'07 Camaro?
8/10/04, 03:04 PM
#1
V6 Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: June 20, 2004
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did a web search and found this: (looks like we have some competition :angry: ) I didn't read the whole article so forgive and irrelivent data. I'll have pics later.
Work on a new 5th generation Camaro, though GM will tell you different, began about two years ago in almost a skunkworks fashion. It was a difficult task for GM to perform in secret especially during the acrimonious final year of the fourth generation Camaro. GM constantly referring to the Camaro being on “Hiatus” is a sure sign that they were not fully giving up on the Camaro. Initial work was largely marketing studies, seeing what potential Camaro buyer must have, would like to have, and defiantly don’t want. This kind of research is done before engineering and design on a new car program. Camaro is the 3rd most recognized name in GM’s portfolio, and it has understandably become notion at GM that it had to come back. The current team working on the new Camaro is pushing to build a car that will be appealing not only when it’s released, but 5-7 years later (as far out as 2015!). That means for the most part that retro is out, which is good for Bob Lutz, who dislikes such design to begin with. GM does not want another T-bird or new Beetle, as their sales do not hold up well over time. Initially in the development process, Cadillac’s Sigma platform was considered the leading architecture for which to base the new Camaro. Several issues however came up with this choice, the first one of which being the cost of the Cadillac platform which was not designed with Chevrolet prices in mind. Secondly, the Sigma platform has a very high cowl (commonly called firewall) height that was made as a concession for the Cadillac SRX Crossover. This however is not ideal for a low slung sports coupe and would be very expensive to impossible to correct. This realization occurred at about the same point GM discovered Holden. In importing the GTO, GM realized that Holden had expertise and efficiency in designing affordable rear wheel drive cars that they could only wish to have. When they signed a 3-year agreement with Holden to build the GTO, they also had an eye on the future, and an American made GTO. It seems Holden was already developing a successor to the V-chassis that the Monaro, GTO, and Commodore are all built on dubbed VE. The VE chassis (as Holden calls it) is sort of a hybrid Sigma/V-car design with most of the Sigma’s structure mated to V-Car suspension elements. This new design is being engineered to be fully compliant with US laws and will be built in one or two US factories beginning 2005-2006. It is Holden’s manufacturing system which allows for several cars to be built in one factory that is the cornerstone to GM’s plans. Currently they build 20 variants of the V-car in one factory down under. This setup GM hopes in the US will allow for a Buick to build say a $45,000 Lexus fighting sedan on the same line a $20,000 V6 Chevy Camaro. The US version of the VE chassis is currently being called Sigma-Lite or Sigma-Mass among those in the know, however GM has yet to give it an official name. The chassis debuted just this week as the Opel Insignia concept, proving how far it is along in development. The VE will also underpin the next GTO which will be made in the US in 2007. This new VE-based GTO is said to be lower, wider, and more aggressive than the current V-car based version according to those who have seen it. Expect the new GTO to be more identifiable as a GTO, while being a fully modern (non-retro) design. I believe the Insignia concept shows the low slung rounded look that will be the signature of this platform.
Now what does all this mean for the Camaro? Well since it was decided that the GTO would be redesigned and built stateside, Chevy has been in the game developing a coupe for themselves as a counterpart. Common notion was that this car would be a Chevelle, since it has historically been the GTO’s platform sibling. This speculation was recently fired by the fact that Chevy recently trademarked the Chevelle name again. In fact, for a few months there were questions in GM concerning what the new Chevy coupe would be called as some wanted it to be a Monte Carlo, some a Chevelle, and the majority wanted a Camaro. GMI has learned that the Chevelle rumors really never had any muscle behind them, especially after GM was roasted alive by GTO enthusiasts over the 2004 car, Chevrolet has become worried about getting the same reception over a reborn Chevelle. Cementing the name of the new Chevrolet coupe was ironically the Mustang concept at the 2004 NAIAS. Upon first site it gave Bob Lutz a case of the “I wants”, and pretty much cemented that any coupe that comes from Chevrolet will be have to first be a Camaro.
