I am sorry, but you are mistaken. That is part of my point. The dealership does not make a profit if they sell the car at invoice and give the customer the factory rebates. Profit is defined simply as money made after selling a product and paying all expenses. There is NO money made after paying the bills when a dealer sells a car at invoice.
When I buy something from you I want to pay your cost of that product, cause I don't want you making money on me, and I'll be happy to fight with you about it for as much time as possible, so you lose as much money on me as possible. Think about working all day, and not getting paid. Working for free. I think you should experience it. [/b][/quote]
No I'm sorry you are mistaken if you are regarding this to my posts as well. Where did I mention he was buying at invoice? I was talking about people buying at MSRP.

EDIT: just so we are on the same page here? :scratch:

BTW, I'd love to have the name of any dealership selling this car at invoice or under to someone who doesn't have any special Ford plans worked out. I can't see any dealers throwing away money. :scratch:

 

For people who think that delaer does not make money when selling cars at Invoice are worng IMHO. They make money with holdback, financing, increased sales, increased serivices etc etc. Look at the bigger picture its not easy to sell cars these days.
Right now 05 being a new model will move pretty quickly but a time will come in a few months when these cars will sit on the lots and dealers will make deals on them.
Ford is not gonna offer any factory rebates at this time, but the dealers will still make money by selling at invoice. Its a business, they will try to do their best and I will try to do whats best for me.
Hopefully I can strike a deal with one of the couple dealers I have on my list, if I do I will share the info with all you guys.

 

I can understand and respect that. Most people want to spend as little as possible and I don't blame you. The thing is I just don't see this car going at invoice anytime soon. I mean, we have already heard rumors of 50,000 preorders. With something that hot why the need to discount it? The first year or so a any big name model usually stays at MSRP or maybe a 1-2K rebate.

 

 

No I'm sorry you are mistaken if you are regarding this to my posts as well. Where did I mention he was buying at invoice? I was talking about people buying at MSRP.

EDIT: just so we are on the same page here? :scratch:

BTW, I'd love to have the name of any dealership selling this car at invoice or under to someone who doesn't have any special Ford plans worked out. I can't see any dealers throwing away money. :scratch: [/b][/quote]
Since I quoted Red/Black GT, I believe it was clear that I was responding to his post.

 

Since I quoted Red/Black GT, I believe it was clear that I was responding to his post. [/b][/quote]
Ok, just wanted to make sure. Between this and your comment on certain people's attitudes I got confused.

 

I'm a supervisor at a movie theatre.

..

The point of my post was that my "salesman" didn't know up from down and the first "order" he wrote up was a "locate" order. The car doesn't exist, how can he locate it? Then he wrote the wrong order codes and I had to correct that too. Then I call him for status on my car and I still only get "We'll call you when it gets here. They haven't started making them yet." I don't think this guy has provided much, if any, service to me at all.

Come to my movie theatre. If I don't start the movie you want to watch, and don't give you the popcorn you paid for, I wouldn't expect any profit from it. (I'm paid hourly, but its the concept.)

 

Pay 500 over invoice or 500 under MSRP you cheapo. Salesman try to make a living. Do you know what commission is? Do you know what a draw is? If you are going to go buy a 25 thousand dollar car, the least you can do is let the salesmen make a little bit of money, assuming he deserves it. Find a good salesperson who knows something about the product and is nice, then pay him. Who cares about holdback, that is the dealers money. I know you want to get the best deal you can, but if you can't be nice and spend a few hundred dollars more, frankly, you are not the person I want to wave to when I see a mustang pull up next to mine.



Geeze, where are manners these days?

 

WOW look whos talking about manners??? :scratch:

 

Yay this ought to be fun. Maybe I'll hold back a little at first ... R/B GT, first, you do realize that BEK is a salesman, correct?

Make money on holdback? Are you kidding? Financing? No. The dealership gets paid cash up front either way, they don't care if you finance or pay them cash for the car. Even if you go through Ford Motor Credit, you are dealing with FMC, and the dealership gets paid cash for the amount you agreed to. The interest goes to whoever you financed with. Increased sales and services ... can you explain to me how they make money off increased sales and services on a single car? Over a group of cars, yes, but we are talking your single car and your single experience. And they wouldn't make money if they were selling to everyone at invoice or below.

