are buying another Ford.