Its also noteworthy that we’ve learned that the new Camaro will not be the same size as the GTO, as the highly flexible chassis allows for different proportions among car models. Think of it as a GTO on a diet with some dimensional excesses removed. Our sources assure us that no one will mistake a Camaro for a GTO both in size or appearance. This new 5th Gen Camaro is currently on a timeline for a 2007 model year introduction, provided that no unexpected obstacles fall in it’s path. GM’s maze of new model concept approvals is staggering, and the new car does not have the final stamp quite yet. However it should be noted that at this point neither does the 2007 GTO, and that this is normal in the approval process for vehicles this far out. This final approval by GM’s Product Planning Board does not occur until the car is within about two years of going into production. In short, if the 2007 GTO becomes reality (which we all know will happen), then a 2007 Camaro almost certainly will to.
GM was quite proud of the fact that the Camaro was the fastest pony car during it’s final years and is willing to grow to great lengths to ensure it picks up where it left off. GM can match the Ford Mustang step for step horsepower wise with it’s superior powertrain unit. GM’s engines are cheaper and make more HP/Dollar than their respective Ford units despite the false generally held notion they are low tech. Power will likely come in three flavors, base V6, medium V8, and high end V8. The base V6 will likely be a high-value 3.5L (200HP) or 3.9L (230HP) engine. Expect GM to match the Mustang in V6 performance, but not exceed it. It is important that GM save costs on the V6 Camaro as it will likely be among the cheapest cars built on the whole Sigma-Lite platform. Though V6 buyers care about performance, cost and value seem to take more precedence in this segment. As much as people would like a 3.6L 255 HP high feature V6, it’s not likely due to its much increased cost. They do however, plan to offer a bolt on version of the supercharger used on the 285HP 3.5L that will show up in the 2005 Pontiac G6 to the general public through dealers. Contrary to some rumors, a 4-cylnder is not in the plans as it does not fit the image Chevrolet wants for the new Camaro. For a mid-level V8 expect either a 320 HP 5.3L or a 340HP detuned version of the Corvette’s 6.0L LS2 base engine.The 5.3L is the less likely of the above mentioned engines to get the nod because we are unaware of any plans to certify it for car use, a road the 6.0L is well down. For all intents the 5.7L is dead as the new Corvette will use a 6.0L engine in it’s place. This mid-model is likely to car the Z28 designation which will upset some Z28 enthusiasts, but follows the line with the Camaro’s recent history The top level V8 likely to again be called SS will also most likely be the 6.0L LS2 directly from the base Corvette. This engine making probably 10-20 HP less than in Corvette trim will make in the area of 390HP. The decision to use the SS designation follows GM recent trend of using the designation of the top performing car for each model. The car will also probably have some kind of affiliation with GM Performance Division. It is well known that Holden is designing it’s new VE cars to use 6 speed automatic transmissions, making them an obvious choice for the SS 5th Gen Camaro. The 6-speed automatic is actually simpler and cheaper to manufacture than a 5 speed design. There are rumors that team Corvette badly wants a paddle-shift setup to come from this design, but is exploring all options. This new transmission will be made at GM’s Willow Run plant that currently makes the 4L80-E and 4T80E transmissions. Four or Five Speed Autos will be used in lesser models. There will also be a 6-speed manual offered for those who wish to shift on their own.