Don't bother replying, you won't like me when I'm angry.

 

ummm, whatever. There is a difference. I am telling you why you are wrong, you are ripping off a salesman of a legitimate sale. Maybe you should actually think of the salesman or the consequences of the actions you are taking. You can say I have bad manners, but you have bad manners, business practicies, and no common courtesy. I did not afford you courtesy because you are trying to rip off a salesperson. If you were just not aware of how much you should pay and just asking nicely, then I would give you some manners. But up to now, you don't deserve it.



Have a nice day.

 

Whatever you guys. My best friend is a salesman for the dark side, for 15 years. I try to get the lowdown all the time on who makes what and what the real price of the car is. You know what, all I get is double talk, and it changes from week to week. I don't think anybody on the sales end knows exactly what the story is on who makes what. The farther down the totem pole you are at the dealership the less you are going to know. Do you think the guy that owns the dealership wants his salesmen to know what he makes? Work with me here. Quit worring about $500 on a $27000 buy, find a salesman who is knowlegeable, and work with him. If he knows less than you than you know about the car, and you are telling him what the color of the foam under the seat cover is, you are a fanatic, and you should be slapped for being mad he dosen't understand.

Take prozac.

 

I disagree. The dealership does make money on the financing and so does your salesperson. The banks sell the money to the dealer for a certain percentage rate(called retention rate). The dealer is then free to mark up this rate and resell it to you. The banks pay back the dealer that extra intersest that is generated (called reserve). The dealer also profits from sale of warranties, rustproofing, alarms,etc.. and salespeople get paid on these as well.

With holdback as well as the blue oval certified dealer money, there is over 4% to be made on an invoice deal. That ends up being about $1,000 on a GT, not to mention the finance and extras income.

Volume and service is where the profits come from, not an extra $500 or $1,000 on the 2 Mustangs that will get sold in the first month.

As a sales person, if I worked at a dealer that didn't pay me fairly, I'd find one that did.

 

Dealerships make money. It's how they stay open. They sell a product at a set price which (usually and unfortunately) they can haggle around with. It's your job to either pay full price (sticker) or less if you have the guts to duke it out.

I agree with the salespeople even though most are of the scummy nature (most, not those on this site). With the new Stang, just open your wallet and let a delightful stream of cash pour out. The Nissan Z is STILL a hot car with low rebate availabilty. At least let Ford dealers enjoy the new Mustang for 5-6 months and THEN start making less money on them versus SUVs.

 

OMG, lol -- can someone delete two of the three identicals AND this post here? Sorry, cable modem froze and then kicked in with major prejudice.


EDIT: extra posts deleted, no worries

 

BS!

The salesman is not doing anything but taking an order. All of the people here have already decided to buy a 2005 Mustang and know more about the 05 Stang than the salesman knows.

The salesman is NOT adding ANY value and deserves squat for a commission!

If the salesman convinces you to buy a Stang over another car then he deseves his comission, but that's not the case as most people here are already sold on the '05 Stang.

Guys ( & Gals) do yourselves a favor. Bypass the know nothing salespeople and go direct to the internet or fleet sales managers and place your orders at invoice!

 

One of the things I have learned from reading this forum and the 20 years I have been in the car business, is that the car business is very complicated and that many people have misconceptions about it. It is both interesting and frustrating. It is extremely competitive and difficult for both retailers and consumers.
To be clear, there are many well run dealerships that make a good profit and are able to support it's owners, employees, and communities. However, because there are to many dealers of some makes, and it has become some sort of social pride and requirement to pay as little for a car as possible, there are many dealers that just barely get by. I do believe in the economics of capitalism and that bad businesses should fail, but many hard working, good dealers and their employees are being unfairly punished by the auto buying phenomenon.
What other product do we buy where we know the supposed cost and try so hard to purchase for that cost? What other business is told how much money they can and can't make? What if everyone came into your business and demanded to see your invoice and then demanded you sell your product for that invoice price, or less? What if I went to the movies, had the employees there wait on me hand and foot, had the manager personally bring me popcorn and sodas, watched part of the movie to see if I liked it, and then refused to pay because I could get the same movie at Blockbuster for less? I think we should only pay $1 to see the movie. How much does the movie roll cost when you get it from the distributor. I only want to pay my portion of that. Not anything toward your rent, employee costs, taxes, insurance, utilities, etc. etc.
As I have said before, if many people continue to insist on trying to pay invoice or close to it, many dealers will close and the once that remain will only be able to afford to employ low wage workers who will not be knowledgeable or helpful during the car buying experience, or after when you need service.
Like many have said, I hope all will find a good dealer and salesperson, pay a fair price, and enjoy car buying for years to come.