On the outside the new Camaro will be lower and more seductive than the current GTO. It will also feature styling elements from the SS Concept of this year. People familiar with the new car claim it has a chrome bar concurrent of newer Chevrolets, however that element is very much in limbo. Naturally, the interior will be fully modern keeping in line with the GM’s recent achievements. Interiors have been a hot topic on the auto scene the last few years, and GM understands that the Camaro needs to hit a homerun to succeed. Ergonomics will be inherently better that the 4th Gen cars simply due to the better design of the new chassis. Basic features debuting on cars such as the 2004 Malibu are sure to be considered for the new car, such as remote start, Displacement on Demand, and XM and MP3 Capable radios. It is actually cost effective for GM to include such features in the new car because they were already included in the overall architecture design which will be the structure for more expensive cars. The new car will also include ABS and a revised traction control system that will make the Camaro an all weather car. In reality anything is possible, because Sigma –Lite will be so widely used, pretty much all of GM’s parts bin of options will be engineered to work with it, making the cost to include them in a Camaro negligible, What all of this means is that the Camaro will receive levels of options and refinements that was never imaginable, because it rides on a platform designed to for cars that cost much more. Things such as roll up windows and manual locks will not even be considered because it is cheaper to just include the power options than do the engineering to include manual options. Higher end versions may include features such as On-Star that are highly profitable and compact enough to not hurt performance. If GM thinks that people will pay for it, GM will likely include it. This is great for buyers of the top level Camaro will get much more for their money than they did with the 4th Generation. Speaking of price, expect GM to price the Camaro similar to the 4th Generation Camaro, slightly more than a Mustang of comparable price.
If Ford decided to chase the Corvette with a 500HP Cobra, don’t expect a Camaro to chase it. GM feels that the Corvette will do a good enough job of disposing with the challenge. The price spread could likely run from about $20,000 to $37,000+ (In 2007 dollars) for a 400 HP fully-loaded Camaro. Considering in 2002 a base V6 Camaro started at $19,000, this is not much of a price increase. GM thinks it can sell a 110,000 units a year at this pricing through tapping such markets as past buyers, well off twenty and thirty something males, buyers put off by the retro Mustang, and in general anyone looking for amazing performance at a Chevrolet price. GM has committed itself to making the Camaro not only faster and better than the Mustang, but quite possibly on of the best performers in it’s price range.
Though this article is a representation of the current state of the new Camaro to the best of our knowledge, please remember the car is three years from hitting showrroms and some details may change. When the wraps come off the 2007 Camaro it will bring an end to what has been a classic struggle within GM to keep one of it’s classic nameplates viable in an ever changing market. Though there have been many people pushing for this new car within GM at various levels for the last 7 years, few on the outside will ever understand the hard work and struggle that went into bringing a new car to light. However, Rest assured however, the new car is one that will be worthy of the Camaro name, and more importantly, one that people will buy!
Work on a new 5th generation Camaro, though GM will tell you different, began about two years ago in almost a skunkworks fashion. It was a difficult task for GM to perform in secret especially during the acrimonious final year of the fourth generation Camaro. GM constantly referring to the Camaro being on “Hiatus” is a sure sign that they were not fully giving up on the Camaro. Initial work was largely marketing studies, seeing what potential Camaro buyer must have, would like to have, and defiantly don’t want. This kind of research is done before engineering and design on a new car program. Camaro is the 3rd most recognized name in GM’s portfolio, and it has understandably become notion at GM that it had to come back. The current team working on the new Camaro is pushing to build a car that will be appealing not only when it’s released, but 5-7 years later (as far out as 2015!). That means for the most part that retro