 

BS!

The salesman is not doing anything but taking an order. All of the people here have already decided to buy a 2005 Mustang and know more about the 05 Stang than the salesman knows.

The salesman is NOT adding ANY value and deserves squat for a commission!

If the salesman convinces you to buy a Stang over another car then he deseves his comission, but that's not the case as most people here are already sold on the '05 Stang.

Guys ( & Gals) do yourselves a favor. Bypass the know nothing salespeople and go direct to the internet or fleet sales managers and place your orders at invoice! [/b][/quote]
V10, maybe in your experience. But in mine, my salesman is sending me emails weekly among many other things, and I'm on D-Plan, so he is barely making anything.

 

BS!

The salesman is not doing anything but taking an order. All of the people here have already decided to buy a 2005 Mustang and know more about the 05 Stang than the salesman knows.

The salesman is NOT adding ANY value and deserves squat for a commission!

If the salesman convinces you to buy a Stang over another car then he deseves his comission, but that's not the case as most people here are already sold on the '05 Stang.

Guys ( & Gals) do yourselves a favor. Bypass the know nothing salespeople and go direct to the internet or fleet sales managers and place your orders at invoice! [/b][/quote]
If you encounter a bad salesman who offers no help or value, then I agree with you. Find another one. But even if you already know you want the car, you still want someone to guide you through the process. If you want someone to explain the features, handle the paperwork, make sure you actually get you car B) , answer all your questions, make sure it is prepped and clean when you want to pick it up, process your trade in, make sure any minor blemishes are repaired, , explain the warranty and maintenance, etc, etc,,,, then you need a salesperson and you need to pay for him. If you want no service then fine, call the Fleet mgr and he will probably ignore you because he is busy handling big business transactions of 20+ vehicles at a time and can't afford to mess around with your measly invoice Mustang.
Your statement is exactly what I am referring to in my previous post. Keep it up and the process of buying the second biggest purchase in your life will be like going to Sears and trying to get someone to help you. You'll be on your own.

 

I've purchased and leased many cars. Let's look at your points:

1. The salesman has NEVER handled the paperwork. There has always been some sort of "business manager" or "finance person" who did the paperwork and explained all the terms and conditions.

2. I have NEVER needed anyone to explain the car's features to me. Whenever I've bought a car I've ususally known more about the car than the sales person and ended up explaining things to them about the car that they didn't know.

3. I would just assume prep and clean my own car rather than trust it to some low wage transient worker who just started working at the dealer 2 days ago who could give a crap whether they scratched my paint.

4. I'm the one who seems to find the minor blemishes and has to fight with the dealer to get them fixed. It seems the dealer always has a hissy fit when you insist that these things be fixed before delivery. They always want you to take delivery and then try to get things fixed afterwards.

5. I am well aware of warranty and maintanance. If there is something new I can find it in the manual. One of the biggest wastes of my time has been going through the delivery checklist with the salesman. It usually degenerates into a session where they try to put the fear of God into you that if you don't get your oil changed at the dealer you will wind up going to heck when you die and your car will fall apart in 5,000 miles.

6. Your car may be the second largest purchase in your life, but it is a money pit of a depreciating asset. This is why you always want to pay the lowest possible price. Let's face it within 10 years your car will be essentially worthless. There is absolutely no comparison to buying a home, which in 10 years will normally be worth 30 - 50% more than you paid for it, unless you make a real stupid decision.

7. I get totally pissed every time I try to buy a car and the salesman tries to play the psycology game, attempting to control the situation and keep you at their mercy. This is why people want to bargain the last cent of discount out of a dealer, because they know that they are being screwed with by the dealer and they return the favor.

Just read through all the posts of people here on theMustangSource who have or are tying to order 2005 Mustangs and they can't get any sort of good information out of their dealer sales people.

Sounds like we need to find that link to the article on Edmunds where the reporter went and got a couple jobs sellng cars to give us the real story from the other side.