is out, which is good for Bob Lutz, who dislikes such design to begin with. GM does not want another T-bird or new Beetle, as their sales do not hold up well over time. Initially in the development process, Cadillac’s Sigma platform was considered the leading architecture for which to base the new Camaro. Several issues however came up with this choice, the first one of which being the cost of the Cadillac platform which was not designed with Chevrolet prices in mind. Secondly, the Sigma platform has a very high cowl (commonly called firewall) height that was made as a concession for the Cadillac SRX Crossover. This however is not ideal for a low slung sports coupe and would be very expensive to impossible to correct. This realization occurred at about the same point GM discovered Holden. In importing the GTO, GM realized that Holden had expertise and efficiency in designing affordable rear wheel drive cars that they could only wish to have. When they signed a 3-year agreement with Holden to build the GTO, they also had an eye on the future, and an American made GTO. It seems Holden was already developing a successor to the V-chassis that the Monaro, GTO, and Commodore are all built on dubbed VE. The VE chassis (as Holden calls it) is sort of a hybrid Sigma/V-car design with most of the Sigma’s structure mated to V-Car suspension elements. This new design is being engineered to be fully compliant with US laws and will be built in one or two US factories beginning 2005-2006. It is Holden’s manufacturing system which allows for several cars to be built in one factory that is the cornerstone to GM’s plans. Currently they build 20 variants of the V-car in one factory down under. This setup GM hopes in the US will allow for a Buick to build say a $45,000 Lexus fighting sedan on the same line a $20,000 V6 Chevy Camaro. The US version of the VE chassis is currently being called Sigma-Lite or Sigma-Mass among those in the know, however GM has yet to give it an official name. The chassis debuted just this week as the Opel Insignia concept, proving how far it is along in development. The VE will also underpin the next GTO which will be made in the US in 2007. This new VE-based GTO is said to be lower, wider, and more aggressive than the current V-car based version according to those who have seen it. Expect the new GTO to be more identifiable as a GTO, while being a fully modern (non-retro) design. I believe the Insignia concept shows the low slung rounded look that will be the signature of this platform.
Now what does all this mean for the Camaro? Well since it was decided that the GTO would be redesigned and built stateside, Chevy has been in the game developing a coupe for themselves as a counterpart. Common notion was that this car would be a Chevelle, since it has historically been the GTO’s platform sibling. This speculation was recently fired by the fact that Chevy recently trademarked the Chevelle name again. In fact, for a few months there were questions in GM concerning what the new Chevy coupe would be called as some wanted it to be a Monte Carlo, some a Chevelle, and the majority wanted a Camaro. GMI has learned that the Chevelle rumors really never had any muscle behind them, especially after GM was roasted alive by GTO enthusiasts over the 2004 car, Chevrolet has become worried about getting the same reception over a reborn Chevelle. Cementing the name of the new Chevrolet coupe was ironically the Mustang concept at the 2004 NAIAS. Upon first site it gave Bob Lutz a case of the “I wants”, and pretty much cemented that any coupe that comes from Chevrolet will be have to first be a Camaro.
Its also noteworthy that we’ve learned that the new Camaro will not be the same size as the GTO, as the highly flexible chassis allows for different proportions among car models. Think of it as a GTO on a diet with some dimensional excesses removed. Our sources assure us that no one will mistake a Camaro for a GTO both in size or appearance. This new 5th Gen Camaro is currently on a timeline for a 2007 model year introduction, provided that no unexpected obstacles fall in it’s path. GM’s maze of new model concept approvals is staggering, and the new car does not have the final stamp quite yet. However it should be noted that at this point neither does the 2007 GTO, and that this is normal in the approval process for vehicles this far out. This final approval by GM’s Product Planning Board does not occur until the car is within about two years of going into production. In short, if the 2007 GTO becomes reality (which we all know will happen), then a 2007 Camaro almost certainly will to.
GM was quite proud of the fact that the Camaro was the fastest pony car during it’s final years and is willing to grow to great lengths to ensure it picks up where it left off. GM can match the Ford Mustang step for step horsepower wise with it’s superior powertrain unit. GM’s engines are cheaper and make more HP/Dollar than their respective Ford units despite the false generally held notion they are low tech. Power will likely come in three flavors, base V6, medium V8, and high end V8. The base V6 will likely be a high-value 3.5L (200HP) or 3.9L (230HP) engine. Expect GM to match the Mustang in V6 performance, but not exceed it. It is important that GM save costs on the V6 Camaro as it will likely be among the cheapest cars built on the whole Sigma-Lite platform. Though V6 buyers care about performance, cost and value seem to take more precedence in this segment. As much as people would like a 3.6L 255 HP high feature V6, it’s not likely due to its much increased cost. They do however, plan to offer a bolt on version of the supercharger used on the 285HP 3.5L that will show up in the 2005 Pontiac G6 to the general public through dealers. Contrary to some rumors, a 4-cylnder is not in the plans as it does not fit the image Chevrolet wants for the new Camaro. For a mid-level V8 expect either a 320 HP 5.3L or a 340HP detuned version of the Corvette’s 6.0L LS2 base engine.The 5.3L is the less likely of the above mentioned engines to get the nod because we are unaware of any plans to certify it for car use, a road the 6.0L is well down. For all intents the 5.7L is dead as the new Corvette will use a 6.0L engine in it’s place. This mid-model is likely to car the Z28 designation which will upset some Z28 enthusiasts, but follows the line with the Camaro’s recent history The top level V8 likely to again be called SS will also most likely be the 6.0L LS2 directly from the base Corvette. This engine making probably 10-20 HP less than in Corvette trim will make in the area of 390HP. The decision to use the SS designation follows GM recent trend of using the designation of the top performing car for each model. The car will also probably have some kind of affiliation with GM Performance Division. It is well known that Holden is designing it’s new VE cars to use 6 speed automatic transmissions, making them an obvious choice for the SS 5th Gen Camaro. The 6-speed automatic is actually simpler and cheaper to manufacture than a 5 speed design. There are rumors that team Corvette badly wants a paddle-shift setup to come from this design, but is exploring all options. This new transmission will be made at GM’s Willow Run plant that currently makes the 4L80-E and 4T80E transmissions. Four or Five Speed Autos will be used in lesser models. There will also be a 6-speed manual offered for those who wish to shift on their own.
On the outside the new Camaro will be lower and more seductive than the current GTO. It will also feature styling elements from the SS Concept of this year. People familiar with the new car claim it has a chrome bar concurrent of newer Chevrolets, however that element is very much in limbo. Naturally, the interior will be fully modern keeping in line with the GM’s recent achievements. Interiors have been a hot topic on the auto scene the last few years, and GM understands that the Camaro needs to hit a homerun to succeed. Ergonomics will be inherently better that the 4th Gen cars simply due to the better design of the new chassis. Basic features debuting on cars such as the 2004 Malibu are sure to be considered for the new car, such as remote start, Displacement on Demand, and XM and MP3 Capable radios. It is actually cost effective for GM to include such features in the new car because they were already included in the overall architecture design which will be the structure for more expensive cars. The new car will also include ABS and a revised traction control system that will make the Camaro an all weather car. In reality anything is possible, because Sigma –Lite will be so widely used, pretty much all of GM’s parts bin of options will be engineered to work with it, making the cost to include them in a Camaro negligible, What all of this means is that the Camaro will receive levels of options and refinements that was never imaginable, because it rides on a platform designed to for cars that cost much more. Things such as roll up windows and manual locks will not even be considered because it is cheaper to just include the power options than do the engineering to include manual options. Higher end versions may include features such as On-Star that are highly profitable and compact enough to not hurt performance. If GM thinks that people will pay for it, GM will likely include it. This is great for buyers of the top level Camaro will get much more for their money than they did with the 4th Generation. Speaking of price, expect GM to price the Camaro similar to the 4th Generation Camaro, slightly more than a Mustang of comparable price.
If Ford decided to chase the Corvette with a 500HP Cobra, don’t expect a Camaro to chase it. GM feels that the Corvette will do a good enough job of disposing with the challenge. The price spread could likely run from about $20,000 to $37,000+ (In 2007 dollars) for a 400 HP fully-loaded Camaro. Considering in 2002 a base V6 Camaro started at $19,000, this is not much of a price increase. GM thinks it can sell a 110,000 units a year at this pricing through tapping such markets as past buyers, well off twenty and thirty something males, buyers put off by the retro Mustang, and in general anyone looking for amazing performance at a Chevrolet price. GM has committed itself to making the Camaro not only faster and better than the Mustang, but quite possibly on of the best performers in it’s price range.
Though this article is a representation of the current state of the new Camaro to the best of our knowledge, please remember the car is three years from hitting showrroms and some details may change. When the wraps come off the 2007 Camaro it will bring an end to what has been a classic struggle within GM to keep one of it’s classic nameplates viable in an ever changing market. Though there have been many people pushing for this new car within GM at various levels for the last 7 years, few on the outside will ever understand the hard work and struggle that went into bringing a new car to light. However, Rest assured however, the new car is one that will be worthy of the Camaro name, and more importantly, one that people will buy!
8/10/04, 03:52 PM
#4
Bullitt Member
Join Date: June 28, 2004
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm glad that the Ford Mustang has inspired GM to do something and not let the Camaro name die out. I think both of these names are part of American history and I think they both belong out there on the roads of America. Of course there will be enthusiasts on both sides saying my camaro is better/faster/etc than your mustang and the other guy/gal saying my Mustang is better/faster/etc than your camaro. I think this is great and this will have many teenagers/adults having similar conversations once the camaro comes back into production.
Our enthusiasm for our cars started a long time ago. American Grafitti is a good example of this, and having the Camaro back will push both sides to greater lengths of making a better car or if not just the good ole smack talking about who's car is better!!!
Our enthusiasm for our cars started a long time ago. American Grafitti is a good example of this, and having the Camaro back will push both sides to greater lengths of making a better car or if not just the good ole smack talking about who's car is better!!!
8/10/04, 03:54 PM
#5
Member
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i read this about 4 to 5 months ago. Soemthing tells me this is just to keep interest going on camaro, from GM's part. Thier really waiting on how well mustang will do.
A successful mustang creates a camaro return.
A successful mustang creates a camaro return.
8/10/04, 04:04 PM
#7
Bullitt Member
Join Date: May 25, 2004
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by 2001GTMILT@August 10, 2004, 3:57 PM
i read this about 4 to 5 months ago. Soemthing tells me this is just to keep interest going on camaro, from GM's part. Thier really waiting on how well mustang will do.
A successful mustang creates a camaro return.
i read this about 4 to 5 months ago. Soemthing tells me this is just to keep interest going on camaro, from GM's part. Thier really waiting on how well mustang will do.
A successful mustang creates a camaro return.
An 07 Camaro should be fun. Something to eat for the next gen cobra (assuming the 450hp rumors come to fruition)
8/10/04, 04:58 PM
#12
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: July 26, 2004
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMO, GM/Chevy failed to keep the Camaro and Firebird interesting for many many reasons which could be talked about and debated for years and years. If GM wants a sucessful Camaro and/or a Firebird, return to the glory of the original late 60's Camaro's & Firebirds
Where the Camaro turned potential buyers away was with the 1970 1/2 model. It was lower to the ground than previous car, had longer doors, a longer hood, less trunk space, and less overall height. This made the car LESS practical for everyday driving, and everyday drivers. If GM buyers wanted a low to the ground car with long hoods and small trunks, they bought a CORVETTE, but more turned to the Mustang and it better fitted a young American Family. From the 1970's the Camaro and Firebird only became less appealing and practical, though the name and memories continued which helped it sell. These memories died in the 1990's, as the single Mustang out sold the Camaro & Firebird combined almost 2 to 1.
Why GM felt they needed basically a Corvette that had 4 seats is beyond me, which is where I felt the Camaro and Firebird were slotted, a poor mans Corvette in a sense, but not really. The Camaro wanted to be a Mustang and a Corvette in one. This ultimately killed its sales so bad in the mid to late 1990's, that GM had to kill it off in the early 2000's.
Maybe it was time for a break for the Camaro and Firebird at GM. They lost touch and needed to regroup their minds, resources, and inginuity.
If GM does pull off a Camaro and/or Firebird return, then it needs to go the opposite direction of the last 20 years is shape. Make the car user friendly with easy entry, more rear seat space, and a powerful V8 engine, but with a modern OHC, not the old pushrod V8 used in the Vette. Ford made the transition to OHC engines throughout their lines, GM can too.
In the end, Ford realized to keep the Mustang intesting after the 70's where they shortly fell to the Mustang II, they needed to make a practical sports car they a family could and would get in and take a drive in. It needed to have a modern engine that made HP, but kept many things in balance.
Where the Camaro turned potential buyers away was with the 1970 1/2 model. It was lower to the ground than previous car, had longer doors, a longer hood, less trunk space, and less overall height. This made the car LESS practical for everyday driving, and everyday drivers. If GM buyers wanted a low to the ground car with long hoods and small trunks, they bought a CORVETTE, but more turned to the Mustang and it better fitted a young American Family. From the 1970's the Camaro and Firebird only became less appealing and practical, though the name and memories continued which helped it sell. These memories died in the 1990's, as the single Mustang out sold the Camaro & Firebird combined almost 2 to 1.
Why GM felt they needed basically a Corvette that had 4 seats is beyond me, which is where I felt the Camaro and Firebird were slotted, a poor mans Corvette in a sense, but not really. The Camaro wanted to be a Mustang and a Corvette in one. This ultimately killed its sales so bad in the mid to late 1990's, that GM had to kill it off in the early 2000's.
Maybe it was time for a break for the Camaro and Firebird at GM. They lost touch and needed to regroup their minds, resources, and inginuity.
If GM does pull off a Camaro and/or Firebird return, then it needs to go the opposite direction of the last 20 years is shape. Make the car user friendly with easy entry, more rear seat space, and a powerful V8 engine, but with a modern OHC, not the old pushrod V8 used in the Vette. Ford made the transition to OHC engines throughout their lines, GM can too.
In the end, Ford realized to keep the Mustang intesting after the 70's where they shortly fell to the Mustang II, they needed to make a practical sports car they a family could and would get in and take a drive in. It needed to have a modern engine that made HP, but kept many things in balance.
8/10/04, 05:25 PM
#14
Bullitt Member
Join Date: January 29, 2004
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by wrb@August 10, 2004, 10:11 PM
That's just Butt-ugly !
That's just Butt-ugly !
Signs of Chevyities include, but not limited to, not realizing a great product because it wears a bow tie.
Symptoms: Random remarks stating that the new Corvette is ugly, making fun of Camaro owners for worshiping a discontinued car, and having general dissaproval of anything made by GM.
8/10/04, 05:49 PM
#17
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: March 28, 2004
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by CWP@August 10, 2004, 11:37 PM
Any why are you not saying any thing?
Any why are you not saying any thing?
8/10/04, 06:12 PM
#19
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm glad to hear the Camaro is coming back. Don't hate, but I had a 1987 IROC-Z in the late 80's and early 90's. At the time it was a great car, and I preferred it to Mustangs from the 80's. The 90's Camaro is what took me off of Camaro's and over to Mustangs. I have had an '84 Bronco, a '99 Mustang GT, currently have an '02 GT and have an '05 GT on order, so my allegiances have for the most part been with Ford over GM.
But I am looking forward to seeing a new Camaro, especially one that looks modern and retro (like the '05 Mustang). The above article sounds promising for the '07 Camaro. I miss the Mustang/Camaro rivalry. Its always good to have competition.
But I am looking forward to seeing a new Camaro, especially one that looks modern and retro (like the '05 Mustang). The above article sounds promising for the '07 Camaro. I miss the Mustang/Camaro rivalry. Its always good to have competition.
8/10/04, 08:12 PM
#20
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: May 23, 2004
Posts: 688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Never really liked the Camaros..........loved the firebirds though.
However after seeing this photo..that's got a Hemi-Cuda/Chevelle kinda feel......I like it.
Don't mess it up GM. Bring back the Firebird!
However after seeing this photo..that's got a Hemi-Cuda/Chevelle kinda feel......I like it.
Don't mess it up GM. Bring back the Firebird!